Indian Army Artillery Programme

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-What are the main advantages of a towed gun system over a wheeled/tracked gun system in plains and particularly in modern fpv & loitering munition environment ?

-Which gun from IA inventory will ATAGS replace ?

- How long will Sharang be in service ?

- Is ATAGS our pion (because of its range) ?

- Is tyulpan more devastating than pion ?

- Does DRDO needs to work on a penicillin like system OR will it not fit in our ind-pak or indo-china scenario ?
Towed gun systems are for hills and IA wanted ATAGS under 18 tons because of bridges and towing vehicles in mountains. For plains any kind of artillery is struck duck if air superiority isn’t achieved. We have K9 vajra SPH for plains as well as mountains.
 
-What are the main advantages of a towed gun system over a wheeled/tracked gun system in plains and particularly in modern fpv & loitering munition environment ?

-Which gun from IA inventory will ATAGS replace ?

- How long will Sharang be in service ?

- Is ATAGS our pion (because of its range) ?

- Is tyulpan more devastating than pion ?

- Does DRDO needs to work on a penicillin like system OR will it not fit in our ind-pak or indo-china scenario ?
1. Towed systems are much cheaper to acquire and maintain.
Lighter footprint making it easier to deploy via air or trucks, especially in large flat terrains (like Punjab/Rajasthan plains).
Survivability (if dispersed): In a loitering munition environment, towed guns can be spread out and camouflaged better than large tracked platforms.
The downsides are slow deployment/mobility which isn't ideal if under drone or artillery threat.
Longer setup times: Makes them more vulnerable unless well-networked and camouflaged.


2. Which Gun Will ATAGS Replace in the Indian Army?
FH77B (Bofors 155mm/39 cal) and other legacy 105mm/130mm systems over time, especially with the push toward 155mm standardization.

3. How Long Will Sharang Be in Service?
Sharang is more like a stop-gap modernization. Likely to stay operational till late 2030s, possibly longer in reserve/secondary roles depending on how fast ATAGS and other 155mm platforms are inducted.

4. Is ATAGS Our “Pion”? (Because of Range)
Not exactly since Pion (2S7) is a 203mm heavy artillery system with strategic-level impact.
ATAGS is a 155mm gun which is more tactically flexible, but doesn’t match Pion’s shell weight or destructive power but ATAGS does have exceptional range (up to 48 km), so in Indian context, it's our longest-ranged field gun, not a true “Pion” equivalent.

5. Is Tyulpan More Devastating Than Pion?
Yes, in terms of destructive effect in close combat. Tyulpan (2S4) is a 240mm self-propelled mortar, capable of firing heavy HE, thermobaric, and even nuclear shells at short ranges. More devastating in urban or fortified area combat like bunkers, tunnels etc whereas Pion with longer range and larger shells, is better for counter-battery and deep strike.

6. Should DRDO Build a “Penicillin”-like System?

Highly useful in Indo-paki front for border counter-battery, where radars are jammed or targeted but challenging on the Indo-chinki front due to terrain masking and limited line of sight but still useful if integrated with UAVs/sensors.

Yes, India should develop a Penicillin-like system, especially to survive in GPS-denied/drone-heavy environments as radar and SIGINT are increasingly vulnerable to jamming.
 
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Lighter footprint making it easier to deploy via air or trucks, especially in large flat terrains (like Punjab/Rajasthan plains).
Survivability (if dispersed): In a loitering munition environment, towed guns can be spread out and camouflaged better than large tracked platforms.
The downsides are slow deployment/mobility which isn't ideal if under drone or artillery threat.
Longer setup times: Makes them more vulnerable unless well-networked and camouflaged
Thanks for replying and all great points. 18t ATAGS is impractical for deploying via helis, you can use c130 or c17 but then MArG or CEASAR can be too.
As I see it towed guns doesn't really have a considerable edge over mounted guns in plains which leave it to be used mainly in the mountains
Bharat forge's ULH, Garuda, MArG should interest IA and TGS 15t weight makes a lot of sense now. We should've gone for more Chinooks rather than chasing apache
Not exactly since Pion (2S7) is a 203mm heavy artillery system with strategic-level impact
What do you mean by strategic level impact
 

While I respect him for pushing the ATAGS and makes a logical reasoning of capping the order at 307 since they have limited mobility in the mountains due to weight, he just termed it as "govt's decision" for not going with additional M777 or saying Kalyani ULH was unproven or untested and it hasn't gone thru any trials but they're ready to induct Athos despite minimal trials
 
While I respect him for pushing the ATAGS and makes a logical reasoning of capping the order at 307 since they have limited mobility in the mountains due to weight, he just termed it as "govt's decision" for not going with additional M777 or saying Kalyani ULH was unproven or untested and it hasn't gone thru any trials but they're ready to induct Athos despite minimal trials
Not what he said. Atleast in this video. He said no one would touch Athos and it wouldn't clear trials.
 
Not what he said. Atleast in this video. He said no one would touch Athos and it wouldn't clear trials.
I'm not saying he said that about Athos but in general, the impression is Athos or any foreign system will never be put to the same rigorous testing ATAGS or any indigenous system had to go thru

He did say ULH is unproven but unless IA is willing to test it or issue a tender for light howitzers, how can anyone disregard it.

He also mentioned at the start that paki's Chinese made SH-15s' failed both in terms of strategic deployment and possible malfunctioning. While the later might be true, I'm not convinced by his response of why towed is better than MGS type platforms in mountainous terrains and that "shoot & scoot" is not applicable on that front
 


It was a great decision to allow testing facility for private sector by Manohar parikar . There are some vested interest groups and bureaucratic red tapes .. Now kalyani making lots of export to international market . Atleast 100 artillery guns have been exported to Armenia and a middle eastern country . Order includes atags , bharat 52 , marg etc .. Also received LOI from America for artillery canons .
 
While I respect him for pushing the ATAGS and makes a logical reasoning of capping the order at 307 since they have limited mobility in the mountains due to weight, he just termed it as "govt's decision" for not going with additional M777 or saying Kalyani ULH was unproven or untested and it hasn't gone thru any trials but they're ready to induct Athos despite minimal trials

Someone in the comments literally asked the question about the Kalyani ULH and this was the Lt Gen's reply.

nbbjj.webp

Even if we concede the ATAGS counter-argument, all of this👆 kind of argumentation still seems kind of sus and points to bureaucracies in all sectors(MoD, army, etc) not wanting to absorb desi products.
All I see from all sides is blame deflection to the other party.




Also, obligatory Pravin Sawhney hate. :rotflmao:

vfffffffv.webp
 

Just when you think you can't hate this arse h*le anymore, he somehow finds a way to make it even worse.
This entire video is full of so much falsehoods and bravado that it's painful to watch

MF literally compared the titanium barrel of M77 ULH with Steel barrel of PCL-181 just for circle jerking his boomer colleagues into believing how Chinese equipment failed.
Never seen a worse case of "muh china has never fought a real war" copium. Absolute disgrace of a person
 
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