Operation Sindoor and Aftermath

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Guynxdor said:
Shiv Aroor stated that he was personally briefed by the IAF, confirming that India had taken out 9 Pakistani aircraft, both in the air and on the ground.


View: https://x.com/shirobarks/status/1929568339526812143?s=46&t=s5Zjz3wgeVF4a5zNfD4EYA
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I think we as Indians should build think skins . I don't care how many they lost or we lost
I only care about the objectives. We can bomb Pakistan any place we want with impunity .

Lets give this attrition number a rest . At this point it is becoming comical . Accept your loses whatever they are and move on.
 

View: https://twitter.com/cbkwgl/status/1929247211592020043?s=19

Pakistan represents a mindset very rarely seen in geopolitics (and its not the only one). The country currently exists only to inflict pain on his neighbour with no concern for its subjects. In time it evolves to a position where it offers itself as a mercenary concern to anyone who wants to target that neighbour. It doesn't care about the losses, it doesn't care about the cost of retribution, it doesn't follow any rules of engagement and breaks every pact signed. It's sole aim is to inflict pain on the neighbour and get paid for it. And till the time that powerful country exists, this mercenary affair thrives. This is even worse than the Nizari Ismaili or the Assassin affair - they at least had specific targets. Here, its just total war to annihilation. And the only answer for this - inflict impossible pain on the mercenary concern and inflict it that repeatedly that the cost of affairs become really prohibitive. Bleeding hearts or half hearted measures of retaliation will not work. That will only be viewed upon as a just another oportunity to launch the next wave. And funding will anyways come for the next wave. And the world will be safe only if the next wave doesn't come.
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craigs said:
Most of our missiles use a combination of GPS, Glonass and Navic. It is impossible for something like Pakistan to jam all three especially Navic's military frequencies.

GPS/Glonass/Navis is only used to correct the INS drift.

Also, reg: "But plain INS guidance, even with best of ring laser gyros, will lead to a decent amount of drift that makes any "pinpoint" strikes unlikely." what is the factor that drift depends on?
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Drift is random, a consequence of errors accumulated over time.
GNSS jam resistant modules can just ignore ground based spoofers and jammers, so sub 2m accuracy can be achieved (likely more for military systems)

Azaad said:
What you're suggesting are guidance modules which in the case of LGBs would probably require man in the loop to continuously illuminate the target.

What about the physical limitations of the projectile itself ( fins ,other guiding vanes etc) leaving aside the propulsion part of it given the kind of accuracy claimed & the distances involved ?

Just for perspective, we're talking a missile or at any rate a projectile with a diameter of at least 12" fitting into an 18" opening . That's barely 3" clearance either side for a projectile assuming it's dead centre.
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Dont really need man in the loop always, like GNSS etc, but I agree that given the dimensions you quoted, the projectile fitting inside the vent is hard to believe, especially since it would be falling at an angle.

However, I think that as long as the projectile landed close to a vent/other unobstructed entry point to the bunker, and explosion would effectively neutralise it anyway
Physx32 said:
Do we have any indigenous 20mm CIWS in development? If not, the project must be immediately started. These will the last layer of defence against these low flying, fast quad-copters.

All our air and naval bases need to have such CIWS. I'm sure Faujeets will be working 24/7 to do a stunt like ukraine did.
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Worth it or nah? IMO, would be easier/cheaper and more effective to just improve the 30mm CWIS that we operate already.... the benefits will be easily transferred to navy too.

The truck borne abomination could be given a radar + EOTS , remove the truck attachment and turn it into a towed system with suspension that can be lowered down, will help with mitigating the obscene recoil of 5k rpm that the truck version looks ill equipped to handle.
 
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Biggest Gain of the operation is drawing Pakistan to our field of Strength.

We have drawn the Porkis into a long money spending spree . They will bleed money , every dollar that they have begged in last few years to buy costly, capable and working Air Defence Systems. Long range StandOff weapons like hypersonic A2G weapons, large cache of stealth kamakazie drones. They dont have domestic R&D , they don't have defence companies to manufacture them overnight.

In the end Reminds me of what US did to Soviet Union in Cold War Era. Mind you Soviet Union had Oil and Defence Manufacturing of enormous magnitude still they went broke.

Let the Porkis buy AEW platforms, AD systems, Submarines, Maritime Surveillance platforms etc, costly Satellite Intelligence for Drones to work (Even if Elon Musk gives them for free i don't care/they either sell their land or sovereignty to a Jew that is more than enough embarrassment ), 5th Gen Fighter platforms with long range standoff capability(All of which requires very costly maintenance and robust electronic infrastructure).

Bring it on Porkies. I am lovin this game of Chess. Indus water will keep this conflict hot and itching. All playing to india's advantage. I can see internal turmoil of Paxistani Awam growing and eating the Mullahas of Army.

Meanwhile slowly the whole nation of Bhartmata has woken up, every person on the street wants to contribute. Defence industry is itching to contribute, Startups are coming, brilliant Minds have taken pledge to build Aero-Engines not for sake of economy but because of personal patriotic emotion.

There is none more satisfactory sight - Than seeing a Paxistani being burnt by the Hindustani Mizzile, built by a Hindu Kafir. Next Brahmos should be released by our own Tejas MK2 centreline Belly. It should carry a paste of Pig Fat on Missile body with inscription "With love from Kafir".
Jai Hind
 
Brood Father said:
I think we as Indians should build think skins . I don't care how many they lost or we lost
I only care about the objectives. We can bomb Pakistan any place we want with impunity .

Lets give this attrition number a rest . At this point it is becoming comical . Accept your loses whatever they are and move on.
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Wwe effect , that's the name I have given this type of cognitive dissonance. I downed 5 of you jets , I shot down 9 of yours, I shot your precious 100 mil jet , mine is bigger etc. I don't think it impacts Indian armed forces, who focuses on mission objectives. It's primarily Pak armed forces and the jingoistic public in both sides.
 
Waanar said:
I'm not an optimistic person. You guys know it. I'll just put it forth before people start labeling this as cope.
I have a feeling he's saying this to make Pakistan a little more comfortable with the idea of attacking India.
Military personnel usually don't make such comments randomly. Coming from a CDS, it will definitely embolden Pakistan, at least on a moral level.
I would honestly love if we keep making comments which emboldens Pakistan further.

Takes the culpability of starting the war off of us and puts it on them.

Not at all convinced of this as of yet but I would suggest we run his comments through the rumination machine. I don't believe he is stupid but we'll have to wait and watch.
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I think something has definitely shifted. Maybe pakistan crossed some red line for the leadership of the American ungli finally pissed Modiji off, something has changed. I feel India has started taunting pakistan, previously unheard of.

OP Sindoor is not being let to fade away from public mind by continuous revoking of it by various means, speeches, and declaration and bytes. There's something that's cooking. Don't know exactly what.
 
chnvipgz said:
Some humour for 5th gen jet.


View: https://x.com/tejjubhaiyya/status/1929636093101854868?t=InlXtN6Y88didXMdskZ_rg&s=19
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Although loss of assets are an inevitable part of combat, I had hoped for zero loss of assets on the Indian side in this limited conflict with Pakistan. I hope that the Indian military is continually improving its capabilities in limited warfare. In any future engagement, I hope India will achieve its objectives with no loss of assets while inflicting maximum damage on military installations inside Pakistan.
 
Ya'll Nibbiars 1st and 5th are from their Nur Khan Air base and other facilities and 4th is BSF video of their own Rangers outpost, the rest are from Ukraine and the third is of a lone drone attack on a civilian residential compound in Amristar.

The Pakis are desperate.


View: https://x.com/KSingh_1469/status/1929645709848203710


View: https://x.com/SynthVidco_/status/1929648942129860891


View: https://x.com/SiddhantVa31973/status/1929761722316865630


View: https://x.com/AskPerplexity/status/1929645096682561730
 
let me try something new..

as some of you know, a few of us members have been trying to promote awareness on Indian knowledge systems. largely we did it as a parallel theoretical exercise. let's try to incorporate IKS in real life scenarios where possible.

IKS has a lot of literature on reading the reality correctly, since maya is a major subject in dharmic philosophy.

in this context, IKS has concepts of Pramana, Viveka, Nyaya, Satya. asked grok to run the pakistani claim of downing Indian jets thru the four tests.

note: if someone wants to get into discussions on specifics of IKS, have it in some other relevant thread. stick to op sindoor in this thread.

1. Pramana: Valid Means of Knowledge​


Pramana refers to the valid means of acquiring knowledge, including pratyaksha (direct perception), anumana (inference), shabda (reliable testimony), and upamana (comparison). Each can be applied to assess the Pakistani claim:

  • Pratyaksha (Direct Perception): Direct evidence, such as verifiable footage or physical wreckage, is critical. Pakistan’s military claimed to have shot down Indian jets, with some reports mentioning debris from a Mirage 2000 rather than Rafale jets. However, India’s Press Information Bureau (PIB) has denied losses of Rafale jets, and social media evidence, including videos, has been identified as old or misrepresented. Without clear, unmanipulated visual or physical evidence (e.g., wreckage conclusively tied to recent Indian jets), pratyaksha suggests the claim lacks direct substantiation.

    View: https://x.com/dawn_com/status/1927306135234638194
  • Anumana (Inference): Logical reasoning based on observed patterns can evaluate plausibility. Pakistan’s claim of downing five or six Indian jets, including Rafales, is inconsistent with India’s acknowledgment of losses without specifying numbers and their assertion that no Rafales were lost. The discrepancy in numbers (two, five, or six jets) and the lack of consistent evidence (e.g., debris or pilot captures) suggest exaggeration. Inference indicates the claim may be inflated for propaganda, as similar patterns of unverified claims emerged during Operation Sindoor.
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...lost-fighter-jets-in-recent-pakistan-conflict
    https://www.the-independent.com/asi...n-war-rafale-fighter-jet-downed-b2761216.html
  • Shabda (Reliable Testimony): Credible testimony comes from trustworthy sources. Indian officials, including the PIB, have refuted claims of Rafale losses, while a U.S. official noted confidence in at least two jets being downed, though without specifying types. Pakistan’s state-run media and military spokespersons have made claims, but these lack corroboration from neutral sources like Reuters, which reported Pakistan’s assertion without independent verification. Shabda prioritizes sources with a history of reliability, and the absence of consensus among reputable outlets weakens the claim’s credibility.
    https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/...kistan-downed-indian-jet-may-2025-2025-05-13/
    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025...ses-in-clash-with-pakistan-heres-what-he-said
  • Upamana (Comparison): Comparing the claim to similar incidents helps assess its validity. During the 2019 Balakot airstrike, Pakistan claimed to have shot down two Indian jets, with one pilot captured, later verified. In contrast, the current claim lacks evidence of captured pilots or consistent wreckage reports, resembling past instances of misinformation, such as debunked videos during Operation Sindoor. This comparison suggests the claim may follow a pattern of unverified propaganda.

    View: https://x.com/dawn_com/status/1927306135234638194

2. Viveka: Discriminative Wisdom​


Viveka involves distinguishing truth (satya) from illusion (maya) through critical analysis, emphasizing intent, verification, and emotional detachment:


3. Nyaya: Logical Analysis​


The Nyaya school provides a logical framework to evaluate claims through causal analysis, avoidance of fallacies, and consistency checks:
  • Examine Cause and Effect (Hetu): Nyaya emphasizes identifying the cause behind a claim. Pakistan’s assertion of downing jets lacks a clear causal chain, such as verifiable combat records or pilot accounts. The conflict’s context—triggered by armed clashes—suggests both sides engaged in air combat, but Pakistan’s claim of downing up to six jets, including Rafales, is not supported by proportional evidence (e.g., wreckage or captures). This suggests a possible intent to exaggerate military success.
    https://www.the-independent.com/asi...n-war-rafale-fighter-jet-downed-b2761216.html
    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025...ses-in-clash-with-pakistan-heres-what-he-said
  • Avoid Fallacies (Hetvabhasa): Nyaya warns against logical fallacies like hasty generalizations. Pakistan’s claim of downing six jets, contradicted by India’s acknowledgment of losses without specifics, may reflect overgeneralization from limited evidence (e.g., debris from one or two jets). Similarly, claims of Rafale losses are undermined by PIB’s clarification of Mirage 2000 debris, indicating a fallacy of misidentification.
  • Test Consistency: Nyaya requires claims to be internally and externally consistent. The Pakistani claim varies (two, five, or six jets) across sources, and India’s partial admission of losses contradicts the higher numbers. Inconsistent reports, combined with debunked social media evidence, suggest the claim lacks coherence and reliability.
    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025...ot-down-five-indian-fighter-jets-what-we-know

    View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJr_YSzQGS4

4. Satya: Commitment to Truth​


Satya emphasizes seeking and upholding truth, guiding the evaluation of claims through credible sources and evidence-based reasoning:

  • Scrutinize Source Credibility: Satya prioritizes trustworthy authorities. Pakistan’s state media and military claims lack corroboration from neutral sources, while India’s PIB and official statements deny Rafale losses, supported by expert analysis identifying Mirage 2000 debris. Neutral outlets like Reuters report Pakistan’s claims without independent verification, reducing their credibility. Satya favors sources with evidence-based records, tilting toward India’s position but noting its vagueness.
    https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/...kistan-downed-indian-jet-may-2025-2025-05-13/
  • Reject Sensationalism: The claim of downing six Indian jets, including high-value Rafales, appears sensationalist, especially given debunked videos and inconsistent numbers. Satya encourages rejecting exaggerated narratives, as seen in India’s dismissal of the six-jet claim and focus on verified losses, though specifics remain unclear.
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...lost-fighter-jets-in-recent-pakistan-conflict
  • Engage with Fact-Checking: Satya aligns with fact-checking practices. India’s PIB debunked Rafale loss claims, and international reports confirm limited evidence for Pakistan’s assertions. The absence of conclusive proof, such as pilot captures or consistent wreckage, supports a truth-seeking approach that questions the claim’s validity.

    View: https://x.com/dawn_com/status/1927306135234638194

Conclusion​


Applying pramana, viveka, Nyaya, and satya to Pakistan’s claim of shooting down Indian fighter jets reveals significant doubts about its veracity.

Pratyaksha highlights the lack of direct evidence like verifiable wreckage;
anumana suggests exaggeration based on inconsistent numbers;
shabda favors India’s denials due to stronger fact-checking;
and upamana points to patterns of past misinformation.

Viveka underscores the need to question biases and emotional manipulation,
while Nyaya’s logical analysis exposes fallacies and inconsistencies.

Satya prioritizes credible, evidence-based sources, leaning toward India’s position that Rafale losses are false, though exact losses remain unconfirmed.

The claim appears to be partially or wholly misinformation, likely amplified for propaganda, as seen in similar conflicts like Operation Sindoor.
 
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Azaad said:

View: https://twitter.com/cbkwgl/status/1929247211592020043?s=19
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India should build its military to a level where it can neutralize Pakistan’s air defences within 9–10 hours and inflict such overwhelming damage on Pakistani military installations that the Pakistan military is forced into a surrender, similar to 1971. While Pakistani military may still claim victory and their jaahil islamic awaam may continue to believe it, the scale of the outcome should be so decisive that even the most pro-Pakistan and anti-India international media outlets finds it impossible to twist the narrative in Pakistan’s favor.
 
GsfkHI-b0AApIGM

1748927109241.webp


View: https://x.com/mountain_rats/status/1929761781129650424
 
ezsasa said:
islamist conquests rarely have original ideas, they always try to replicate tactics and variations of tactics of previous islamist conquests.
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Except those Islamic conquerors were outsiders & weren't running on empty. These are imitation Islamic conquerors & have a powder keg lit up at home.

ezsasa said:
if you are in touch with the author of that post, check if he can contextualise his post from zia ul haq's point of view during his time with jordan. may be there are some lessons there.
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Got suspended a long time ago . Right now in read mode only on X. If you're on X you can approach him. He'd gladly undertake such an analysis . What's more he's pretty good at explaining historical processes !

Learnt a lot interacting with him when I was active on X . There's another handle by the name Nemets @Peter Nimitz who does so for a much more extensive range of topics across world history. Read him too if you're interested in this kind of thing.
 
It seems US is targeting India , 500% Tariffs if we procure Russian OIL , Seems EU also supporting this.
Turkey ,AzarB , China are against us and even our neighbors are not in good relation with us. Its testing time for us and if some internal conflict happens , then it would be more difficult. All this Indicates that we are arriving. If US really targets India with tariffs , India should retaliate. We should be thinking for parallel currency against USD . The non Invite of G7 also indicates that they only want money from India and do not want to see India progressing. I am of the view that aligning with china in selected sectors to create parallel systems on world stage to counter ICJ/UNSE/UN and others will help creating divide and will also help playing in both systems for achieving our Interests . tough times ahead!
 
Samaritan said:
It seems US is targeting India , 500% Tariffs if we procure Russian OIL , Seems EU also supporting this.
Turkey ,AzarB , China are against us and even our neighbors are not in good relation with us. Its testing time for us and if some internal conflict happens , then it would be more difficult. All this Indicates that we are arriving. If US really targets India with tariffs , India should retaliate. We should be thinking for parallel currency against USD . The non Invite of G7 also indicates that they only want money from India and do not want to see India progressing. I am of the view that aligning with china in selected sectors to create parallel systems on world stage to counter ICJ/UNSE/UN and others will help creating divide and will also help playing in both systems for achieving our Interests . tough times ahead!
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Tough times are gonna make tough men
The hate that Indians receive online has started to bleed in real world
We need to get our shit together first
 
Samaritan said:
It seems US is targeting India , 500% Tariffs if we procure Russian OIL , Seems EU also supporting this.
Turkey ,AzarB , China are against us and even our neighbors are not in good relation with us. Its testing time for us and if some internal conflict happens , then it would be more difficult. All this Indicates that we are arriving. If US really targets India with tariffs , India should retaliate. We should be thinking for parallel currency against USD . The non Invite of G7 also indicates that they only want money from India and do not want to see India progressing. I am of the view that aligning with china in selected sectors to create parallel systems on world stage to counter ICJ/UNSE/UN and others will help creating divide and will also help playing in both systems for achieving our Interests . tough times ahead!
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Actually seeing sindoor operation, it impacted physiology western world. They not able to digest hw eenndia concluded operation in just 3-4 days.
 
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