Operation Sindoor & Aftermath (43 Viewers)

[Azaad]

I think colonel bhat and his colleagues at capsindia probably think IAF crossed the IB and made their assessments. Otherwise I agree it's very difficult to pull off without a specialised armament + proper planning & visual guidance.

In that case he should have mentioned the platforms used and / or the armaments. Reasonable speculations about it within the bounds of the credible is also permissible.

See , lay people will read his article & accept his findings unquestioningly . People with better knowledge of the subject at hand like on fora such as ours will obviously raise questions or should raise questions instead of blindly accepting his word.

Otherwise what's the difference between inbreds to our west & us ?

 

[craigs]

Of course people like me read people with a reasonable degree of academic qualifications will avoid it . That's reflected in the choice of YT content one peruses , the reason algorithms never suggest such videos.

If you were dying wondering earlier why's it you're attracting such algorithms now you know.

No need to thank me. Always ready to help the underprivileged in life be it in monetary sense or intellectual abilities or both like in your case.

Hehehegehe. Even YouTube knows you wont be able to digest the information in that video. That is why it's algorithm never bothered to recommend it to you. Jo ghar aye Saraswati ko laath maare usko Kya hi bolein?

 

[Gyyaan]

View: https://x.com/detresfa_/status/1929559190286082123?s=46

Can anybody tell me why do we testfire so many brahmos?
The missile costs 4-5 million dollars ffs
What's the need to test fire brahmos when we have already test fired a lot of them.

 

[Dharmocrat]

Can anybody tell me why do we testfire so many brahmos?
The missile costs 4-5 million dollars ffs
What's the need to test fire brahmos when we have already test fired a lot of them.

Because the effectiveness of a weapon system is 90 % dependent upon having well trained crews.

100 simulations can't be the equivalent of one training launch of actual missile.

 

[Gyyaan]

Ya'll Pakis A** on fire.

View attachment 38172

Bechare har jagah hath pair maar rhe hai
Sat images ki bheek maang rhe hai

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

Already did so . Murid in Chakwal is 125 kms from the IB . However Nur Khan in Pindi is < 75 kms from the IB. For that kind of pin point accuracy you need FAs flying at < 50 kms distance.

In this case as I pointed out before we don't know the armaments used or the vectors carrying such armaments ( if the armament is known the platform doesn't matter . We can figure it out ) .

IAF's stated position is they didn't cross the IB. Put all these together & draw your own conclusions.

For perspective consider the assassination of Al Zawahiri . It was carried out using a relatively slow moving Hellfire missile minus the warhead which was suitably modified to carry sword like weapons fired by a drone at distances of probably around 30-40 kms .

Both the nature of the missile especially it's speed & the up close distance between the vector & target makes such accuracy possible.


View: https://youtu.be/OZKDSQxXjVY?si=F9yW-CukBKvQW4KC

I dont have the full context, but I cant be bothered to read through all the back and forth (sorry membraan), so heres my two cents on accuracy et cetera.

Only one ways to get "pinpoint" accuracy (i.e. difference between impact point and intended impact point <<<<<< blast radius) - Have some sort of localisation method (meaning, providde a reference that can continuously help correct projectile guidance)

This can be laser illuminator on target for LGBs and Hellfires, can be a seeker on bomb itself that can identify the target, can be strong, jam resistant GNSS, can be loitering munitions using AI for target ID and then homing onto it, etc etc.

But plain INS guidance, even with best of ring laser gyros, will lead to a decent amount of drift that makes any "pinpoint" strikes unlikely.

(PS: Minor point, but hellfire has a range of 8 km, so that launch was likely much closer than 40km even if the non explosive warhead sheds some weight off the missile.)

Also note, jam resistant GPS modules exist, which will ignore ground based jammers/spoofers... Could just be that Pakistan failed to jam GPS guidance on our missiles?

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

I dont have the full context, but I cant be bothered to read through all the back and forth (sorry membraan), so heres my two cents on accuracy et cetera.

Only one ways to get "pinpoint" accuracy (i.e. difference between impact point and intended impact point <<<<<< blast radius) - Have some sort of localisation method (meaning, providde a reference that can continuously help correct projectile guidance)

This can be laser illuminator on target for LGBs and Hellfires, can be a seeker on bomb itself that can identify the target, can be strong, jam resistant GNSS, can be loitering munitions using AI for target ID and then homing onto it, etc etc.

But plain INS guidance, even with best of ring laser gyros, will lead to a decent amount of drift that makes any "pinpoint" strikes unlikely.

(PS: Minor point, but hellfire has a range of 8 km, so that launch was likely much closer than 40km even if the non explosive warhead sheds some weight off the missile.)

Also note, jam resistant GPS modules exist, which will ignore ground based jammers/spoofers... Could just be that Pakistan failed to jam GPS guidance on our missiles?

See this for explainer on last line, context is irrelevant but he explains the basics of CRPA -
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iB2nGjULHso

 

[Azaad]

I dont have the full context, but I cant be bothered to read through all the back and forth (sorry membraan), so heres my two cents on accuracy et cetera.

Only one ways to get "pinpoint" accuracy (i.e. difference between impact point and intended impact point <<<<<< blast radius) - Have some sort of localisation method (meaning, providde a reference that can continuously help correct projectile guidance)

This can be laser illuminator on target for LGBs and Hellfires, can be a seeker on bomb itself that can identify the target, can be strong, jam resistant GNSS, can be loitering munitions using AI for target ID and then homing onto it, etc etc.

But plain INS guidance, even with best of ring laser gyros, will lead to a decent amount of drift that makes any "pinpoint" strikes unlikely.

(PS: Minor point, but hellfire has a range of 8 km, so that launch was likely much closer than 40km even if the non explosive warhead sheds some weight off the missile.)

Also note, jam resistant GPS modules exist, which will ignore ground based jammers/spoofers... Could just be that Pakistan failed to jam GPS guidance on our missiles?

See this for explainer on last line, context is irrelevant but he explains the basics of CRPA -
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iB2nGjULHso

What you're suggesting are guidance modules which in the case of LGBs would probably require man in the loop to continuously illuminate the target.

What about the physical limitations of the projectile itself ( fins ,other guiding vanes etc) leaving aside the propulsion part of it given the kind of accuracy claimed & the distances involved ?

Just for perspective, we're talking a missile or at any rate a projectile with a diameter of at least 12" fitting into an 18" opening . That's barely 3" clearance either side for a projectile assuming it's dead centre.

 

[asl001]

View: https://youtu.be/e7NkGf4Hnbo?si=hmVh-vKR3UtYsu7o

 

[Azaad]

View: https://twitter.com/cookiec75190643/status/1929400902617645267?s=19


View: https://twitter.com/cookiec75190643/status/1929404730402554174?s=19

More penny wise & pound foolish moves by our security establishment.

Someone should confront the ACM with this news. Normally he has a lot to say about everyone else's shortcomings . As it is we're short of squadrons. What happens if we lose a couple or more to such an attack across air bases?

 

[Azaad]

In that case he should have mentioned the platforms used and / or the armaments. Reasonable speculations about it within the bounds of the credible is also permissible.

See , lay people will read his article & accept his findings unquestioningly . People with better knowledge of the subject at hand like on fora such as ours will obviously raise questions or should raise questions instead of blindly accepting his word.

Otherwise what's the difference between inbreds to our west & us ?

View: https://twitter.com/DfIlite/status/1927649439549727049?s=19

Seems like a much more plausible explanation.



Check out the animation for the bunker buster on X as it has been disabled from viewing on external fora.

 

[craigs]

I dont have the full context, but I cant be bothered to read through all the back and forth (sorry membraan), so heres my two cents on accuracy et cetera.

Only one ways to get "pinpoint" accuracy (i.e. difference between impact point and intended impact point <<<<<< blast radius) - Have some sort of localisation method (meaning, providde a reference that can continuously help correct projectile guidance)

This can be laser illuminator on target for LGBs and Hellfires, can be a seeker on bomb itself that can identify the target, can be strong, jam resistant GNSS, can be loitering munitions using AI for target ID and then homing onto it, etc etc.

But plain INS guidance, even with best of ring laser gyros, will lead to a decent amount of drift that makes any "pinpoint" strikes unlikely.

(PS: Minor point, but hellfire has a range of 8 km, so that launch was likely much closer than 40km even if the non explosive warhead sheds some weight off the missile.)

Also note, jam resistant GPS modules exist, which will ignore ground based jammers/spoofers... Could just be that Pakistan failed to jam GPS guidance on our missiles?

Most of our missiles use a combination of GPS, Glonass and Navic. It is impossible for something like Pakistan to jam all three especially Navic's military frequencies.

GPS/Glonass/Navis is only used to correct the INS drift.

Also, reg: "But plain INS guidance, even with best of ring laser gyros, will lead to a decent amount of drift that makes any "pinpoint" strikes unlikely." what is the factor that drift depends on?

 

[Physx32]

View: https://twitter.com/cookiec75190643/status/1929400902617645267?s=19


View: https://twitter.com/cookiec75190643/status/1929404730402554174?s=19

More penny wise & pound foolish moves by our security establishment.

Someone should confront the ACM with this news. Normally he has a lot to say about everyone else's shortcomings . As it is we're short of squadrons. What happens if we lose a couple or more to such an attack across air bases?

Do we have any indigenous 20mm CIWS in development? If not, the project must be immediately started. These will the last layer of defence against these low flying, fast quad-copters.

All our air and naval bases need to have such CIWS. I'm sure Faujeets will be working 24/7 to do a stunt like ukraine did.

 

[Guynxdor]

Shiv Aroor stated that he was personally briefed by the IAF, confirming that India had taken out 9 Pakistani aircraft, both in the air and on the ground.


View: https://x.com/shirobarks/status/1929568339526812143?s=46&t=s5Zjz3wgeVF4a5zNfD4EYA

 

[Azaad]

View: https://twitter.com/Akash10j/status/1929350021557936502?s=19

 

[Waanar]

View: https://twitter.com/Akash10j/status/1929350021557936502?s=19

I'm not an optimistic person. You guys know it. I'll just put it forth before people start labeling this as cope.
I have a feeling he's saying this to make Pakistan a little more comfortable with the idea of attacking India.
Military personnel usually don't make such comments randomly. Coming from a CDS, it will definitely embolden Pakistan, at least on a moral level.
I would honestly love if we keep making comments which emboldens Pakistan further.

Takes the culpability of starting the war off of us and puts it on them.

Not at all convinced of this as of yet but I would suggest we run his comments through the rumination machine. I don't believe he is stupid but we'll have to wait and watch.

 

[Brood Father]

Shiv Aroor stated that he was personally briefed by the IAF, confirming that India had taken out 9 Pakistani aircraft, both in the air and on the ground.


View: https://x.com/shirobarks/status/1929568339526812143?s=46&t=s5Zjz3wgeVF4a5zNfD4EYA

I think we as Indians should build think skins . I don't care how many they lost or we lost
I only care about the objectives. We can bomb Pakistan any place we want with impunity .

Lets give this attrition number a rest . At this point it is becoming comical . Accept your loses whatever they are and move on.

 

[Azaad]

View: https://twitter.com/cbkwgl/status/1929247211592020043?s=19

Pakistan represents a mindset very rarely seen in geopolitics (and its not the only one). The country currently exists only to inflict pain on his neighbour with no concern for its subjects. In time it evolves to a position where it offers itself as a mercenary concern to anyone who wants to target that neighbour. It doesn't care about the losses, it doesn't care about the cost of retribution, it doesn't follow any rules of engagement and breaks every pact signed. It's sole aim is to inflict pain on the neighbour and get paid for it. And till the time that powerful country exists, this mercenary affair thrives. This is even worse than the Nizari Ismaili or the Assassin affair - they at least had specific targets. Here, its just total war to annihilation. And the only answer for this - inflict impossible pain on the mercenary concern and inflict it that repeatedly that the cost of affairs become really prohibitive. Bleeding hearts or half hearted measures of retaliation will not work. That will only be viewed upon as a just another oportunity to launch the next wave. And funding will anyways come for the next wave. And the world will be safe only if the next wave doesn't come.

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

Most of our missiles use a combination of GPS, Glonass and Navic. It is impossible for something like Pakistan to jam all three especially Navic's military frequencies.

GPS/Glonass/Navis is only used to correct the INS drift.

Also, reg: "But plain INS guidance, even with best of ring laser gyros, will lead to a decent amount of drift that makes any "pinpoint" strikes unlikely." what is the factor that drift depends on?

Drift is random, a consequence of errors accumulated over time.
GNSS jam resistant modules can just ignore ground based spoofers and jammers, so sub 2m accuracy can be achieved (likely more for military systems)

What you're suggesting are guidance modules which in the case of LGBs would probably require man in the loop to continuously illuminate the target.

What about the physical limitations of the projectile itself ( fins ,other guiding vanes etc) leaving aside the propulsion part of it given the kind of accuracy claimed & the distances involved ?

Just for perspective, we're talking a missile or at any rate a projectile with a diameter of at least 12" fitting into an 18" opening . That's barely 3" clearance either side for a projectile assuming it's dead centre.

Dont really need man in the loop always, like GNSS etc, but I agree that given the dimensions you quoted, the projectile fitting inside the vent is hard to believe, especially since it would be falling at an angle.

However, I think that as long as the projectile landed close to a vent/other unobstructed entry point to the bunker, and explosion would effectively neutralise it anyway

Do we have any indigenous 20mm CIWS in development? If not, the project must be immediately started. These will the last layer of defence against these low flying, fast quad-copters.

All our air and naval bases need to have such CIWS. I'm sure Faujeets will be working 24/7 to do a stunt like ukraine did.

Worth it or nah? IMO, would be easier/cheaper and more effective to just improve the 30mm CWIS that we operate already.... the benefits will be easily transferred to navy too.

The truck borne abomination could be given a radar + EOTS , remove the truck attachment and turn it into a towed system with suspension that can be lowered down, will help with mitigating the obscene recoil of 5k rpm that the truck version looks ill equipped to handle.

 

[sunnyv]

Biggest Gain of the operation is drawing Pakistan to our field of Strength.

We have drawn the Porkis into a long money spending spree . They will bleed money , every dollar that they have begged in last few years to buy costly, capable and working Air Defence Systems. Long range StandOff weapons like hypersonic A2G weapons, large cache of stealth kamakazie drones. They dont have domestic R&D , they don't have defence companies to manufacture them overnight.

In the end Reminds me of what US did to Soviet Union in Cold War Era. Mind you Soviet Union had Oil and Defence Manufacturing of enormous magnitude still they went broke.

Let the Porkis buy AEW platforms, AD systems, Submarines, Maritime Surveillance platforms etc, costly Satellite Intelligence for Drones to work (Even if Elon Musk gives them for free i don't care/they either sell their land or sovereignty to a Jew that is more than enough embarrassment ), 5th Gen Fighter platforms with long range standoff capability(All of which requires very costly maintenance and robust electronic infrastructure).

Bring it on Porkies. I am lovin this game of Chess. Indus water will keep this conflict hot and itching. All playing to india's advantage. I can see internal turmoil of Paxistani Awam growing and eating the Mullahas of Army.

Meanwhile slowly the whole nation of Bhartmata has woken up, every person on the street wants to contribute. Defence industry is itching to contribute, Startups are coming, brilliant Minds have taken pledge to build Aero-Engines not for sake of economy but because of personal patriotic emotion.

There is none more satisfactory sight - Than seeing a Paxistani being burnt by the Hindustani Mizzile, built by a Hindu Kafir. Next should be released by our own Tejas MK2 centreline Belly. It should carry a paste of Pig Fat on Missile body with inscription "With love from Kafir".
Jai Hind