Operation Sindoor & Aftermath (26 Viewers)

Brood Father said:
I think we as Indians should build think skins . I don't care how many they lost or we lost
I only care about the objectives. We can bomb Pakistan any place we want with impunity .

Lets give this attrition number a rest . At this point it is becoming comical . Accept your loses whatever they are and move on.
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Wwe effect , that's the name I have given this type of cognitive dissonance. I downed 5 of you jets , I shot down 9 of yours, I shot your precious 100 mil jet , mine is bigger etc. I don't think it impacts Indian armed forces, who focuses on mission objectives. It's primarily Pak armed forces and the jingoistic public in both sides.
 
SwordOfDarkness said:
Dont really need man in the loop always, like GNSS etc, but I agree that given the dimensions you quoted, the projectile fitting inside the vent is hard to believe, especially since it would be falling at an angle.
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Brahmos Land Attack is capable of verticle steep dive. It also has an IIR component in its seeker.
 
Waanar said:
I'm not an optimistic person. You guys know it. I'll just put it forth before people start labeling this as cope.
I have a feeling he's saying this to make Pakistan a little more comfortable with the idea of attacking India.
Military personnel usually don't make such comments randomly. Coming from a CDS, it will definitely embolden Pakistan, at least on a moral level.
I would honestly love if we keep making comments which emboldens Pakistan further.

Takes the culpability of starting the war off of us and puts it on them.

Not at all convinced of this as of yet but I would suggest we run his comments through the rumination machine. I don't believe he is stupid but we'll have to wait and watch.
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I think something has definitely shifted. Maybe pakistan crossed some red line for the leadership of the American ungli finally pissed Modiji off, something has changed. I feel India has started taunting pakistan, previously unheard of.

OP Sindoor is not being let to fade away from public mind by continuous revoking of it by various means, speeches, and declaration and bytes. There's something that's cooking. Don't know exactly what.
 
chnvipgz said:
Some humour for 5th gen jet.


View: https://x.com/tejjubhaiyya/status/1929636093101854868?t=InlXtN6Y88didXMdskZ_rg&s=19
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Although loss of assets are an inevitable part of combat, I had hoped for zero loss of assets on the Indian side in this limited conflict with Pakistan. I hope that the Indian military is continually improving its capabilities in limited warfare. In any future engagement, I hope India will achieve its objectives with no loss of assets while inflicting maximum damage on military installations inside Pakistan.
 
Ya'll Nibbiars 1st and 5th are from their Nur Khan Air base and other facilities and 4th is BSF video of their own Rangers outpost, the rest are from Ukraine and the third is of a lone drone attack on a civilian residential compound in Amristar.

The Pakis are desperate.


View: https://x.com/KSingh_1469/status/1929645709848203710


View: https://x.com/SynthVidco_/status/1929648942129860891


View: https://x.com/SiddhantVa31973/status/1929761722316865630


View: https://x.com/AskPerplexity/status/1929645096682561730
 
let me try something new..

as some of you know, a few of us members have been trying to promote awareness on Indian knowledge systems. largely we did it as a parallel theoretical exercise. let's try to incorporate IKS in real life scenarios where possible.

IKS has a lot of literature on reading the reality correctly, since maya is a major subject in dharmic philosophy.

in this context, IKS has concepts of Pramana, Viveka, Nyaya, Satya. asked grok to run the pakistani claim of downing Indian jets thru the four tests.

note: if someone wants to get into discussions on specifics of IKS, have it in some other relevant thread. stick to op sindoor in this thread.

1. Pramana: Valid Means of Knowledge​


Pramana refers to the valid means of acquiring knowledge, including pratyaksha (direct perception), anumana (inference), shabda (reliable testimony), and upamana (comparison). Each can be applied to assess the Pakistani claim:

  • Pratyaksha (Direct Perception): Direct evidence, such as verifiable footage or physical wreckage, is critical. Pakistan’s military claimed to have shot down Indian jets, with some reports mentioning debris from a Mirage 2000 rather than Rafale jets. However, India’s Press Information Bureau (PIB) has denied losses of Rafale jets, and social media evidence, including videos, has been identified as old or misrepresented. Without clear, unmanipulated visual or physical evidence (e.g., wreckage conclusively tied to recent Indian jets), pratyaksha suggests the claim lacks direct substantiation.

    View: https://x.com/dawn_com/status/1927306135234638194
  • Anumana (Inference): Logical reasoning based on observed patterns can evaluate plausibility. Pakistan’s claim of downing five or six Indian jets, including Rafales, is inconsistent with India’s acknowledgment of losses without specifying numbers and their assertion that no Rafales were lost. The discrepancy in numbers (two, five, or six jets) and the lack of consistent evidence (e.g., debris or pilot captures) suggest exaggeration. Inference indicates the claim may be inflated for propaganda, as similar patterns of unverified claims emerged during Operation Sindoor.
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...lost-fighter-jets-in-recent-pakistan-conflict
    https://www.the-independent.com/asi...n-war-rafale-fighter-jet-downed-b2761216.html
  • Shabda (Reliable Testimony): Credible testimony comes from trustworthy sources. Indian officials, including the PIB, have refuted claims of Rafale losses, while a U.S. official noted confidence in at least two jets being downed, though without specifying types. Pakistan’s state-run media and military spokespersons have made claims, but these lack corroboration from neutral sources like Reuters, which reported Pakistan’s assertion without independent verification. Shabda prioritizes sources with a history of reliability, and the absence of consensus among reputable outlets weakens the claim’s credibility.
    https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/...kistan-downed-indian-jet-may-2025-2025-05-13/
    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025...ses-in-clash-with-pakistan-heres-what-he-said
  • Upamana (Comparison): Comparing the claim to similar incidents helps assess its validity. During the 2019 Balakot airstrike, Pakistan claimed to have shot down two Indian jets, with one pilot captured, later verified. In contrast, the current claim lacks evidence of captured pilots or consistent wreckage reports, resembling past instances of misinformation, such as debunked videos during Operation Sindoor. This comparison suggests the claim may follow a pattern of unverified propaganda.

    View: https://x.com/dawn_com/status/1927306135234638194

2. Viveka: Discriminative Wisdom​


Viveka involves distinguishing truth (satya) from illusion (maya) through critical analysis, emphasizing intent, verification, and emotional detachment:


3. Nyaya: Logical Analysis​


The Nyaya school provides a logical framework to evaluate claims through causal analysis, avoidance of fallacies, and consistency checks:
  • Examine Cause and Effect (Hetu): Nyaya emphasizes identifying the cause behind a claim. Pakistan’s assertion of downing jets lacks a clear causal chain, such as verifiable combat records or pilot accounts. The conflict’s context—triggered by armed clashes—suggests both sides engaged in air combat, but Pakistan’s claim of downing up to six jets, including Rafales, is not supported by proportional evidence (e.g., wreckage or captures). This suggests a possible intent to exaggerate military success.
    https://www.the-independent.com/asi...n-war-rafale-fighter-jet-downed-b2761216.html
    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025...ses-in-clash-with-pakistan-heres-what-he-said
  • Avoid Fallacies (Hetvabhasa): Nyaya warns against logical fallacies like hasty generalizations. Pakistan’s claim of downing six jets, contradicted by India’s acknowledgment of losses without specifics, may reflect overgeneralization from limited evidence (e.g., debris from one or two jets). Similarly, claims of Rafale losses are undermined by PIB’s clarification of Mirage 2000 debris, indicating a fallacy of misidentification.
  • Test Consistency: Nyaya requires claims to be internally and externally consistent. The Pakistani claim varies (two, five, or six jets) across sources, and India’s partial admission of losses contradicts the higher numbers. Inconsistent reports, combined with debunked social media evidence, suggest the claim lacks coherence and reliability.
    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025...ot-down-five-indian-fighter-jets-what-we-know

    View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJr_YSzQGS4

4. Satya: Commitment to Truth​


Satya emphasizes seeking and upholding truth, guiding the evaluation of claims through credible sources and evidence-based reasoning:

  • Scrutinize Source Credibility: Satya prioritizes trustworthy authorities. Pakistan’s state media and military claims lack corroboration from neutral sources, while India’s PIB and official statements deny Rafale losses, supported by expert analysis identifying Mirage 2000 debris. Neutral outlets like Reuters report Pakistan’s claims without independent verification, reducing their credibility. Satya favors sources with evidence-based records, tilting toward India’s position but noting its vagueness.
    https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/...kistan-downed-indian-jet-may-2025-2025-05-13/
  • Reject Sensationalism: The claim of downing six Indian jets, including high-value Rafales, appears sensationalist, especially given debunked videos and inconsistent numbers. Satya encourages rejecting exaggerated narratives, as seen in India’s dismissal of the six-jet claim and focus on verified losses, though specifics remain unclear.
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...lost-fighter-jets-in-recent-pakistan-conflict
  • Engage with Fact-Checking: Satya aligns with fact-checking practices. India’s PIB debunked Rafale loss claims, and international reports confirm limited evidence for Pakistan’s assertions. The absence of conclusive proof, such as pilot captures or consistent wreckage, supports a truth-seeking approach that questions the claim’s validity.

    View: https://x.com/dawn_com/status/1927306135234638194

Conclusion​


Applying pramana, viveka, Nyaya, and satya to Pakistan’s claim of shooting down Indian fighter jets reveals significant doubts about its veracity.

Pratyaksha highlights the lack of direct evidence like verifiable wreckage;
anumana suggests exaggeration based on inconsistent numbers;
shabda favors India’s denials due to stronger fact-checking;
and upamana points to patterns of past misinformation.

Viveka underscores the need to question biases and emotional manipulation,
while Nyaya’s logical analysis exposes fallacies and inconsistencies.

Satya prioritizes credible, evidence-based sources, leaning toward India’s position that Rafale losses are false, though exact losses remain unconfirmed.

The claim appears to be partially or wholly misinformation, likely amplified for propaganda, as seen in similar conflicts like Operation Sindoor.
 
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Azaad said:

View: https://twitter.com/cbkwgl/status/1929247211592020043?s=19
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India should build its military to a level where it can neutralize Pakistan’s air defences within 9–10 hours and inflict such overwhelming damage on Pakistani military installations that the Pakistan military is forced into a surrender, similar to 1971. While Pakistani military may still claim victory and their jaahil islamic awaam may continue to believe it, the scale of the outcome should be so decisive that even the most pro-Pakistan and anti-India international media outlets finds it impossible to twist the narrative in Pakistan’s favor.
 
GsfkHI-b0AApIGM

1748927109241.webp


View: https://x.com/mountain_rats/status/1929761781129650424
 
ezsasa said:
islamist conquests rarely have original ideas, they always try to replicate tactics and variations of tactics of previous islamist conquests.
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Except those Islamic conquerors were outsiders & weren't running on empty. These are imitation Islamic conquerors & have a powder keg lit up at home.

ezsasa said:
if you are in touch with the author of that post, check if he can contextualise his post from zia ul haq's point of view during his time with jordan. may be there are some lessons there.
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Got suspended a long time ago . Right now in read mode only on X. If you're on X you can approach him. He'd gladly undertake such an analysis . What's more he's pretty good at explaining historical processes !

Learnt a lot interacting with him when I was active on X . There's another handle by the name Nemets @Peter Nimitz who does so for a much more extensive range of topics across world history. Read him too if you're interested in this kind of thing.
 
It seems US is targeting India , 500% Tariffs if we procure Russian OIL , Seems EU also supporting this.
Turkey ,AzarB , China are against us and even our neighbors are not in good relation with us. Its testing time for us and if some internal conflict happens , then it would be more difficult. All this Indicates that we are arriving. If US really targets India with tariffs , India should retaliate. We should be thinking for parallel currency against USD . The non Invite of G7 also indicates that they only want money from India and do not want to see India progressing. I am of the view that aligning with china in selected sectors to create parallel systems on world stage to counter ICJ/UNSE/UN and others will help creating divide and will also help playing in both systems for achieving our Interests . tough times ahead!
 
Samaritan said:
It seems US is targeting India , 500% Tariffs if we procure Russian OIL , Seems EU also supporting this.
Turkey ,AzarB , China are against us and even our neighbors are not in good relation with us. Its testing time for us and if some internal conflict happens , then it would be more difficult. All this Indicates that we are arriving. If US really targets India with tariffs , India should retaliate. We should be thinking for parallel currency against USD . The non Invite of G7 also indicates that they only want money from India and do not want to see India progressing. I am of the view that aligning with china in selected sectors to create parallel systems on world stage to counter ICJ/UNSE/UN and others will help creating divide and will also help playing in both systems for achieving our Interests . tough times ahead!
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Tough times are gonna make tough men
The hate that Indians receive online has started to bleed in real world
We need to get our shit together first
 
Samaritan said:
It seems US is targeting India , 500% Tariffs if we procure Russian OIL , Seems EU also supporting this.
Turkey ,AzarB , China are against us and even our neighbors are not in good relation with us. Its testing time for us and if some internal conflict happens , then it would be more difficult. All this Indicates that we are arriving. If US really targets India with tariffs , India should retaliate. We should be thinking for parallel currency against USD . The non Invite of G7 also indicates that they only want money from India and do not want to see India progressing. I am of the view that aligning with china in selected sectors to create parallel systems on world stage to counter ICJ/UNSE/UN and others will help creating divide and will also help playing in both systems for achieving our Interests . tough times ahead!
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Actually seeing sindoor operation, it impacted physiology western world. They not able to digest hw eenndia concluded operation in just 3-4 days.
 
TopWatcher said:
Actually seeing sindoor operation, it impacted physiology western world. They not able to digest hw eenndia concluded operation in just 3-4 days.
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correct, this angle needs to be probed.
unfortunately we don't have enough experienced people, who are well acquainted on gora mannerisms , who can get goras to speak their mind on this, without putting the gora speaker on the defensive.
 
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How long this ceasefire will go, as Amarnath yatra have started and as per int. Sources 40 to 50 Pigs have entered kashmir. What is the target for them when the family of a big pig is hoorrified. What comes next?
 
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