Operation Sindoor and Aftermath

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Master of Indus said:
Anyways, SU-57 is the best stop gap and they way it's coming out, it might surprise everyone. Let's not even talk about chinese junk like J-20 and J-35s, SU-57s will eat them alive. A short video on its capabilities!



View: https://youtu.be/s_nZ37VC7cM?si=bF0-LaZrfO-tcI-j
Click to expand...

If it's so good, why did the Russians place limited orders? Why is it that more than half of the manufactured aircraft are prototypes? Why is it that the IAF, which has been a large scale customer of Sukhoi, wasn't impressed with it's design way back in 2018 and publicly criticized it? What if they sell Su-57 to China too if they ordered it (which they will as soon as it's revealed that India has procured some just like they did with Su-30)? Is it worth panic buying a flawed product that can easily be compromised by the enemy by merely throwing some cash?
 
Migflug said:
Arsalan's POV in today's thread, which many seem to agree with. Reality finally dawning?
View attachment 38605
Click to expand...
so much word salad to realize the very simple fact that "pakistan has no ability to fight a full scale war". pakis are very optic driven in nature, the perception matters more than reality to them. Ukraine is doing something same with ruskies, every month or so they will conduct these "groundbreaking" operations against Russia, which would provide propaganda material to NAFO retards for few weeks , then things would go back to them losing territory bit and bit and being unable to stop russians from slowly creeping forward.
 
Migflug said:
Arsalan's POV in today's thread, which many seem to agree with. Reality finally dawning?
View attachment 38605
Click to expand...
I believe if IAF is able to able to threaten or take down their AEW&Cs when on station during next clash along with doing SEAD and DEAD, they will have a similar revelation and be in a even more dire situation.
 

View: https://youtu.be/QZBjTmp8onY?si=_4sEmXy_JVqzkqGX

Here's a nice video from China Observer who has turned out to be more jingo than all of here combined.

This video must be watched by all the Bhosdapillers, 50cent, wumao, Paki inbreds lurking here.

The utter humiliation of Pakis and Chinis is something that hasn't even dawned on most Indians who are busy debating about Rafale jets and shit. The reality will dawn eventually on everybody. It's a decisive military victory. The end. Period.
 
All those asking for India to review Su-57s should be classified as retards.

There is no way someone with that low of an IQ can contribute anything worthwhile to this forum.

All those mere Bua ka beta Russia are still larping while their overlord Putin is trying to sort which midget sized coffin he needs to be buried in.
 
A #Pakistani local from #Bahawalpur claims that #PakistanArmy & ISI had intel suggesting #India would avoid targeting #Bahawalpur, which may have led to a false sense of security. However, it turned out to be a major intelligence failure. According to the claim, Indian agents were reportedly active in the area, and Indian intelligence had precise information about the return dates of certain key targets to Bahawalpur (India conducted strikes right after targets returned )


View: https://x.com/defencealerts/status/1931396935262376098
 
With regards to J35 acquisition scenario, I was having some fun with ChatGPT.
What do you guys think about these scenarios.
Mods please move this post elsewhere if not required here.


Here’s a mock scenario in words for Formation 1: Distributed Sensor–Shooter Grid (Counter-Stealth BVR Trap)—a defensive strategy designed to trap 5th generation stealth fighters like the J-35 using India’s current and near-future platforms:

🎯 Objective:​

To counter stealthy enemy aircraft before they can strike targets deep inside Indian territory, by decoupling sensors (forward assets) from shooters (rear assets) while maintaining BVR dominance and minimizing exposure.

📍 Formation Overview​

✅ 1. Frontline (~30–50 km from LOC/IB): Sensor Layer​

AssetRole
Unmanned Kiran Mk2Acts as bait and radar emitter; mimics Tejas/MiG signature
Lakshya dronesDecoys and potential jammers; swarm for saturation
Tejas Mk1A (Radar-Off)IRST-based passive tracking; transmits info via datalink
  • These assets loiter at low altitude.
  • Kiran and Lakshya provoke enemy sensors or missile launches.
  • Tejas observes heat signatures and flight profiles without emitting radar.

✅ 2. Midline (~50–100 km behind frontline): Sensor Fusion + Air Denial Layer​

AssetRole
Ghatak UCAVsPassive ISR or SEAD (air defense suppression); can strike enemy radars or SAMs
Akash-NG / QRSAMProtect the midline and intercept any penetrating ALCMs or cruise missiles
Passive radar systems (like VHF or multistatic)Detect stealth aircraft through reflection anomalies
  • This zone consolidates forward sensor data.
  • Can lock targets spotted by IRST or passive sensors and coordinate shooters.
  • Ghatak acts as a persistent hunter if enemy stealth tries to flank.

✅ 3. Rearline (~150–200 km behind frontline): Shooter Layer​

AssetRole
Su-30MKIEquipped with N011M Bars radar and Astra Mk2 missiles for long-range engagement
RafaleEquipped with RBE2 AESA radar and Meteor missiles
AWACS (Netra/PHALCON)Maintains air picture, links sensor and shooter networks
  • These aircraft remain well within Indian airspace.
  • They fire BVR missiles using targeting data provided by frontline/midline IRST or Ghatak sensors.
  • If the enemy goes active (uses radar), they are immediately tracked and targeted.

🎮 Scenario in Action​

  1. J-35 strike group enters Indian airspace from the west using low-observable profile.
  2. Unmanned Kirans + Lakshya drones are picked up by J-35 sensors; J-35 may think it's a real strike group.
  3. J-35 activates radar or fires a BVR missile — giving away its location.
  4. Tejas IRST picks up missile heat plume + stealth aircraft silhouette; forwards data to Ghatak and AWACS.
  5. Rafale and Su-30MKI calculate firing solution using sensor fusion, fire Meteor/Astra Mk2.
  6. J-35 has to evade while being tracked passively, losing initiative.
  7. If it turns back or survives, Ghatak UCAVs follow to intercept or conduct SEAD against cover positions.

🧠 Tactical Highlights​

  • Enemy stealth advantage is negated using passive sensors and decoys.
  • Shooter aircraft stay safe, far behind in protected airspace.
  • If the enemy fires first, it triggers a missile trap without exposing manned aircraft.
  • UCAVs (Ghatak) add persistent coverage and surprise retaliation potential.

🛡️ Backup Options​

  • If enemy launches stand-off munitions, Akash-NG and QRSAMs provide layered defense.
  • Passive radar arrays or balloon-mounted VHF arrays can support early detection.
Click to expand...


Here’s a detailed mock scenario for Formation 2: Hammer & Anvil—a doctrine-based ambush setup meant to lure stealthy or superior aircraft into a kill zone using decoy swarms, low-observable assets, and rear-positioned heavy hitters.

🎯 Objective:​

To use deception, baiting, and swarm saturation to pull 5th-gen stealth aircraft like the J-35 into a trap, where they can be overwhelmed by multi-pronged detection and destroyed by long-range missile systems from the rear.

📍 Formation 2: Hammer & Anvil – Swarm Ambush + Long-Range Kill​

🧭 Zone Layout​

Code: 
[ Enemy Airspace ]   [ Forward Line (~0–30km) ]  [ Kill Box (~50–100km) ]   [ Rearline (~150–200km) ]
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    Kiran Mk2 + Lakshya drones     Tejas Mk1A IRST +         Rafale + Su-30MKI + Ghatak UCAVs
                    (decoy swarm)                  Passive radar             (Meteor + Astra Mk2 + SEAD)

📌 Assets and Roles by Zone​

✅ 1. Forward Line (~0–30 km from border): Bait & Confusion Layer​

AssetRole
Kiran Mk2 (Unmanned)Simulate active radar signals to mimic fighter patrols
Lakshya dronesSwarm ahead in erratic formation to simulate active maneuvering aircraft
Decoy Jammers (Optional)Broadcast misleading EM signatures or spoofed RCS values
  • Objective: Fool stealth aircraft or SEAD platforms into wasting missiles, turning on radar, or closing in.

✅ 2. Kill Box (~50–100 km inside territory): Trap Layer​

AssetRole
Tejas Mk1AIRST tracking, radar-off, hidden low behind terrain masking
Passive RadarPicks up stealth wake patterns or RCS bloom during engagement
Low-power emittersBrief radar pulses to triangulate without long exposure
  • As stealth aircraft enter this zone, Tejas and sensors track in real-time.
  • Aircraft do not engage; they merely pass coordinates to rearline shooters.

✅ 3. Rearline (~150–200 km): Hammer Strike Layer​

AssetRole
Rafale (High Alt, Flanks)Meteor BVR missile engagement at high closure speed
Su-30MKI (Center Altitude)Astra Mk2 missile launch, radar-on for lock if required
Ghatak UCAVsPost-engagement pursuit, SEAD if enemy attempts suppression
AWACS (Netra or PHALCON)Maintain situational awareness, feed targeting data
  • Meteor and Astra Mk2 launched from two vectors: frontal and flanking.
  • Stealth aircraft get sandwiched with no escape corridor.

🎮 Scenario in Action​

  1. J-35 group spots Lakshya drones and unmanned Kirans ahead. Mistaking them for combat patrol, it fires a SEAD missile or radar sweeps.
  2. Radar emission reveals partial location. Tejas IRSTs confirm heat signature.
  3. Passive sensors triangulate, mark J-35 group in real time.
  4. As J-35 closes in or tries to escape, Meteor and Astra Mk2 missiles are launched from Rafales and Su-30MKIs.
  5. Ghatak UCAVs follow-up any survivors or strike J-35’s support/relay aircraft (e.g., tankers or jammers).

🧠 Tactical Strengths​

FeatureTactical Advantage
Swarm deceptionConfuses stealth pilot into revealing position or engaging too early
Layered kill zonesForces stealth aircraft into a bottle-necked strike zone
Multi-directional missilesIncreases no-escape zone from different vectors
Non-radar trackingPrevents early warning to stealth aircraft
Ghatak pursuitPersistent post-strike engagement capability

🧩 Strategic Role​

  • Excellent for forward defense, especially during pre-emptive strike deterrence.
  • Also suitable for counter-offensive ambushes, especially when stealth aircraft try deep air interdiction.
Click to expand...

Here’s a mock scenario for Formation 3: Elastic Defense + Counterstrike, tailored to counter a stealth-heavy deep strike—like a J-35 strike package entering with stand-off weapons under electronic and radar cover.

🎯 Objective:​

Let the 5th-gen strike group partially penetrate into a defended airspace and then trap and counterattack using cross-domain tracking (IRST, passive radar) and multi-axis engagement—without depending solely on stealth or expensive 5th-gen fighters.

📍 Formation 3: Elastic Defense + Counterstrike​

🧭 General Layout:​

Code: 
[ Enemy Airspace ]      [ Border Edge (~0–30km) ]     [ Midline (~50–100km) ]     [ Rearline (~150–200km) ]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 J-35 Strike Package ->  Tejas + MiG-29 + Kirans       Su-30MKI + Netra AWACS      Rafale (Flank), SAMs, Ghatak UCAVs
                         (passive mode)               (High Alt, radar-off)        (Meteor & Astra Mk2)
                                                       Ground VHF Radar             Loiter/strike

📌 Assets & Roles by Zone​

✅ 1. Border Edge (~0–30 km from border): Passive Sensor Trap​

AssetRole
Tejas Mk1A + MiG-29Radar-off; rely on IRST, terrain masking, and data-link input
Unmanned Kiran Mk2Simulate fighter signature; bait for J-35 or decoy SEAD attempts
Ground Radars (passive)Detect stealth aircraft’s radar emissions or wake tracks
  • These fighters do not actively engage.
  • They create a soft front, encouraging stealth aircraft to proceed deeper.

✅ 2. Midline (~50–100 km behind border): Intercept & Fire Zone​

AssetRole
Su-30MKI + AWACSTrack and coordinate BVR strikes from high altitude
Ground-based VHF radarDetect stealth at long range by radar wavelength advantage
QRSAM / Akash-NGProtect midline from cruise missile or PGMs
  • Su-30s use radar passively or intermittently, get cues from IRST/AWACS.
  • If J-35 fires a stand-off missile, the defense net activates to intercept.
  • Targets passed to rearline Rafales and UCAVs.

✅ 3. Rearline (~150–200 km deep): Hammer Strike & Flanking Ambush​

AssetRole
Rafales (flanking)Meteor-equipped, high-altitude, approach from a side arc
Ghatak UCAVsStrike follow-up or SEAD mission after J-35 is engaged
Akash-NG batteriesEngage low-flying cruise missiles or PGM before target
  • Rafales are held in reserve, then surprise-attack from another vector once J-35 is lured deeper.
  • UCAVs provide persistent coverage or hunt radar emissions.
  • Layered SAM network handles any standoff A2G threats.

🎮 Scenario in Action​

  1. J-35 group enters at low altitude from western sector, masked by jamming and low-RCS.
  2. Border assets (Tejas/MiG-29/Kirans) quietly track using IRST, avoid confrontation.
  3. J-35 fires stand-off PGMs or cruise missiles at midline targets.
  4. VHF radar + AWACS pick up emissions or movement of J-35 and missiles.
  5. SAMs intercept cruise missiles, data passed to Su-30MKI & Rafales.
  6. Rafales, previously circling ~80–100 km away on a flank, fire Meteors/BVR from an unexpected angle.
  7. Su-30MKIs fire Astra Mk2s from high altitude; kill box forms around J-35.
  8. Ghatak UCAVs, fed coordinates via data-link, loiter and attack any retreating stealth or SEAD escorts.

🧠 Tactical Highlights​

  • J-35 is baited into overconfidence by a weak-looking forward line.
  • Multiple sensors and shooters activate only when a high-probability target is confirmed.
  • Rafales and Ghatak strike from unexpected vectors, compressing the escape zone.
  • J-35 stealth nullified by passive tracking, decoy provocation, and radar triangulation.

🧩 Advantages of Elastic Defense:​

FeatureBenefit
Decoupled layersPreserves key fighters & UCAVs for key strikes
Passive-first approachPrevents early detection by enemy stealth
Multi-vector missile trapsStealth aircraft cannot escape linearly
UCAVs offer persistenceNo fatigue risk, loiter long, cheap to lose
Layered SAM zonesCounter stand-off or cruise missile barrages
Click to expand...
 
I saw a lot of Su57 maango saar replies. Note that Su57 is an older generation stealth design- it was designed in late 80s. Its weapons bay is not modular to accommodate the range of weapons IAF uses. There are two variants actually- the second one is a bit more “recent” like in early 2000s design but still outdated. It also lacks plug-and-play electronics, certain modern aviation tech etc. I doubt we will pursue Su57. AMCA is futuristic and more modular based on latest gen aviation platform technology. Weapons can be switched in and out with ease. Cockpit dashboards are more accurate etc. AMCA is the only way to go.
 
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