AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (28 Viewers)

[ArjunMK1A]

Another thing, Su-57 ain't gonna come quick, Russian will play hardball with access to microsystems and there would probably be interference from chonga.

You buy SU57 and you get CAASTA. This time it is 100% sure.

 

[vin pahadi (kumauni)]

We need a bit deeper redesign considering AMCA won't be here till next decade or 15yrs

We can fit a variety of weapons in IWB if AMCA fuselage is widen. Such as BrahMos, Rudram or future hypersonic weaponsView attachment 38215View attachment 38216View attachment 38217

Above examples are only for illustration and not a 1:1 comparable

A deep redesign can increase weight but I don't think it will be much, may be 5%-7%. Any aircraft is a trade off of design choices after all. And with technological progress in jet engines you always fit a more powerful engine in future

why we need our 5 genration fighter carry brahmos A like approx 8 meter length nd 3500 kg supersonic missile in its internal weapon bay? for that we hv some 40+ su 30 mki to carry nd launch these missiles from safer 600-800 km range. we can launch brahmos from ground trucks nd naval ships also to assist air force. for other 4 nd 4.5 genration fighters, we will develop smaller brahmos ng. brahmos nd upcoming hypersonic cruise missile (in internal bay) only need if we want to cross tibbet nd launch brahmos to coastal nd north side of china. but its dangerous for 5 genration to penetrate deep inside of chinese air space. its better to develop ground/ship based conventional ballistic missiles with 5000 km range nd cruise missiles with 2500-3000 km range to hit deep inside chinese land. or we can develop a bigger ghatak (B2 bomber type) in future to hv internal bays, which can carry cruise missiles inside.
Rudram 1 is also lengthy anti radiation missile near 5.5 meter height. so it also cant fit in AMCA supposed 4.5 meter internal bay. good thing is we hv rudram 2 (300 km range) nd rudram 3 (500 km range) anti radiation missiles. so AMCA can carry them in their hardpoints nd release them from far distance. later it can carry on its mission in stealthy mode, by its interanl BVR missiles or SAAW type ground missiles.

 

[liberalredditor]

You buy SU57 and you get CAASTA. This time it is 100% sure.

Thats why i love indigenous dalali, zyada se zyada kya hi hoga?? Apni psu delivery delay kar degi

 

[redpanda]

You buy SU57 and you get CAASTA. This time it is 100% sure.

What option do we have? F-35? I do not think USA is willing to sell it to us, since we have S-400. Even if they sell us there is the issue of it becoming a hangor queen, because of no way of integration with our systems. Then there is also the typical complexity involved with G2G deal too. No chance of getting F-35 for another 7-8 years. Pre negotiation for negotiation will take 1-2 years. No chance of getting F-35 before 2033-35. My assumption is even if we make a deal for it, it is most certainly happening around 2027-28.

 

[angryindian]

Nothing new, IAF is screwed up for foreseeable future.

There is no commitment from MoD itself. Government apathy is going on. Every deal is going with scrutiny so Babus can save some 50 cents. At the same time we buy overpriced products without batting an eye.

As of now, UCAF (Ghatak) is still not sanctioned. So don't expect Ghatak anytime before 2030. MWF will be coming only by 2029. Again this depends on how fast HAL is closing GE F414 Deal. MRFA is another clownshow, when we can done the same G2G for Rafales. AMCA being AMCA is highly Dicey bet, we are trying to find an Engine Partner for an 120KN thrust class. Now if the engine partner is not decided, then the program will face scrutiny by IAF itself. (Classic HAL\DRDO overpromise and underdeliver).


Only real thing we can do is to order 97 Tejas MK1A which can support the fleet for few years before we sanctioned something like MRFA (Again I am worried that we may never going to integrate the Indian Weapons in Rafale), where we bite the bullet and order the planes with inflated cost.

The Tejas MK1A and even MK2 cannot compensate for 5th-generation fighters, as they are not designed to operate in highly contested airspace.

We are now in a situation where we lack the capability to counter an enemy attack, even from a single front, let alone two. If this does not warrant a declaration of a national state of emergency, I don’t know what will.

We have no choice left. The government must cut funding from health, education, and social welfare, and impose an additional cess to fund the program, ensuring the process is accelerated by at least five years.
Meanwhile, the production rate of critical missiles should be increased.

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

Jut went through this video


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4FJ25vNCug&t=1735s

If someone like Vishnu Som is sounding the alarm, it means we are in very serious trouble.

Losing our technical edge to Pakistan would severely compromise our national security, sovereignty, and territorial integrity.

The problem is further compounded by India’s inability to procure 5th-generation fighters from abroad. The US will not supply the F-35 until India abandons the S-400, and Russia’s production capacity is hampered due to the Ukraine war. Neither is in a position to provide India with fighters on an urgent basis.

Furthermore, Vishnu Som warns that the AMCA, expected in 2035, should meet the technical specifications of 2035, not 2025. In cricketing terms, achieving this is equivalent to a newcomer scoring a century on their debut.

They (defence journalists) were supposed to sound alarm a decade back, actually 3 decades back in 1990s when Russia started Su-57 & China started J-20.
But 44yo Shiv Aroor was in school & 50yo Vishnu Som was in college.
Today, by vitue of their own actions, there is nothing special about these old defence journalists.
Members on forums & YouTubers are much better.

These people ran "video of FHD video" of AI171 crash for many days, just for speculations & TRP, what a shame!!!

Few months back, they called AMCA as "Advanced MULTI-COLOR Combat Aircraft"

These journalists never do their homework. They don't know even the exterior parts working properly, basic design, the type of switches & buttons in cockpit.
They just bring in 10 people & run a discussion show with no progressive output.
They only focus on cost, timeline, numbers of jets, politics, that's it.
Having joined the top media houses they get priviledge to ride on some jets.

Watching videos of aircraft maintenance, documentaries, air crash investigations, videos of certain good pilots, is actually educating.

 

[redpanda]

The Tejas MK1A and even MK2 cannot compensate for 5th-generation fighters, as they are not designed to operate in highly contested airspace.

We are now in a situation where we lack the capability to counter an enemy attack, even from a single front, let alone two. If this does not warrant a declaration of a national state of emergency, I don’t know what will.

We have no choice left. The government must cut funding from health, education, and social welfare, and impose an additional cess to fund the program, ensuring the process is accelerated by at least five years.
Meanwhile, the production rate of critical missiles should be increased.

Are Bhai tu shaant hoja. Ye sab kya bake Jaa rahe ho? National emergency declare kardo? All you seriously lack how complex it is run a government. I might sound harsh but all looks halwa to arm chair expert like us, but things behind the curtains aren't that easy. Same for IAF/ADA/DRDO folks. They have to deal with a lot of things we don't see. It is very easy to point finger at them for us without understanding the complexity of the circumstances in which things happen behind the curtains. I have frustration against IAF/HAL/MoD but I don't think it is as easy as to just declare national state of emergency in panic and import or faststrack everything violating every norms and safety standards just because your adversary got a fancy toy. Look my friend developing technology takes time. You don't panic and suddenly induct prototypes just because your enemy got some weapons. You have to make it work.

 

[liberalredditor]

What option do we have? F-35? I do not think USA is willing to sell it to us, since we have S-400. Even if they sell us there is the issue of it becoming a hangor queen, because of no way of integration with our systems. Then there is also the typical complexity involved with G2G deal too. No chance of getting F-35 for another 7-8 years. Pre negotiation for negotiation will take 1-2 years. No chance of getting F-35 before 2033-35. My assumption is even if we make a deal for it, it is most certainly happening around 2027-28.

Tejas mk2 has amca subsystems as claimed many times, so its better to go all in with mwf. Its electronics can cater j35. And f35 and su57 both are imported trash.

 

[eastern_bhartiya]

The Tejas MK1A and even MK2 cannot compensate for 5th-generation fighters, as they are not designed to operate in highly contested airspace.

We are now in a situation where we lack the capability to counter an enemy attack, even from a single front, let alone two. If this does not warrant a declaration of a national state of emergency, I don’t know what will.

We have no choice left. The government must cut funding from health, education, and social welfare, and impose an additional cess to fund the program, ensuring the process is accelerated by at least five years.
Meanwhile, the production rate of critical missiles should be increased.

They don't need to cut funding from any of these stuff and let's say we double our spending on defence, it still won't fix much, money will not solve organisational rigidity, see if something as simple as artillery can get bogged down in procurement shitshow, then it's not a money issue, it a administrative issue.

I have already made a post , but govt basically wasted like 3 years in attempt to get pvt jv for amca, where they issued unrealistic demands that were impossible to meet, this is the kind of clownery that goes in these projects, Kaveri progress got stalled because gormint throught muricans will play fair and deliver all engines like good boys.

 

[ArjunMK1A]

What option do we have? F-35? I do not think USA is willing to sell it to us, since we have S-400. Even if they sell us there is the issue of it becoming a hangor queen, because of no way of integration with our systems. Then there is also the typical complexity involved with G2G deal too. No chance of getting F-35 for another 7-8 years. Pre negotiation for negotiation will take 1-2 years. No chance of getting F-35 before 2033-35.

We are not getting F35. US never claimed they are selling F35. Don't know who started this rumour mill. At max you get is an F15EX Silent Eagle as an alternative. Or 786th gen F21.

The only solution is to build AD System density to deter PLAAF Planes for next 10 years. Meanwhile try to figure out what we need to do with IAF.

One possible solution is to concentrate on 4.5th Gen Jets production and purchase. Should bite the bullet and pay for 114 MRFA since message is clear that TASL will be the production partner. Just spring some Atmanirbhar bharat joomla. Finalize the F414 Deal and try to get the MWF Production faster. Order the 97 MK1A planes.

If possible get ready to do extra purchase of SU 30 Platform itself.

 

[redpanda]

We are not getting F35. US never claimed they are selling F35. Don't know who started this rumour mill. At max you get is an F15EX Silent Eagle as an alternative. Or 786th gen F21.

The only solution is to build AD System density to deter PLAAF Planes for next 10 years. Meanwhile try to figure out what we need to do with IAF.

One possible solution is to concentrate on 4.5th Gen Jets production and purchase. Should bite the bullet and pay for 114 MRFA since message is clear that TASL will be the production partner. Just spring some Atmanirbhar bharat joomla. Finalize the F414 Deal and try to get the MWF Production faster. Order the 97 MK1A planes.

If possible get ready to do extra purchase of SU 30 Platform itself.

Yeah I think it is better to do G2G with Frenchs. Because I only see MRFA as time waste tbh. Nobody else is winning that.

 

[liberalredditor]

I would say the problem is there in IAF to begin with. They don't understand the concept of iterative development. They want the best in the world like insta Maggie noodles. Now people might say, they need more squadrons, so we should import here. But let me tell you, have you seen how imports goes on India? It's not just an Indian side issue tbh. Foreign vendors also scam us a lot. Look at the French how many years they have taken to even integrate our weapons. Imports are not quick either. Negotiations always takes it sweet time, then induction, training etc.

IAF babooz never have serious interest in indigenous projects. IN can make things goes it's way then why not IAF? It is simply because a certain section IAF babooz like foreign maal over homegrown stuff. So MoD's lethargy is not a bad thing for them. They will eventually be able to get those sweet sweet imports, which by the time arrives won't be enough lmao. Take example of AWACs, IAF babooz have been very stingy for years when it comes to negotiation with Airbus. Somehow no, seriousness on that front, even though they have audacity to cry at HAL. They are equally responsible for all the mess up we see.

I see you always say correct and factual things

Iterative development was always ignored by our govt. They want 50 top of the line at once and not 100 continuous line production with iterations.
This is the very basic flaw in our procurement which is now haunting us because porks are acquiring j35. All our laughing at chowmein fighters would go down the drain when it shows the power of tech espionage.

We had enough budget since the beginning but we spend on unnecessary things and that too lavishly like the mq9b, what extraordinary extraterritorial it has that we dont have?? By the time mq9b comes we could have built a whole iterative line of tapas and archer ng with even more tough electronics integrated with our own weaponry.

They dont spend on the right thing. The flaw 101, not funding the drdo and getting them test equipments, then do rr that indigenous systems are late and we want latest electronics ( tejas mk1 foc and mk1a demand saga). Then cry drdo cannot build kaveri. Then cry drdo cannot make a good gun on time. Then cry hal cannot deliver mk1a because you iaf babooz kept so many requirements at the end moment in front of ada that all testing phase restarted with new electronics

 

[redpanda]

They don't need to cut funding from any of these stuff and let's say we double our spending on defence, it still won't fix much, money will not solve organisational rigidity, see if something as simple as artillery can get bogged down in procurement shitshow, then it's not a money issue, it a administrative issue.

I have already made a post , but govt basically wasted like 3 years in attempt to get pvt jv for amca, where they issued unrealistic demands that were impossible to meet, this is the kind of clownery that goes in these projects, Kaveri progress got stalled because gormint throught muricans will play fair and deliver all engines like good boys.

Yeah the only solution is fixing the procurement policies. Hopefully DAP 2025 fixes some of those problems. But they need to completely overhaul the system eventually.

 

[liberalredditor]

We are not getting F35. US never claimed they are selling F35. Don't know who started this rumour mill. At max you get is an F15EX Silent Eagle as an alternative. Or 786th gen F21.

The only solution is to build AD System density to deter PLAAF Planes for next 10 years. Meanwhile try to figure out what we need to do with IAF.

One possible solution is to concentrate on 4.5th Gen Jets production and purchase. Should bite the bullet and pay for 114 MRFA since message is clear that TASL will be the production partner. Just spring some Atmanirbhar bharat joomla. Finalize the F414 Deal and try to get the MWF Production faster. Order the 97 MK1A planes.

If possible get ready to do extra purchase of SU 30 Platform itself.

In dogfight or a2a combat with 5th gen fighters, a dense ad system wouldnt work. What would work is a 5th gen or near level electronics which can prevent any jamming or spoofing of that level. 5th gen fighter is the game of electronics superiority, ew superiority. Rafale can control the j35 till the time we get out mk2 and amca, but 36 rafales wouldnt be sufficient to counter them on both the sides, we will need another 36 or 54 to control j35

 

[angryindian]

Are Bhai tu shaant hoja. Ye sab kya bake Jaa rahe ho? National emergency declare kardo? All you seriously lack how complex it is run a government. All looks halwa to arm chair expert like us, but things behind the curtains aren't that easy.

India is a country that faces an existential threat. Two of our neighbours are demanding a whopping 200,000 sqr km of our area(and possibly more) and one of them has already stated it's objective of dismembering our country.To achieve that goal, they are actively training separatists, terrorists, and insurgent armies within their territory and sending them across the border to attack our soldiers and civilians, which have taken the lives of over 30,000+ people in over three decades

One of them has amassed so much military hardware that even matching them would be near impossible. The other is so hyperbelligerent that it will not miss a chance to launch a full-scale attack on us the day it achieves technological superiority over us.

So what do you want? Ignore everything and continue business as usual?


Perhaps you may not know, but India was in a state of emergency for much of the 60's and 70's, courtesy of both these nations.

 

[Spitfire IX]

They don't need to cut funding from any of these stuff and let's say we double our spending on defence, it still won't fix much, money will not solve organisational rigidity, see if something as simple as artillery can get bogged down in procurement shitshow, then it's not a money issue, it a administrative issue.

I have already made a post , but govt basically wasted like 3 years in attempt to get pvt jv for amca, where they issued unrealistic demands that were impossible to meet, this is the kind of clownery that goes in these projects, Kaveri progress got stalled because gormint throught muricans will play fair and deliver all engines like good boys.

+ GTRE could not get Kaveri to work. 10 years go by and GTRE still do not have the infrastructure to complete the project themselves, do they?

 

[A Chauhan]

Fly AMCA with your rillit Idi egies. should hve

India is incapable of making a TF that comes anywhere near the technology of Amerishart/Britshit engines.

Perhaps in 20-30 years if it pumps vast amounts of money into the project. In 20-30 years US + UK will have moved forward 20-30 years. Remember that when India has its own Indiashit engine for AMCA around 2045-2055 (if starts spending billions of USD a year equivalent from today).

As if in the next 20-30 years US+UK are going to create extraterrestrial engine which will do many things apart from producing thrust and electricity. Chand pe jaane wala engine laga daloge kya?

 

[Spitfire IX]

As if in the next 20-30 years US+UK are going to create extraterrestrial engine which will do many things apart from producing thrust and electricity. Chand pe jaane wala engine laga daloge kya?

My point: US, UK, France are several decades ahead now in TF technology. Might be further ahead/less far ahead in 2050. Further if India does not invest heavily in TF technology, less if it does. India's choice.

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

As if in the next 20-30 years US+UK are going to create extraterrestrial engine which will do many things apart from producing thrust and electricity. Chand pe jaane wala engine laga daloge kya?

As Bob lazar said, USA got UFOs at AREA-51 & S-4, helped by aliens.

They'll create this:



BTW, i suspect that F-47 might look partially similar to this, minus the gravity engine ofcouse.

 

[dr.defence]

Let me tell you something when you were a kid there was no AMCA, there was MCA. AMCA came into existence when FGFA failed. And MCA became AMCA. No point in doing blackpilling. Because what will happen will happen. This is the nth time I have seen similar generic tooter level rant (I heard about AMCA when I was a kid....) about AMCA here.

Also somehow this kind of rant often made by certain folks who think we should rather panic import F35/Su-57.

Respected sir,
As per my source of information (Wikipedia ) Amca was launched as a parallel project to FGFA with a feasibility study starting in October 2010.
Further more on your accusation of me saying this to support import of F35/ su57. I just want to clarify that I am a die hard supporter I indegenous MIC and have no doubt in capablities of neither our indegenous weapons nor our scientists.
But I understand that with so many such people around us with hidden agenda for pushing foreign weapons imports it is hard to differentiate who is genuine and who is disguised .

But my point is that I am just fed up with this delaying of project when we have both human competence and technology . We some how still find a ninja technique to delay the project whether by eternal trials, gsqr changes ,manufacturer delays,no ccs clearance and what not .
Just see how turks and Koreans who started so late have at least something flying(now don't you dare think that I will push for kaan/KF21 imports) and we are still struck for SPV selection.

This is my point our projects get delayed due to comparatively less difficult problems (like not finding a private player for manufacturing) instead we should fly a prototype first and while it is in testing decide the manufacturer but instead for this we endup a project of national importance by 2 years and similarly for gef414 tejas mk2 (a very capable and important project get delayed by 3 years .
On point of turkey and Korea I too understand that they could do this fast because of NATO technology access but still I think we could have done better .
Hope you understand my point and please don't call me a foreign import support/peddler(anti national in other words). I have great support for indegenous tech I just want these to leave drawing boards and dominate the skies. Thank you