Indian Infrastructure & Discussion (6 Viewers)

[haldilal]

View: https://x.com/haldilal/status/1937519582249673001

 

[haldilal]

View: https://x.com/haldilal/status/1937735662075322658

 

[haldilal]

View: https://x.com/haldilal/status/1937760881821003937


View: https://x.com/haldilal/status/1937761703636218360

 

[haldilal]

View: https://x.com/haldilal/status/1937793622927405289

 

[haldilal]

View: https://x.com/haldilal/status/1937859034360455519

 

[haldilal]

View: https://x.com/haldilal/status/1938088555341033932

 

[haldilal]

View: https://x.com/haldilal/status/1938121461300121805

 

[liberalredditor]

Mumbai metro line 6 update - some more piers were painted in pink but as of real construction, 0 progress since april

Very bad quality work near powai lake and iit powai stretch

 

[eastern_bhartiya]

View: https://youtu.be/UYzbgJFc3o0?feature=shared

Not a fan of this guy, but points are sadly true af, parts of indian cities and urban clusters are just straight up bad, water logging on roads,waste piling up in footpaths and whole lot.

Point he makes is, our municipal and city level corporations need more autonomy and money to improve these stuff. Imo just removing trash and fixing water logging alone will make these places look good

 

[notaname]

View: https://youtu.be/UYzbgJFc3o0?feature=shared

Not a fan of this guy, but points are sadly true af, parts of indian cities and urban clusters are just straight up bad, water logging on roads,waste piling up in footpaths and whole lot.

Point he makes is, our municipal and city level corporations need more autonomy and money to improve these stuff. Imo just removing trash and fixing water logging alone will make these places look good

This new trope of more autonomy will fix everything is like saying bring a lion to human populated places and let it roam free, it's only going to kill nothing else.

And in municipality more money doesn't mean better services if that was the case we would be seeing better services in Mumbai and some other cities.
The first thing which needs to be done is fix the corruption, whenever you call them to fix drainage they will first demand extra money and even then will do sub-standard work if no money is given they will not come, the problems our cities face is not of money it's of corruption first.

They have enough money for fixing drainage and foothpaths or even traffic police to fix the traffic situation but they don’t bother.

There needs to be accountability and that will solve some of our problems.

 

[ezsasa]

View: https://youtu.be/UYzbgJFc3o0?feature=shared

Not a fan of this guy, but points are sadly true af, parts of indian cities and urban clusters are just straight up bad, water logging on roads,waste piling up in footpaths and whole lot.

Point he makes is, our municipal and city level corporations need more autonomy and money to improve these stuff. Imo just removing trash and fixing water logging alone will make these places look good

he is just following his commie cult's SOP, which is to sow doubts,discontent and anxieties among the masses, so that his political class can come to power. when it comes to solving problems, their political class are even worse than other parties.

before modi i used to watch his ilk's expert discussions on health, water, infra, banking, monetary policy, macro economics, electricity etc. at that time because of UPA backing, there was no alternative opinion either. his tribe had complete monopoly over intellectual discourse and executive actions.

now after watching modi govt attending to the same set of legacy issues, either solving or stabilising a lot of those legacy issues, i can confidently say his ilk were no where close to solving anything. in this past decade, their reluctance to even acknowledge problems that are solved tells us they were not interested in solving problems in the first place. his ilk's expertise is limited to propaganda and gaining power, not solving problems.

yes, local government financing is an issue that needs to be solved. various cities are experimenting. those who are wishing for local government financial reforms, should also be ready for increased cost of living in those cities or towns. meaning if the efforts start in earnest today, right when we are retired it will be in effect.

 

[eastern_bhartiya]

he is just following his commie cult's SOP, which is to sow doubts,discontent and anxieties among the masses, so that his political class can come to power. when it comes to solving problems, their political class are even worse than other parties.

before modi i used to watch his ilk's expert discussions on health, water, infra, banking, monetary policy, macro economics, electricity etc. at that time because of UPA backing, there was no alternative opinion either. his tribe had complete monopoly over intellectual discourse and executive actions.

now after watching modi govt attending to the same set of legacy issues, either solving or stabilising a lot of those legacy issues, i can confidently say his ilk were no where close to solving anything. in this past decade, their reluctance to even acknowledge problems that are solved tells us they were not interested in solving problems in the first place. his ilk's expertise is limited to propaganda and gaining power, not solving problems.

yes, local government financing is an issue that needs to be solved. various cities are experimenting. those who are wishing for local government financial reforms, should also be ready for increased cost of living in those cities or towns. meaning if the efforts start in earnest today, right when we are retired it will be in effect.

I'm not a fan of him, but I am interested in that particular problem, cause it's actively giving ammo to wignat inbreds for "muh shithole" point. Plus it's a problem that really isn't an issue of money, it's an issue of adminstration.

Plastic waste management in many parts are practically non existent, in some cases municipality will even just dump collected garbage in waterways. It's a problem that has to be addressed eventually.

He is not wrong to say that, these little things makes avg indian think his life hasn't improved despite economic issues being resolved.

 

[redpanda]

I'm not a fan of him, but I am interested in that particular problem, cause it's actively giving ammo to wignat inbreds for "muh shithole" point. Plus it's a problem that really isn't an issue of money, it's an issue of adminstration.

Plastic waste management in many parts are practically non existent, in some cases municipality will even just dump collected garbage in waterways. It's a problem that has to be addressed eventually.

He is not wrong to say that, these little things makes avg indian think his life hasn't improved despite economic issues being resolved.

A great counterpoint to this argument of more money to municipalities will fix this is Swachha Bharat programme. There was a lot of autonomy and fund given to municipalities in it. It worked very well initially but then failed because of the corruption and lethargy in municipalities. They were showered with Money for cleaning cities yet they didn't even increased salary of the sanitary workers, didn't even procure better equipments for those guys despite being given money for it, etc. I can speak for my own town, the chairperson and his ilk used all that money to just fill the coffers.

 

[eastern_bhartiya]

A great counterpoint to this argument of more money to municipalities will fix this is Swachha Bharat programme. There was a lot of autonomy and fund given to municipalities in it. It worked very well initially but then failed because of the corruption and lethargy in municipalities. They were showered with Money for cleaning cities yet they didn't even increased salary of the sanitary workers, didn't even procure better equipments for those guys despite being given money for it, etc. I can speak for my own town, the chairperson and his ilk used all that money to just fill the coffers.

Accountability is another issue here, work and result based promotion should be a thing ,or atleast babus and corporators should be punishable for their ineptitude.

 

[redpanda]

Accountability is another issue here, work and result based promotion should be a thing ,or atleast babus and corporators should be punishable for their ineptitude.

Still a large chunk of the corruption is done by elected individuals lmao. They don't fear anything because municipality elections are joke to them. Our people just vote anyone. And they also behave really stupid sometimes. The current chairperson here who is from BJD has such a vendetta on last guy from BJP that he removed every dustbin installed by him. Cut fund for every programme push under him...citing stupid reasons. These kinds of shitty politics happens there in almost every municipality..

 

[ezsasa]

I'm not a fan of him, but I am interested in that particular problem, cause it's actively giving ammo to wignat inbreds for "muh shithole" point. Plus it's a problem that really isn't an issue of money, it's an issue of adminstration.

Plastic waste management in many parts are practically non existent, in some cases municipality will even just dump collected garbage in waterways. It's a problem that has to be addressed eventually.

He is not wrong to say that, these little things makes avg indian think his life hasn't improved despite economic issues being resolved.

commies are experts in creating issues out of anything, public should have awareness on what issue to chase and what not to chase.

core of the issue is cash flow.

local governments (municipal corporations) are technically as powerful as state and central governments. we don't notice it, since most of the public especially the urban folks tend to focus on central and state gormints. there is a clear demarcation of powers and revenue flows between central, state and local governments. local governments rely on property tax, water tax, establishment tax , tickets for parks, shops, entertainment spots etc, not directly on your income tax/GST money. and how much we pay property tax, about 1-4 rs per sq foot annually, meaning folks who are paying about 4000 rs on property tax per year are expecting utilities like singapore from their municipal corporation.

these revenues they collect are nowhere close to what they need to sustain operations,so they depend on grants and loans from state and centre. for example : a km of urban road costs anywhere between 1.5 cr to 5 cr, depending on utilities like sewage, underground electricity the road plan is supposed to be incorporated with. go to your municipal corporation's annual report/accounts and check their revenue, grants and expenditure. they will no way be close to what they need, check what is the cost of garbage cleaning tender for your city as well.

He is not wrong to say that, these little things makes avg indian think his life hasn't improved despite economic issues being resolved.

these supposed little things cost 3-4 times the national infra spend, meaning if nation wide central gormint infra spend is costing 1 trillion $ for a decade long phase, updating municipal corporation level infra to latest urban standards will easily cost 4 trillion $ atleast.

if someone really does manage to solve this local municipality related issue nation wide, this fellow will move on to next set of issue for gaslighting the public. that's his business/revenue model.

let me know if i missed anything. my data is outdated, there can't be generic opinions on this topic, every city has it's own dynamic.

 

[ArjunMK1A]

commies are experts in creating issues out of anything, public should have awareness on what issue to chase and what not to chase.

core of the issue is cash flow.

local governments (municipal corporations) are technically as powerful as state and central governments. we don't notice it, since most of the public especially the urban folks tend to focus on central and state gormints. there is a clear demarcation of powers and revenue flows between central, state and local governments. local governments rely on property tax, water tax, establishment tax , tickets for parks, shops, entertainment spots etc, not directly on your income tax/GST money. and how much we pay property tax, about 1-4 rs per sq foot annually, meaning folks who are paying about 4000 rs on property tax per year are expecting utilities like singapore from their municipal corporation.

these revenues they collect are nowhere close to what they need to sustain operations,so they depend on grants and loans from state and centre. for example : a km of urban road costs anywhere between 1.5 cr to 5 cr, depending on utilities like sewage, underground electricity the road plan is supposed to be incorporated with. go to your municipal corporation's annual report/accounts and check their revenue, grants and expenditure. they will no way be close to what they need, check what is the cost of garbage cleaning tender for your city as well.


these suppose little things cost 3-4 times the national infra spend, meaning if nation wide central gormint infra spend is costing 1 trillion $ for a decade long phase, updating municipal corporation level infra to latest urban standards will easily cost 4 trillion $ atleast.

if someone really does to manage to solve this local municipality related issue nation wide, this fellow move on to next set of issue for gaslighting the public. that's his business/revenue model.

let me know if i missed anything. my data is outdated, there can't be generic opinions on this topic, every city has it's own dynamic.

In chennai our property tax is hovering around 2k i believe. And here avg house sizes is 2k -3k sq ft. Also entire area is upper middle class. But the property tax is too low for an corporation to function at good capacity.

 

[dr.defence]

commies are experts in creating issues out of anything, public should have awareness on what issue to chase and what not to chase.

core of the issue is cash flow.

local governments (municipal corporations) are technically as powerful as state and central governments. we don't notice it, since most of the public especially the urban folks tend to focus on central and state gormints. there is a clear demarcation of powers and revenue flows between central, state and local governments. local governments rely on property tax, water tax, establishment tax , tickets for parks, shops, entertainment spots etc, not directly on your income tax/GST money. and how much we pay property tax, about 1-4 rs per sq foot annually, meaning folks who are paying about 4000 rs on property tax per year are expecting utilities like singapore from their municipal corporation.

these revenues they collect are nowhere close to what they need to sustain operations,so they depend on grants and loans from state and centre. for example : a km of urban road costs anywhere between 1.5 cr to 5 cr, depending on utilities like sewage, underground electricity the road plan is supposed to be incorporated with. go to your municipal corporation's annual report/accounts and check their revenue, grants and expenditure. they will no way be close to what they need, check what is the cost of garbage cleaning tender for your city as well.


these supposed little things cost 3-4 times the national infra spend, meaning if nation wide central gormint infra spend is costing 1 trillion $ for a decade long phase, updating municipal corporation level infra to latest urban standards will easily cost 4 trillion $ atleast.

if someone really does manage to solve this local municipality related issue nation wide, this fellow will move on to next set of issue for gaslighting the public. that's his business/revenue model.

let me know if i missed anything. my data is outdated, there can't be generic opinions on this topic, every city has it's own dynamic.

I agree with you sir on most of the points but not all problems are dependent on cash flows. Some apparently unsolvable problems can be solved by taking small steps and those to not requiring money just better use of thing that God gave us (brain) or by will of actually solving the problem and better public behaviour .
I will site example of 3 cities which I have lived in till now 2 in rajasthan 1 in mp.
In my home town we lived in one of the posh colonies known to have residence of several officers and in vicinity to officers colony. Initially when we settled there roads were of higher standards than most of the city but still after a new road was built after few years and within 20 days of that new road being built it was dug up entirely to lay water pipelines now the colony had worst road in the city now people opted longer alternative paths to bypass that and this condition stayed for 2-3 years. But when the mla of nearby city and than ex mp and recent mp( she was out of power but still very influential her family had 6-7 mla in the nearby area) candidate bought a house in colony the roads were restored to brand new condition within days. So this shows utter mismanagement of resources and knee jerk response when someone overpowering you comes problems get solved in minutes ,similar episode where a road was approved and built within 7 days because elections where approaching and members of nearby colony said to jilaparishad adhyaksh that they will vote him only if he builds the road.

Example 2:- city of my maternal grandparents (my nanihal) had no public parks or no veiw points in city) for years. But after great public demand municipality converted a abandoned peice of land having small temples and used as taxi stands and planted grass some influential people and businessman gave grants got Wall built around it now it have bridge a small ponds Chanda from nearby shop keepers help in building bhagat singh chowk in main market and a veiw point (very elegant sorry I don't have pictures to share) near railway station now the city is very beatiful similarly a dried up pond and landfill was converted into park and now the pond is filled with water and 100s of people come there to exercise (under amrita bharat scheme) so basically a place which disgusted people(nearby property owners were upset about the landfill) become busy public park.

Example 3 :- int he city of mp in which I live the road are very old but still in very good condition despite 4-5 months od daily rain because they are rcc roads which have high one time cost but have long life unlike which new roads in district headquarter of rajasthan look similar to their earlier ones (filled with pot holes) within months because they are bituminous roads.
Further there was a pond (on the road) downthe road from my ancestral house in village just because the locals refused grampachayt proposal to built drains adjacent to house thinking it will damage the house but when after years my uncle agreed them to make drains now there is no water logging and it is the beat street of village and locals by their own money installed a gate and peoples who visit village once a while can't recognize it as same . Similarly public dustbin installed where removed because people of nearby houses apposed thinking it will spread infection ,now dustbin is removed the garbage still lies there I guess that improves immunity.
So small measures can bring major improvement and most us Will agree that we don't wish for world class urban infra (which is obviously expensive as you said) we just want basic human condition which can be achieved without much investment.

Sorry for this long paragraph and thank you for investing your valuable time .
On a lighter note why all of sudden this economic theead transformed into single LANDA rent thread 0n women's and marriage just chill guys you all will find deserving better halves
Thanks.

 

[ezsasa]

I agree with you sir on most of the points but not all problems are dependent on cash flows. Some apparently unsolvable problems can be solved by taking small steps and those to not requiring money just better use of thing that God gave us (brain) or by will of actually solving the problem and better public behaviour .
I will site example of 3 cities which I have lived in till now 2 in rajasthan 1 in mp.
In my home town we lived in one of the posh colonies known to have residence of several officers and in vicinity to officers colony. Initially when we settled there roads were of higher standards than most of the city but still after a new road was built after few years and within 20 days of that new road being built it was dug up entirely to lay water pipelines now the colony had worst road in the city now people opted longer alternative paths to bypass that and this condition stayed for 2-3 years. But when the mla of nearby city and than ex mp and recent mp( she was out of power but still very influential her family had 6-7 mla in the nearby area) candidate bought a house in colony the roads were restored to brand new condition within days. So this shows utter mismanagement of resources and knee jerk response when someone overpowering you comes problems get solved in minutes ,similar episode where a road was approved and built within 7 days because elections where approaching and members of nearby colony said to jilaparishad adhyaksh that they will vote him only if he builds the road.

Example 2:- city of my maternal grandparents (my nanihal) had no public parks or no veiw points in city) for years. But after great public demand municipality converted a abandoned peice of land having small temples and used as taxi stands and planted grass some influential people and businessman gave grants got Wall built around it now it have bridge a small ponds Chanda from nearby shop keepers help in building bhagat singh chowk in main market and a veiw point (very elegant sorry I don't have pictures to share) near railway station now the city is very beatiful similarly a dried up pond and landfill was converted into park and now the pond is filled with water and 100s of people come there to exercise (under amrita bharat scheme) so basically a place which disgusted people(nearby property owners were upset about the landfill) become busy public park.

Example 3 :- int he city of mp in which I live the road are very old but still in very good condition despite 4-5 months od daily rain because they are rcc roads which have high one time cost but have long life unlike which new roads in district headquarter of rajasthan look similar to their earlier ones (filled with pot holes) within months because they are bituminous roads.
Further there was a pond (on the road) downthe road from my ancestral house in village just because the locals refused grampachayt proposal to built drains adjacent to house thinking it will damage the house but when after years my uncle agreed them to make drains now there is no water logging and it is the beat street of village and locals by their own money installed a gate and peoples who visit village once a while can't recognize it as same . Similarly public dustbin installed where removed because people of nearby houses apposed thinking it will spread infection ,now dustbin is removed the garbage still lies there I guess that improves immunity.
So small measures can bring major improvement and most us Will agree that we don't wish for world class urban infra (which is obviously expensive as you said) we just want basic human condition which can be achieved without much investment.

Sorry for this long paragraph and thank you for investing your valuable time .
On a lighter note why all of sudden this economic theead transformed into single LANDA rent thread 0n women's and marriage just chill guys you all will find deserving better halves
Thanks.

the first example you cited is second order effects of cash flow, the reason they dig up roads a few months after laying them is primarily because it costs more to lay ducts for utilities upfront along with the roads, it's cheaper to dig, put the pipe and redo the asphalt.

in ayodhya redevelopment, they have done this utility ducts along with roads. for a small town like ayodhya, as of last year total redevelopment cost estimate as per master plan is 30,000 cr. . that kind of investment, only a few cities in India can recover the cost.

 

[eastern_bhartiya]

the first example you cited is second order effects of cash flow, the reason they dig up roads a few months after laying them is primarily because it costs more to lay ducts for utilities upfront along with the roads, it's cheaper to dig, put the pipe and redo the asphalt.

in ayodhya redevelopment, they have done this utility ducts along with roads. for a small town like ayodhya, as of last year total redevelopment cost estimate as per master plan is 30,000 cr. . that kind of investment, only a few cities in India can recover the cost.

Then what kind of solution is there ? Are gonna wait till small cities get enough money (god knows when),
another thing I might add is many indian cities and towns utterly lack any kind of park and roaming space.