Indian Air Force: News & Discussions (48 Viewers)

[Corvus Splendens]

Such tall talks
Till now 2 regiments of S400 are pending.

Give them a week, they'll bundle in the Okhotnik too

 

[Sanglamorre]

Russkies really want the money

Yeah, after all they're fighting a war.

Neither can they maintain the tempo of delivery they are claiming, nor can they complete the integration as they're saying.

The dragging on war will compel them to try squeeze more and more dollars for the integration and delivery etc.

One missile on whatever factory they make those engines in, and our supply chain goes up in smoke.

 

[Corvus Splendens]

Yeah, after all they're fighting a war.

Neither can they maintain the tempo of delivery they are claiming, nor can they complete the integration as they're saying.

The dragging on war will compel them to try squeeze more and more dollars for the integration and delivery etc.

One missile on whatever factory they make those engines in, and our supply chain goes up in smoke.

Forget delivery, they don't have the luxury of building jack shit for us right now. The best and only offer they can make is license production deals with full ToT. They won't give up AL-51 hot cores, but the rest of the Su-57 (airframe, electromechanical systems, export grade avionics that'll be replaced, etc.) they will have to give away, for us to even consider it.

The Su-57E is not worth much with it's Russian radar and avionics. They'd have to give us the full freedom to modify it as we want for the deal to work.

The Su-35 is out of the question.​

 

[Noob_Saibot]

Russkies really want the money
View attachment 42423

Russia pushes new fighter jet deal with India

Russia has submitted a dual proposal to India, offering its fifth-generation Su-57E stealth fighter and the advanced Su-35M air superiority jet. The offer, presented by Russian state conglomerate Rostec and Sukhoi, includes full technology transfer for local production of the Su-57E at Hindustan...

defence-blog.com

Seeing that AMCA is in the distant future, slow as fuck Tejas deliveries and no signs of any new deal for Rafales, we would be stupid to at least not consider this (if the source is credible, which i highly doubt).

Our numbers are already far less than what we need and there are going to be a lot of retirements in the next 10 years.

The math simply doesn't add up if we do not import significant numbers.

I for one am completely not in favour of the 'hope and wait for our indigenous programmes deliver' strategy that has many proponents in this forum.

Our enemies are not going to wait for our programmes to start delivering, they will take the chance when they smell that our deterrence is gone.

 

[Noob_Saibot]

Forget delivery, they don't have the luxury of building jack shit for us right now. The best and only offer they can make is license production deals with full ToT. They won't give up AL-51 hot cores, but the rest of the Su-57 (airframe, electromechanical systems, export grade avionics that'll be replaced, etc.) they will have to give away, for us to even consider it.

The Su-57E is not worth much with it's Russian radar and avionics. They'd have to give us the full freedom to modify it as we want for the deal to work.

The Su-35 is out of the question.​

Dude we cannot even fit our own fucking radars on our own fucking Tejas.

 

[snakeeyes07]

Astra mk4 with 3 pulse rocket motors and a seeker designed to be relatively more effective against stealth targets is in early phase of works.

US aim260 jtam is also rumoured to be 3 pulsed.
Russia & china are also working on similar missiles.

Shouldn't counter stealth BVR and SAM be having dual mode seekers [IR & RF]?

 

[vin pahadi (kumauni)]

Atleast Israelis are reliable at this. So we won't have much problem integrating this to our aircraft.

View: https://x.com/TheLegateIN/status/1941856101177172416

this three pulse motor BVR missile isnt necessary for us....or we can choose one missile from this skysting nd r37M for su 30 mki, who perform better as stop gap. but our ramjet gandiva will be superior technology from both of them.
But if we get technology, we can build (may be already building in kusha 3 nd kusha 4 case) sam missiles nd longer cruise missiles based on three pulse motor.
i m more intrested in two seeker equipped BVR missile or sam missile. if a BVR can carry both (RF seeker nd infra seeker), it will become more accurate nd deadly. i think israel already make sam missile based on two seeker. taklu abhijeet mitra said in his one podcast, that isreal also made a BVR based on two seeker. dont know how true that was. but two seeker idea in one missile is intresting.

 

[snakeeyes07]

this three pulse motor BVR missile isnt necessary for us....or we can choose one missile from this skysting nd r37M for su 30 mki, who perform better as stop gap. but our ramjet gandiva will be superior technology from both of them.
But if we get technology, we can build (may be already building in kusha 3 nd kusha 4 case) sam missiles nd longer cruise missiles based on three pulse motor.
i m more intrested in two seeker equipped BVR missile or sam missile. if a BVR can carry both (RF seeker nd infra seeker), it will become more accurate nd deadly. i think israel already make sam missile based on two seeker. taklu abhijeet mitra said in his one podcast, that isreal also made a BVR based on two seeker. dont know how true that was. but two seeker idea in one missile is intresting.

Solid ramjet missiles like Astra mk3 or Meteor will usually have a time of flight disadvantage over extended range compared to R-37M or Sky Sting. They would have better endgame kinematics but with Sky Sting type 3 pulse missiles (or huge 2 pulse missiles like PL-17) now becoming available, the difference is becoming less and less (or even negligible).

 

[vin pahadi (kumauni)]

Russkies really want the money
View attachment 42423

Russia pushes new fighter jet deal with India

Russia has submitted a dual proposal to India, offering its fifth-generation Su-57E stealth fighter and the advanced Su-35M air superiority jet. The offer, presented by Russian state conglomerate Rostec and Sukhoi, includes full technology transfer for local production of the Su-57E at Hindustan...

defence-blog.com

after hearing rafale controversy about its meteor missile nd spectra sensors performance. i think its better to go with su 57 (if we r thinking for MMRCA or MRFA). may be its not good as f35, j20 or j35...but its definitely better than rafale. rafale is near su 35 level (rafale is little better). but compaire to su 35, su 57 is definitely is step forward.
who hv problem with su 57 delivery. they can follow their Algeria delivery timeline. i dont think we should wait for AMCA to get a 5 genration. coz most people know, making AMCA production ready in 2035 isnt sure. they can take even more time. we hv no other 5 genration option, except su 57.
all 3 nation (USA, China nd russia) face many problem with their 5 genration aircrafts. why we r thinking our 5 genration will be problem free??? so its better to follow our earlier plan, to buy two type of 5 genration aircraft (medium weight AMCA nd heavy weight su 57).
people who r saying america will put CAATSA on us, if we buy su 57. then its our choice to choose our interest or america interest. sacrifices is part of life. indians r fighting (5 wars) with russian weapons from many years, now suddenly their weapons become shitty to many indian exfart. specially when we hv no option of that weapon by ourself. indian exfart r saying russian weapon arent as good as western technology. but we depend on russian technology, even its bad or good. now atleast we hv option to buy western nd indian system also, to fill gap of russian weapons.

 

[Drwho]

after hearing rafale controversy about its meteor missile nd spectra sensors performance. i think its better to go with su 57 (if we r thinking for MMRCA or MRFA). may be its not good as f35, j20 or j35...but its definitely better than rafale. rafale is near su 35 level (rafale is little better). but compaire to su 35, su 57 is definitely is step forward.
who hv problem with su 57 delivery. they can follow their Algeria delivery timeline. i dont think we should wait for AMCA to get a 5 genration. coz most people know, making AMCA production ready in 2035 isnt sure. they can take even more time. we hv no other 5 genration option, except su 57.
all 3 nation (USA, China nd russia) face many problem with their 5 genration aircrafts. why we r thinking our 5 genration will be problem free??? so its better to follow our earlier plan, to buy two type of 5 genration aircraft (medium weight AMCA nd heavy weight su 57).
people who r saying america will put CAATSA on us, if we buy su 57. then its our choice to choose our interest or america interest. sacrifices is part of life. indians r fighting (5 wars) with russian weapons from many years, now suddenly their weapons become shitty to many indian exfart. specially when we hv no option of that weapon by ourself. indian exfart r saying russian weapon arent as good as western technology. but we depend on russian technology, even its bad or good. now atleast we hv option to buy western nd indian system also, to fill gap of russian weapons.

Agree 100% Rafale turn out to be showcase jet. French screwed US in this deal.
India need mrca for immediate fixture.
Su57 m is best deal with su30 Mk2 upgrade.

Apart from this india need a bomber somehow tu160m2 or involvements in Russian next gen bomber is good option we have nothing to give and gain from everything in that deal.

Although fifthgen fighter are overhyped, stealth is not cheap it’s a white elephant. So May be small number for now , and. Focus on ucav.

Can’t put all the eggs in basket of HAL and drdo. If they do india will pay heavily for this misadventure.

 

[silentassassin265]

Agree 100% Rafale turn out to be showcase jet. French screwed US in this deal.
India need mrca for immediate fixture.
Su57 m is best deal with su30 Mk2 upgrade.

Apart from this india need a bomber somehow tu160m2 or involvements in Russian next gen bomber is good option we have nothing to give and gain from everything in that deal.

Although fifthgen fighter are overhyped, stealth is not cheap it’s a white elephant. So May be small number for now , and. Focus on ucav.

Can’t put all the eggs in basket of HAL and drdo. If they do india will pay heavily for this misadventure.

Who will build su57?
Hal is unable to deliver mk1a and let's say we restrict mk1a to 8 units per year we may build 16 su57.
Hal currently has only 24 units capacity.
That means mk2 will be on hold, mk1a and su57 will be better combo anyways than mk1a and mk2.

 

[FalconSlayers]

Indian Air Force gets future ready, scripts ‘unmanned force plan’

Indian Air Force plans to acquire 30-50 UAVs, aligning with global trends, focusing on MALE and HALE drones.

www.thehindubusinessline.com

 

[Ajatshatru]

Dude we cannot even fit our own fucking radars on our own fucking Tejas.

Integrating the UTTAM AESA radar into Tejas is different from integrating it into the Su-30MKI. Tejas also needs to be equipped with the indigenous Swayam Raksha Kavach electronic warfare (EW) suite instead of the current Israeli EW system. Otherwise, HAL will have to integrate the UTTAM radar with the Israeli EW suite, which will take additional time and cause delays. But waiting for the Indian EW suite to be ready will also lead to delays. So, it’s more practical to continue with the Israeli radar and EW suite for now, until the indigenous system is fully ready.

 

[Ajatshatru]

Who will build su57?
Hal is unable to deliver mk1a and let's say we restrict mk1a to 8 units per year we may build 16 su57.
Hal currently has only 24 units capacity.
That means mk2 will be on hold, mk1a and su57 will be better combo anyways than mk1a and mk2.

That would also require Indian Air Force to build new hardened shelters, as the ones designed for the MiG-21 can only accommodate the smaller Tejas MK1A. It was the IAF’s specific requirement to have a compact fighter to replace MiG-21, and their doctrine emphasizes maintaining a fleet of small fighter jets along the India-Pakistan border. In that context, Tejas MK1A remains the only suitable replacement for MiG-21.

 

[Drwho]

Who will build su57?
Hal is unable to deliver mk1a and let's say we restrict mk1a to 8 units per year we may build 16 su57.
Hal currently has only 24 units capacity.
That means mk2 will be on hold, mk1a and su57 will be better combo anyways than mk1a and mk2.

Providing or expending production unit is very easy. We have to do it .
Everything is prefabricated and we just need machines and manpower.
It’s the desire which is missing . We can’t keep giving same excuse of the existing infra.

We have to expend it to 48 unit , if we need large number.

as of now su30 is best we have. Rafale and Tejas are just not up to par with current installation and limitations. Rest everything is old era .

 

[liberalredditor]

Shuru ho gaya import debate, you all should know that su57e was brought to the table to pressurise french fries to our terms and negotiations. Leaderji knows the consequences of this mad orangegutan who can slap caatsa any second. Already we have some of our electronics companies sanctioned by us due to export of dual use tech to roos. F35 would not be offered to s400 nation. At most f15ex or f21 would be shoved. Rafale is better as we have the logistics and its better to not make a khichdi again like we did in the past.
Priority of the govt is with mwf mk2 and amca. To bring them asap in the force.

One more project we all forget is omca, we can convert our newer mig21, mig27, mig25 and in future jaguar and mig29 and mirages too. China has started converting its bulk of j7 to unmanned fighters which can also do kamikaze missions with a handsome loadout.

 

[Drwho]

Shuru ho gaya import debate, you all should know that su57e was brought to the table to pressurise french fries to our terms and negotiations. Leaderji knows the consequences of this mad orangegutan who can slap caatsa any second. Already we have some of our electronics companies sanctioned by us due to export of dual use tech to roos. F35 would not be offered to s400 nation. At most f15ex or f21 would be shoved. Rafale is better as we have the logistics and its better to not make a khichdi again like we did in the past.
Priority of the govt is with mwf mk2 and amca. To bring them asap in the force.

One more project we all forget is omca, we can convert our newer mig21, mig27, mig25 and in future jaguar and mig29 and mirages too. China has started converting its bulk of j7 to unmanned fighters which can also do kamikaze missions with a handsome loadout.

F35 will not be offered and we should be scared of caatsa ?
No matter what you do trump will find a reason to be pissed about. Unless you be his pet dog. He is willing to impose 10% extra on brics nations even threatened to extend it. His trade deal is not finalised because he want to suck india out of blood.

India realised that we can’t please trump so we have told them to take a hike. We choose what we want.
India was never depending on USA. Specially trump Bhakti was a stupid idea . We must wait for next 3 years to pass and not screw ourselves for century. Don’t set wrong example which can’t last forever .

As for Rafale it was bad deal. We must let it rest. These jets are no good without source code and some tot . It’s not same country which it was 20 years ago. France is run by Islamist and African immigrants. They have no respect for india France diplomacy.

 

[liberalredditor]

These jets are no good without source code

Doctor saab, did you buy your degree? Even a school goind kid will tell you that he wont give his written calculator code to anyone else then why will a defence contractor give away the source code of their top jewel?? Pls be mature. Even russia didnt give access to full source code of su30 mki, we have it till an extent where we can integrate our weaponry, above that, go to roos and pay them.
You beg for source code and all you will get is a kick right on your begging bowl.

As for Trump, yes he is acting like a mad elephant. But india is acting mature. We know this tarriff threat will not work, asians/xhinese and indians there will pressurise republicans to take this back, even us federal reserve chief said that tarriff war is stupid and will increase inflation to higher extent which will turn disastrous for burger economy. So they wont cut rates now. Most probably their cut in rates would by september october when they would pressurise trump to give up tarriff tarriff.

And if you telling us to go for su57e, then pls rest for a while. We are witnessing record amount of dalali since op sindoor. We know su57m is good. But as this is the last import, we should not make a khichdi again, keep limited jets but in good quantity and not 20 jets with 1 sq each.

 

[Binayak95]

Doctor saab, did you buy your degree? Even a school goind kid will tell you that he wont give his written calculator code to anyone else then why will a defence contractor give away the source code of their top jewel?? Pls be mature. Even russia didnt give access to full source code of su30 mki, we have it till an extent where we can integrate our weaponry, above that, go to roos and pay them.
You beg for source code and all you will get is a kick right on your begging bowl.

As for Trump, yes he is acting like a mad elephant. But india is acting mature. We know this tarriff threat will not work, asians/xhinese and indians there will pressurise republicans to take this back, even us federal reserve chief said that tarriff war is stupid and will increase inflation to higher extent which will turn disastrous for burger economy. So they wont cut rates now. Most probably their cut in rates would by september october when they would pressurise trump to give up tarriff tarriff.

And if you telling us to go for su57e, then pls rest for a while. We are witnessing record amount of dalali since op sindoor. We know su57m is good. But as this is the last import, we should not make a khichdi again, keep limited jets but in good quantity and not 20 jets with 1 sq each.

we dont go to russia for source code. we pay the israelis who have a wrapper program that can talk to Russian computers while integrating with MILSTD 1553 bus which all western weapons.

Regarding buying Su57. not gonna happen. it isnt getting produced, we walked out of it because we werent impressed, and as things stand it would be a waste of money to pour anything into Russian MIC.

 

[Corvus Splendens]

Dude we cannot even fit our own fucking radars on our own fucking Tejas.

That's a HAL problem.