ADA Tejas Mark-II/Medium Weight Fighter

shade2 said:
No, the average Westoid on the internet( including the Bri'ish green you're replying to ) thinks we're too stupid to reverse engineer it ourselves.

Therefore the technology will be sold to Russia :bplease: because we're a "Russian Ally"
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I don't understand why so many are getting so carried away. It was pointed out that India might have potential sales of Tejas Mk2 to other countries blocked by the US refusing permission for F414 to be exported to them.

It is reported that a potential Gripen E sale to Columbia has recently been blocked for precisely that reason and that another to Peru may also be blocked. Use of F414 in KF-21 may also be an issue in offering it to the Philippines.

On reverse engineering, don't ascribe ideas to me that I do not have. Instead of inventing my opinion of India's F414 reverse engineering capabilities and telling others what I think, consider the implications for India of reverse engineering US military products.

By the way, I doubt that the average Westoid on the internet has ever given any thought to India reverse engineering the F414.
 
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Spitfire IX said:
I don't understand why so many are getting so carried away. It was pointed out that India might have potential sales of Tejas Mk2 to other countries blocked by the US refusing permission for F414 to be exported to them.

It is reported that a potential Gripen E sale to Columbia has recently been blocked for precisely that reason and that another to Peru may also be blocked. Use of F414 in KF-21 may also be an issue in offering it to the Philippines.

On reverse engineering, don't ascribe ideas to me that I do not have. Instead of inventing my opinion of India's reverse engineering capabilities and telling others what I think, consider the implications for India of reverse engineering US military products.
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Dhotis couldn't even reverse engineer Russkie maal, forget about American ones.
 
GodEmperorDoom said:
Dhotis couldn't even reverse engineer Russkie maal, forget about American ones.
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Actually we can
But the ruski maal( engines of su30mki and mig29's)we have are mid to late 3rd gen engines.
Dry Kaveri performance wise is already early 4th gen engine category.
We can make jet engines, the problem lies with making them good enough for modern times or to design an relatively small aircraft around more than one engine.
Like if Tejas mk2 was twin engine jet in the same category as mig29k's we could use two Kaveri engines to power it.
But we went with single engine design to save time and cost.

For comparison.
Mig 29upg- max payload-4.5 tons( with two rd33 series 3 engine, with each engine have 50kn dry a 81kn wet thrust)
Tejas mk2- max payload 6.5 tons.( with single f414in6 engine with dry thrust of 58kn and max thrust of 98kn)
And Both have similar combat radius with internal fuel and standard air to air load out.

The only advantage mig 29upg gives here is better top speed.

Using 2 Kaveri engines with 79kn max thrust and using good delta and closed coupled canard configuration we could have made rafale category aircraft( max thrust of each of rafale's two engines is 75kn wet and 50kn dry), with similar payload, somewhat lower range and endurance, no supercruise, and relatively somewhat less engine life.
But due to lack of confidence by airforce in not proven and still not completely developed engine and airforce not wanting to wait long time for new jet we went with single engine Tejas mk2
 
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Nutcracker said:
Total rubbish, GE414 in the form which India will get, does not have higher T/w ratio than F135 or F119.
GE wont share those metallurgical and mechanical components using which it's thrust can be


increased from 98kN to 115kN at the cost of reduced operational hours.
I doubt GE will even share those details using which it generated 98kN.
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Actually f414 does have twr of 9 which higher than f135 & f119
F119 is 2.4ton heavy.

I suppose you are talking abt f414epe where they increased thrust from 98 to 117kn
The thing is they tripled the life of some major components while increasing life.
Thats most advance variant they also reduced one hp stage.

But that's none of our business as were getting in6
Btw they did offer epe for AMCA.
Anyways in6 is quite advance engine
We are getting alot of know how & almost 80% manufacturing processes atleast that's what is being said.



At the end
End goal of this deal is to give india technology it needs & they are somewhat willing to do not all though
So they're not point in discussing with whiteods
Muh india might reverse engineer it.
India didn't reverse engineer damn al31, despite manufacturing it & india will reverse engineer f414 ??
 
Satish Sharma Ji said:
Actually f414 does have twr of 9 which higher than f135 & f119
F119 is 2.4ton heavy.

I suppose you are talking abt f414epe where they increased thrust from 98 to 117kn
The thing is they tripled the life of some major components while increasing life.
Thats most advance variant they also reduced one hp stage.

But that's none of our business as were getting in6
Btw they did offer epe for AMCA.
Anyways in6 is quite advance engine
We are getting alot of know how & almost 80% manufacturing processes atleast that's what is being said.



At the end
End goal of this deal is to give india technology it needs & they are somewhat willing to do not all though
So they're not point in discussing with whiteods
Muh india might reverse engineer it.
India didn't reverse engineer damn al31, despite manufacturing it & india will reverse engineer f414 ??
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Twr of f135 is 11.2
 
Satish Sharma Ji said:
The thrust is around 191kn & it weighs around 2900kg so how is it 11.2
It should be around 6.5
Divide 19100kg by 2900kg
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theaviationgeekclub.com

USN Operations Specialist explains why the F-35’s F135 engine is better than F-22’s F119

US Navy Operations Specialist explains why the F-35’s F135 engine is better than F-22’s F119 (but not in every way)
theaviationgeekclub.com theaviationgeekclub.com
Acc to awaiting geek f135 with afterburner weighs 1700kg.
Also
Thrust-to-weight ratio: 7.47:1/11.47:1(afterburner)

Though 191÷17= 11.2


The weight you are talking about is probably the f135 used in f35B varient, with rotating nozzle for vertical takeoff
 
GodEmperorDoom said:
Dhotis couldn't even reverse engineer Russkie maal, forget about American ones.
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We already played with AL-31 Turbine blades with our Materials. Again moving into entire fleet will need certification from NPO Saturn. Meaning they will cry and demand money. Without certifications IAF will not agree for installation.

Unless we are in dire situation.
 
GodEmperorDoom said:
It's now do or die for Narendra Modi, just for the sake of saving 5 to 6 Billion on Engine, you are gonna sell 25 to 30 Billion in forex.
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I don't think they are saving anything, They are trying to leap-frog the devlopement cycle.. Its their way of doing it, its a double edged sword, if we suceed to might catch up in a decade, if not then we slide back 20 years from bleeding edge devlopements.
 
GodEmperorDoom said:
It's now do or die for Narendra Modi, just for the sake of saving 5 to 6 Billion on Engine, you are gonna sell 25 to 30 Billion in forex.
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We need the deal for lot of things.

We could not able to mass manufacture the modern day 4.5 Gen engines with our manufacturing capability. With this GE 414 deals, we are getting certain manufacturing know how. Based on this we will try to commercialize it for our own engines.

FTB, Wind tunnel for R&D. But manufacturing is another part. With F414 ToT we will get know how of Manufacturing.
 
ArjunMK1A said:
We need the deal for lot of things.

We could not able to mass manufacture the modern day 4.5 Gen engines with our manufacturing capability. With this GE 414 deals, we are getting certain manufacturing know how. Based on this we will try to commercialize it for our own engines.

FTB, Wind tunnel for R&D. But manufacturing is another part. With F414 ToT we will get know how of Manufacturing.
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India embarked on making a turbofan 30 years ago but would not invest in the kit needed to do that (wind tunnels, cold temperature chamber, high altitude chamber etc). I am baffled by India wanting TOT for F414 but not being prepared to invest in what is required to make it. You can't make a new engine without investing in the hardware required to make it. You can't make an existing engine without investing in the hardware required to make it.

What is the point of embarking on making an engine if you are not prepared to invest in the means to make an engine? To me that is ridiculous behaviour. You are doomed to not making what you set out to make.
 
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ArjunMK1A said:
We already played with AL-31 Turbine blades with our Materials. Again moving into entire fleet will need certification from NPO Saturn. Meaning they will cry and demand money. Without certifications IAF will not agree for installation.

Unless we are in dire situation.
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As per the contracts the alloys will only come from russia.
 
Asmodeus said:
congrats boys!!! :first:



View: https://x.com/Tej_Intel/status/1897299464815300747
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good if untrue;
better if true

in both case there shall be some urgency to finish those jets
in <true> case, let's just fuck it and go with RD-33MK or whatever is available from Ruskals in that series, get that KH-2001/KH-2002 airframe that was already certified for RD-33 and put it on Tejas and be done with that 🤷‍♂️

"something's better than nothing" and we don't have much time to waste
 
superpower said:
Any official confirmation or just rumours ?
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Rumours as of now, more like inside info(its always half baked though)

johny_baba said:
get that KH-2001/KH-2002 airframe that was already certified for RD-33 and put it on Tejas and be done with that 🤷‍♂️
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Its about GE F414... the 99 F404 for tejas has been already signed back in 2021 and we are just awaiting delivery which will definitely happen however late. RD33 is very underepowered for LCA mk2... Its better if we use Kaveri 2.0 with 90KN (again if it happens)
 
johny_baba said:
good if untrue;
better if true

in both case there shall be some urgency to finish those jets
in <true> case, let's just fuck it and go with RD-33MK or whatever is available from Ruskals in that series, get that KH-2001/KH-2002 airframe that was already certified for RD-33 and put it on Tejas and be done with that 🤷‍♂️

"something's better than nothing" and we don't have much time to waste
Click to expand...
Go for EJ200.. EU has a tiff with the US and courting you.. might just sweeten the deal little bit.
 
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