Chinese Economy Watch

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I'm not talking about "metro."

(China has 32 billion metro riders a year.)

-------------------------------------


Suburban rail​

[edit]
An EMU of the Mumbai Suburban Railway, the oldest Suburban Railway Network in India built in 1853An elevated stretch of the Chennai MRTS
Suburban rail plays a major role in the public transport system of many major Indian cities. These services are operated by Indian Railways. Suburban rail is a rail service between a central business district and the suburbs, a conurbation or other locations that draw large numbers of people daily. The trains are called suburban trains. These trains are also referred to as "local trains" or "locals". The suburban rail systems in Hyderabad, Pune, Lucknow–Kanpur and Bengaluru do not have dedicated suburban tracks but share tracks with long-distance trains. The suburban rail system of Mumbai, Kolkata and Chennai have both dedicated tracks and tracks shared with long-distance trains.

The first suburban rail system in India is Mumbai Suburban Railway which started operations in 1853. The Kolkata Suburban Railway has the largest network in the entire country. The Chennai Suburban Railway started its operations in 1931.

Suburban trains that handle commuter traffic are all electric multiple units (EMUs). They usually have nine or 12 coaches, though can sometimes include 15 to handle rush hour traffic. One unit of an EMU train consists of one power car and two general coaches. Thus a nine coach EMU is made up of three units having one power car at each end and one at the middle. The rakes in the suburban rails run on 25 kV AC.<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urban_rail_transit_in_India#cite_note-136"><span>[</span>128<span>]</span></a> Ridership on India's suburban railways has risen from 1.2 million in 1970–71 to 4.4 million in 2012–13. The suburban railways of Mumbai, Kolkata and Chennai occupy no more than 7.1% of the Indian Railways network, but account for 53.2% of all railway passengers.<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urban_rail_transit_in_India#cite_note-137"><span>[</span>129<span>]</span></a> In some cities of India, the opening of rapid transit systems has led to a decline in the use of the suburban rail system.<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urban_rail_transit_in_India#cite_note-138"><span>[</span>130<span>]</span></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urban_rail_transit_in_India#cite_note-139"><span>[</span>131<span>]</span></a>

As of 5 September 2021
------------

Indian railway passenger traffic FY 2010-2023​




,
Mar 12, 2025
The passenger traffic in the railway sector increased to 6.4 billion across India in fiscal year 2023. Passenger rail traffic from India’s suburbs was much higher than the non-suburban rail traffic at the end of fiscal year 2018. Overall, the railway network transported over 22 million passengers every day pre-pandemic era.

Ofcourse it dropped during pandemic, it was Covid.
 

Exclusive: China delays approval for Geely, BYD investment plans in Latin America, sources say​

By Reuters
April 11, 20257:54 PM GMT+9Updated 2 days ago


WASHINGTON, April 13 (Reuters) - U.S. Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick said on Sunday in an interview with ABC's "This Week" that smartphones, computers and some other electronics will come under separate tariffs, along with semiconductors that may be imposed in a month or so.



Chinese chip giants say they don't care about U.S. tariffs — many don't sell to the U.S. anyway due to existing sanctions


 
New vid from Indian family in China.

Shanghai to Suzhou, 100 times last 5 yrs.to me.


View: https://youtu.be/jCGiVXWFwE0?si=Ujef2ko7a7a55hUa

Can't you come up with better examples ? This woman has gone on record in one of her videos to say she'd like to settle down in China instead of India.

That's not how you disseminate propaganda . You've to be much more subtle about it. Look at Kanthan. It's only people like us who've been avid forumers since long who can immediately tell he's a Wumao. New comers to forums won't be able to do that.

Most new comers would actually see him as a treasure trove of information on China without any ulterior motive. That's how propaganda ought to be.

Telling you this so that you can report failing propaganda to the MSS & hopefully be promoted . Gather 1 USD / post instead of the usual rate of 50 cents / post - standard rates since 2005.

No need to thank me . That's what friends are for.
 
New vid from Indian family in China.

Shanghai to Suzhou, 100 times last 5 yrs.to me.


View: https://youtu.be/jCGiVXWFwE0?si=Ujef2ko7a7a55hUa

China high-speed rail operator forced to hike fares as debt balloons​

Rapid expansion leaves China Railway with $859bn in debt along with unused stations
 
Can't you come up with better examples ? This woman has gone on record in one of her videos to say she'd like to settle down in China instead of India.

That's not how you disseminate propaganda . You've to be much more subtle about it. Look at Kanthan. It's only people like us who've been avid forumers since long who can immediately tell he's a Wumao. New comers to forums won't be able to do that.

Most new comers would actually see him as a treasure trove of information on China without any ulterior motive. That's how propaganda ought to be.

Telling you this so that you can report failing propaganda to the MSS & hopefully be promoted . Gather 1 USD / post instead of the usual rate of 50 cents / post - standard rates since 2005.

No need to thank me . That's what friends are for.
it is paid propaganda.

The reality is their train system is unprofitable,

Amid China’s efforts to rapidly modernize and pull itself out of economic turmoil, a financial paradox is unfolding beneath its city streets. Long seen as symbols of urban modernization, subway systems across the country are grappling with staggering losses and spiraling debt.

A house of cards

While the expansion of subway systems has enhanced urban transportation, it comes at an enormous cost. According to reports by state-owned Yicai and Jiemian News, the financial health of these projects is deteriorating. Though revenues have risen for most subway companies, profits have declined. In 2023, 17 out of 29 subway companies reported profit drops, even as government subsidies increased.



Most subways systems are not making profits, subways are for masses, use by the poor, so you have to subsidize them.

A country like Mexico that mirrors China in salaries, has not very profitable trains, the reality buses are much better but they pollute more, and china is not different, high speed trains are for cities that are very close and passengers that can pay a lot.

The subway is for people that do not have cars, so most people riding trains are poor.

1744627426882.webp


Buses are cheaper to operate but they pollute more since most of them use gasoline, the subway is always subsidized because trains need lots of maintenance, have limited routes and are usually used by the poor.
 
Last edited:
Includes Indian Railways suburban and intercity traffic only

View attachment 30487
Except that all they’re proving is that cities with higher transit ridership have both higher vehicle occupancy (partly due to higher crowding, partly due to real efficiency, because they run more trains and not just buses) and higher subsidies per capita. To switch to raw 2019 NTD data just because it’s easier to explain: the MTA, across all sub-agencies recorded in the NTD’s top 50 database linked above, spent $12.381 billion on operations in 2019 and earned just $6.359 billion from fares, which works out to somewhat more than $400 per capita in the MTA service region – but those $6 billion of subsidies covered something like 30 billion p-km and 4.6 billion unlinked trips, working out to $1.3 per trip. Even taking into account that unlinked trips are fake news (they double-count people who transfer between subway lines, even within the system), the subsidy per ride is on the on the order of $2/trip. Dallas, in contrast, spent $568 million on operations, got $66 million in fare revenue, and carried 69 million unlinked trips and 706 million p-km. Far from stingy, Dallas spent $7.28 on subsidizing each unlinked bus or rail trip. Houston likewise spent $5.65/trip and Phoenix (buses only) $4.33.

Unofficial overtures to the Chinese government for funding in 2024 were not successful, industry players say privately, as the project – which offers a 90-minute ride between Kuala Lumpur and Singapore – is expected to incur financial losses.

China Is Raising Bullet Train Fares as Debts and Costs Balloon​

The politically fraught move comes as part of a broader push in China to stem losses at subsidized public services.



Fare hike unlikely to help debt-ridden Chinese high-speed railway; rather aggravates social exclusion​

November 16, 2024

1744628942015.webp
China Railway's total debt is reported to be 6 trillion yuan. Despite the high ticket prices and large passenger traffic, China Railway has been operating at a loss for many years. The reasons for this can be analyzed from a macro perspective. Unlike many railways in European and American countries that have a long history and have reached a period of balance and profitability, China's railways are relatively new. The Chinese government began vigorously carrying out urban and railway construction after the establishment of New China in 1949. The development of railway coverage across the country has been a priority, resulting in a total railway operating mileage of 146,000 kilometers, with high-speed rail covering 38,000 kilometers, ranking first in the world.China's rapid infrastructure development has been accompanied by significant capital investment and countless hardships. However, the high costs of construction, maintenance, and operation, coupled with the low ticket prices and high passenger traffic, have contributed to China Railway's financial challenges. Additionally, the debt burden may also be influenced by other factors such as financing models, government subsidies, and economic conditions.It is important to note that the information provided is based on the context available up until 2021-09. For the most up-to-date and accurate information on China Railway's debt and financial situation, it is recommended to refer to the latest financial reports and news sources.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kzMSJKbXwA
 

Indian Railways Ridership (2024)



The table below breaks down the total passengers carried by Indian Railways during the year 2024 (using latest FY 2023–24 data ). Categories include suburban (within cities) and non-suburban (long-distance) services, with further detail for types of long-distance trains. Premium services (like Rajdhani, Shatabdi, Vande Bharat, etc.) are a subset of the Mail/Express category. (Note: Figures for subcategories are approximate, as official 2024 breakdowns are not fully published; 2019–20 data showed Ordinary Passenger trains accounted for ~22.9% of passengers , but many of these low-fare services were curtailed post-COVID, shifting more travelers to express trains.) All figures are in crore passengers (1 crore = 10 million). A grand total is provided at the bottom.


Service Type
Passengers in 2024 (crore)
Suburban (local commuter trains)
~390

Non-Suburban (Long-distance) – Total

~258

• Mail/Express trains (incl. sleeper & reserved classes) *

~168

• Ordinary Passenger trains (unreserved slow services) *

~90

• Premium services (Rajdhani, Shatabdi, Vande Bharat, etc.) *

~8

Mixed freight-passenger “hybrid” trains *

Negligible

Total (All Indian Railways)

648
*Mail/Express, Ordinary, and Premium are subsets of non-suburban total. “Freight-passenger hybrid” services are extremely rare, so their contribution is negligible. Figures are rounded estimates based on available data and historical proportions . Total passengers in FY 2023–24 was officially 648 crore .


Metro Rail Ridership (2024)



The table below summarizes annual metro rail ridership for major Indian cities in 2024. Each entry represents the total number of passenger journeys on that city’s metro system over the year. (Where available, official calendar year 2024 figures are shown; otherwise latest FY 2023–24 or 2023 data is used.) All figures are in crore passengers:


Metro System
Annual Ridership (2024)
Delhi Metro
~203.2 crore (≈2.03 billion) (2023)

Mumbai Metro

~27.3 crore (≈273 million) (2024 est.)

Bengaluru (Namma) Metro

~23.3 crore (≈232.8 million) (2023)

Chennai Metro

10.52 crore (≈105.2 million) (2024)

Hyderabad Metro

~17.0 crore (≈170 million) (2023)

Kolkata Metro

21.81 crore (≈218.1 million) (FY 2024–25)
Sources: Official Indian Railways press releases and reports for FY2023–24 ; Ministry of Railways and Lok Sabha data on suburban vs. non-suburban traffic ; Metro rail corporations’ annual reports and press releases – e.g. DMRC (Delhi) 2023 ridership , Mumbai Metro July 2024 data , BMRCL (Bengaluru) 2023 , CMRL (Chennai) 2024 release , HMRL (Hyderabad) 2023 , and Metro Railway Kolkata FY2024–25 . Each metro system saw significant growth in 2022–2024 as ridership rebounded post-pandemic, with Delhi Metro by far the busiest (over 200 crore riders in 2023) and other cities’ metros in the tens of crores annually.
 
Indian Railways Ridership (2024)


The table below breaks down the total passengers carried by Indian Railways during the year 2024 (using latest FY 2023–24 data ). Categories include suburban (within cities) and non-suburban (long-distance) services, with further detail for types of long-distance trains. Premium services (like Rajdhani, Shatabdi, Vande Bharat, etc.) are a subset of the Mail/Express category. (Note: Figures for subcategories are approximate, as official 2024 breakdowns are not fully published; 2019–20 data showed Ordinary Passenger trains accounted for ~22.9% of passengers , but many of these low-fare services were curtailed post-COVID, shifting more travelers to express trains.) All figures are in crore passengers (1 crore = 10 million). A grand total is provided at the bottom.


Service Type
Passengers in 2024 (crore)
Suburban (local commuter trains)
~390

Non-Suburban (Long-distance) – Total

~258

• Mail/Express trains (incl. sleeper & reserved classes) *

~168

• Ordinary Passenger trains (unreserved slow services) *

~90

• Premium services (Rajdhani, Shatabdi, Vande Bharat, etc.) *

~8

Mixed freight-passenger “hybrid” trains *

Negligible

Total (All Indian Railways)

648
*Mail/Express, Ordinary, and Premium are subsets of non-suburban total. “Freight-passenger hybrid” services are extremely rare, so their contribution is negligible. Figures are rounded estimates based on available data and historical proportions . Total passengers in FY 2023–24 was officially 648 crore .


Metro Rail Ridership (2024)


The table below summarizes annual metro rail ridership for major Indian cities in 2024. Each entry represents the total number of passenger journeys on that city’s metro system over the year. (Where available, official calendar year 2024 figures are shown; otherwise latest FY 2023–24 or 2023 data is used.) All figures are in crore passengers:


Metro System
Annual Ridership (2024)
Delhi Metro
~203.2 crore (≈2.03 billion) (2023)

Mumbai Metro

~27.3 crore (≈273 million) (2024 est.)

Bengaluru (Namma) Metro

~23.3 crore (≈232.8 million) (2023)

Chennai Metro

10.52 crore (≈105.2 million) (2024)

Hyderabad Metro

~17.0 crore (≈170 million) (2023)

Kolkata Metro

21.81 crore (≈218.1 million) (FY 2024–25)
Sources: Official Indian Railways press releases and reports for FY2023–24 ; Ministry of Railways and Lok Sabha data on suburban vs. non-suburban traffic ; Metro rail corporations’ annual reports and press releases – e.g. DMRC (Delhi) 2023 ridership , Mumbai Metro July 2024 data , BMRCL (Bengaluru) 2023 , CMRL (Chennai) 2024 release , HMRL (Hyderabad) 2023 , and Metro Railway Kolkata FY2024–25 . Each metro system saw significant growth in 2022–2024 as ridership rebounded post-pandemic, with Delhi Metro by far the busiest (over 200 crore riders in 2023) and other cities’ metros in the tens of crores annually.


Do well

That's the detail.

Suburban (local commuter trains) 3.9 billion
Non-Suburban (Long-distance) – Total 2.58 billion
 
Except that all they’re proving is that cities with higher transit ridership have both higher vehicle occupancy (partly due to higher crowding, partly due to real efficiency, because they run more trains and not just buses) and higher subsidies per capita. To switch to raw 2019 NTD data just because it’s easier to explain: the MTA, across all sub-agencies recorded in the NTD’s top 50 database linked above, spent $12.381 billion on operations in 2019 and earned just $6.359 billion from fares, which works out to somewhat more than $400 per capita in the MTA service region – but those $6 billion of subsidies covered something like 30 billion p-km and 4.6 billion unlinked trips, working out to $1.3 per trip. Even taking into account that unlinked trips are fake news (they double-count people who transfer between subway lines, even within the system), the subsidy per ride is on the on the order of $2/trip. Dallas, in contrast, spent $568 million on operations, got $66 million in fare revenue, and carried 69 million unlinked trips and 706 million p-km. Far from stingy, Dallas spent $7.28 on subsidizing each unlinked bus or rail trip. Houston likewise spent $5.65/trip and Phoenix (buses only) $4.33.

Unofficial overtures to the Chinese government for funding in 2024 were not successful, industry players say privately, as the project – which offers a 90-minute ride between Kuala Lumpur and Singapore – is expected to incur financial losses.

China Is Raising Bullet Train Fares as Debts and Costs Balloon​

The politically fraught move comes as part of a broader push in China to stem losses at subsidized public services.



Fare hike unlikely to help debt-ridden Chinese high-speed railway; rather aggravates social exclusion​

November 16, 2024

View attachment 30507
China Railway's total debt is reported to be 6 trillion yuan. Despite the high ticket prices and large passenger traffic, China Railway has been operating at a loss for many years. The reasons for this can be analyzed from a macro perspective. Unlike many railways in European and American countries that have a long history and have reached a period of balance and profitability, China's railways are relatively new. The Chinese government began vigorously carrying out urban and railway construction after the establishment of New China in 1949. The development of railway coverage across the country has been a priority, resulting in a total railway operating mileage of 146,000 kilometers, with high-speed rail covering 38,000 kilometers, ranking first in the world.China's rapid infrastructure development has been accompanied by significant capital investment and countless hardships. However, the high costs of construction, maintenance, and operation, coupled with the low ticket prices and high passenger traffic, have contributed to China Railway's financial challenges. Additionally, the debt burden may also be influenced by other factors such as financing models, government subsidies, and economic conditions.It is important to note that the information provided is based on the context available up until 2021-09. For the most up-to-date and accurate information on China Railway's debt and financial situation, it is recommended to refer to the latest financial reports and news sources.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kzMSJKbXwA


HSR in last 20 yrs, saved at least $1 trillion from buying Airbus and Boeing, and the government would invest the money to health care and R&D, public security.

You are from the nation with lowest R&D, worst health care, worst social security record, you never understand it.


2.webp

1.webp



View: https://x.com/post_liberal/status/1801501152334287033?t=2yrXy7pQKUybF9T1RldEAQ&s=19
 
Indian Railways Ridership (2024)


The table below breaks down the total passengers carried by Indian Railways during the year 2024 (using latest FY 2023–24 data ). Categories include suburban (within cities) and non-suburban (long-distance) services, with further detail for types of long-distance trains. Premium services (like Rajdhani, Shatabdi, Vande Bharat, etc.) are a subset of the Mail/Express category. (Note: Figures for subcategories are approximate, as official 2024 breakdowns are not fully published; 2019–20 data showed Ordinary Passenger trains accounted for ~22.9% of passengers , but many of these low-fare services were curtailed post-COVID, shifting more travelers to express trains.) All figures are in crore passengers (1 crore = 10 million). A grand total is provided at the bottom.


Service Type
Passengers in 2024 (crore)
Suburban (local commuter trains)
~390

Non-Suburban (Long-distance) – Total

~258

• Mail/Express trains (incl. sleeper & reserved classes) *

~168

• Ordinary Passenger trains (unreserved slow services) *

~90

• Premium services (Rajdhani, Shatabdi, Vande Bharat, etc.) *

~8

Mixed freight-passenger “hybrid” trains *

Negligible

Total (All Indian Railways)

648
*Mail/Express, Ordinary, and Premium are subsets of non-suburban total. “Freight-passenger hybrid” services are extremely rare, so their contribution is negligible. Figures are rounded estimates based on available data and historical proportions . Total passengers in FY 2023–24 was officially 648 crore .


Metro Rail Ridership (2024)


The table below summarizes annual metro rail ridership for major Indian cities in 2024. Each entry represents the total number of passenger journeys on that city’s metro system over the year. (Where available, official calendar year 2024 figures are shown; otherwise latest FY 2023–24 or 2023 data is used.) All figures are in crore passengers:


Metro System
Annual Ridership (2024)
Delhi Metro
~203.2 crore (≈2.03 billion) (2023)

Mumbai Metro

~27.3 crore (≈273 million) (2024 est.)

Bengaluru (Namma) Metro

~23.3 crore (≈232.8 million) (2023)

Chennai Metro

10.52 crore (≈105.2 million) (2024)

Hyderabad Metro

~17.0 crore (≈170 million) (2023)

Kolkata Metro

21.81 crore (≈218.1 million) (FY 2024–25)
Sources: Official Indian Railways press releases and reports for FY2023–24 ; Ministry of Railways and Lok Sabha data on suburban vs. non-suburban traffic ; Metro rail corporations’ annual reports and press releases – e.g. DMRC (Delhi) 2023 ridership , Mumbai Metro July 2024 data , BMRCL (Bengaluru) 2023 , CMRL (Chennai) 2024 release , HMRL (Hyderabad) 2023 , and Metro Railway Kolkata FY2024–25 . Each metro system saw significant growth in 2022–2024 as ridership rebounded post-pandemic, with Delhi Metro by far the busiest (over 200 crore riders in 2023) and other cities’ metros in the tens of crores annually.

I think India should first get rid of people hanging outside of the coach, ensure the door is locked during the driving. I have been so many nations, none of nation (except Bengal) running on the such risky situation for decades.
 
Can't you come up with better examples ? This woman has gone on record in one of her videos to say she'd like to settle down in China instead of India.

That's not how you disseminate propaganda . You've to be much more subtle about it. Look at Kanthan. It's only people like us who've been avid forumers since long who can immediately tell he's a Wumao. New comers to forums won't be able to do that.

Most new comers would actually see him as a treasure trove of information on China without any ulterior motive. That's how propaganda ought to be.

Telling you this so that you can report failing propaganda to the MSS & hopefully be promoted . Gather 1 USD / post instead of the usual rate of 50 cents / post - standard rates since 2005.

No need to thank me . That's what friends are for.

You always label most people who made positive report on China as wumao or commie, i m not surprised.

It's not just her, most Indian vlogger came to China, their first vid were about Chinese railway system, and they made comparison with Indian. If you check the comments below, your POV are quite bizarre comparing with majority.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRFt4ATUs1k


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtDxQAN0pO4


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXXYwptn8-E


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aF_p1omXeok


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYN5ej-hblg
 
You always label most people who made positive report on China as wumao or commie, i m not surprised.

It's not just her, most Indian vlogger came to China, their first vid were about Chinese railway system, and they made comparison with Indian. If you check the comments below, your POV are quite bizarre comparing with majority.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRFt4ATUs1k


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtDxQAN0pO4


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXXYwptn8-E


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aF_p1omXeok


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYN5ej-hblg

So what's new in this ? China's HSR network is the biggest in the world. Whether it actually serves an utalitarian purpose or is it profitable is another matter altogether .

Besides this stock of vlogs you've uploaded is from 2-3 years ago when all of a sudden you had vloggers from all over the world including India converge on China highlighting how advanced a nation China is while you & particularly sexychineselady were adamant that China's still a developing nation out here.

Of course none of this had anything to do with the MSS running a propaganda campaign.
 
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I think India should first get rid of people hanging outside of the coach, ensure the door is locked during the driving.
We love hanging outside the doors. It's akin to surfing the waves with the water ski board.

I have been so many nations, none of nation (except Bengal) running on the such risky situation for decades.
You mean Bangladesh ! They usually travel on the roof of the train. China's their iron brother too. Wonder why doesn't CCP provide them with bullet trains or some other modern trains for a higher than usual interest rate & entrap them for a few generations. That's the least yon can do to them as a friend.
 
I think India should first get rid of people hanging outside of the coach, ensure the door is locked during the driving. I have been so many nations, none of nation (except Bengal) running on the such risky situation for decades.
Maybe you should allow your citizens to travel freely in China, instead of shadow banning your population with permits
 
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