Chit Chat

[Azaad]

Encounter between a fraud & a milquetoast

Ramdev races with horse to promote Shilajit, Bryan Johnson reacts, gets blocked

'Age-reversing' CEO Bryan Johnson claimed yoga guru Ramdev blocked him from X after he replied to his post with a comment in disagreement.

www.indiatoday.in

 

[Suryavanshi]

@Azaad

Thread 'Member driven Indian Defence Industry data aggregation Project.'

Yesterday at 7:35 PM

Hello guys as always to upkeep the quality of this forum we have decided to embark into another member driven project.

I was very impressed as to how we were able to salvage data from the previous forum by working together as a team. I have high hopes that we will be able to replicate that zeal and effort in peace times as well

Purpose of this thread?

>we will read financial statements, board meeting, reports of various Indians PSUs and write summary of it here.

For example this...

• Suryavanshi
• data aggregation defence industry member driven
• Replies: 0
• Forum: Defence Industry of India

• 

Can you guide the younglings here. I noticed that you have a knack for writing.

 

[ezsasa]

so tried grok3 a bit today with deep think, very good first impressions from my end. far better than chatgpt for the topics i used it for. i didn't have such a positive feedback with chatgpt when it showed up on the scene.
the ususal topics energy, economy, defence, terrorism , defence equipment and manufacturing etc..

with better prompt and data source , results will be even better i suppose.

 

[ezsasa]

so tried grok3 a bit today with deep think, very good first impressions from my end. far better than chatgpt for the topics i used it for. i didn't have such a positive feedback with chatgpt when it showed up on the scene.
the ususal topics energy, economy, defence, terrorism , defence equipment and manufacturing etc..

with better prompt and data source , results will be even better i suppose.

prompt : calculate the percentage of Indian defence equipment currently in use by source country, interms of design origin, manufacured in, numbers and value. display in a table each for navy, army, airforce and strategic force command.

Calculating the precise percentage of Indian defence equipment currently in use by source country—across design origin, manufactured location, numbers, and value—for the Indian Army, Navy, Air Force, and Strategic Forces Command (SFC) is a complex task due to limited public access to comprehensive and up-to-date inventories. However, I can provide an informed estimation based on available data from recent defence budgets, procurement trends, SIPRI arms transfer data (2019-2023), and known equipment profiles as of February 20, 2025. The analysis will focus on major platforms (e.g., aircraft, tanks, ships, missiles) rather than small arms or consumables, as these dominate value and strategic significance.
Methodology and Assumptions

1. Data Source:
   
   • The 2024-25 defence budget (Rs 6.22 lakh crore, with Rs 1.72 lakh crore for capital expenditure) and SIPRI data on import shares (Russia 36%, France 33%, US 13%, Israel 8%, Germany 4%, Italy 3%) are used as a baseline.
   • Domestic production is estimated at 75% of new procurements (Rs 1.29 lakh crore), with 60% indigenous design (Rs 77,400 crore) and 40% license-produced (Rs 51,600 crore).
   • Historical stock is inferred from known acquisitions over decades, adjusted for depreciation.
2. Design Origin: Refers to the country where the technology or design was developed (e.g., Su-30MKI is Russian design, even if made in India).
3. Manufactured In: Refers to the country of final assembly or production (e.g., Su-30MKI is manufactured in India under license).
4. Numbers: Estimated for major platforms (e.g., aircraft, tanks, ships) based on public inventories. Small arms and minor equipment are excluded due to lack of detailed counts.
5. Value: Estimated using procurement costs from recent contracts, adjusted for historical purchases and inflation. Total value reflects current stock, not just new procurements.
   • Exact numbers and values for current stock are not publicly available in comprehensive detail.
   • Percentages are approximations, reflecting trends rather than precise counts.
   • SFC data is sparse due to its secretive nature (nuclear assets).

Indian Army

• Key Equipment: Tanks (T-90, T-72, Arjun), artillery (Dhanush, ATAGS), helicopters (ALH Dhruv, Apache).
• Stock: ~4,200 tanks, ~3,000 artillery pieces, ~300 helicopters.

• Notes:
  
  • Russia dominates design origin (T-90, T-72: 3,700 tanks). India’s Arjun (125 tanks) and ALH Dhruv boost indigenous share.
  • Most manufacturing is domestic (e.g., T-90 assembled by HVF Avadi), but imports persist (e.g., US Apache helicopters).
  • Value reflects high-cost indigenous projects (e.g., Arjun) and large Russian legacy fleet.

Indian Navy

• Key Equipment: Ships (frigates, destroyers, submarines), aircraft (MiG-29K, P-8I).
• Stock: ~294 vessels, ~70 aircraft.

• Notes:
  
  • India designs many ships (e.g., INS Vikrant, Shivalik-class). Russia (e.g., Talwar-class) and France (Scorpene submarines) contribute significantly.
  • High domestic manufacturing (e.g., Mazagon Dock) drives 80% production share.
  • US P-8I aircraft and French submarines elevate their value share.

Indian Air Force

• Key Equipment: Fighters (Su-30MKI, Rafale, Tejas), helicopters (Chinook, Mi-17), AEW&C (Netra).
• Stock: ~600 aircraft (31 squadrons).

• Notes:
  
  • Russia dominates with Su-30MKI (260 aircraft). France’s Rafale (36) and India’s Tejas (40 delivered) are notable.
  • HAL manufactures most Su-30s and Tejas, boosting India’s production share.
  • High-value Rafale and Su-30 contracts skew value towards Russia and France.

Strategic Forces Command (SFC)

• Key Equipment: Missiles (Agni, Prithvi), nuclear submarines (Arihant), aircraft (Mirage 2000, Jaguar for nuclear delivery).
• Stock: ~150-200 missiles, 1-2 submarines, ~50 aircraft.

• Notes:
  
  • India’s DRDO designs most missiles (Agni, Prithvi) and Arihant-class submarines.
  • Manufacturing is almost entirely domestic (e.g., BDL for missiles).
  • France (Mirage 2000) and Russia (missile tech legacy) have minor roles.

 

[ezsasa]

Calculating the precise percentage of Indian defence equipment currently in use by source country—across design origin, manufactured location, numbers, and value—for the Indian Army, Navy, Air Force, and Strategic Forces Command (SFC) is a complex task due to limited public access to comprehensive and up-to-date inventories. However, I can provide an informed estimation based on available data from recent defence budgets, procurement trends, SIPRI arms transfer data (2019-2023), and known equipment profiles as of February 20, 2025. The analysis will focus on major platforms (e.g., aircraft, tanks, ships, missiles) rather than small arms or consumables, as these dominate value and strategic significance.
Methodology and Assumptions

1. Data Source:
   
   • The 2024-25 defence budget (Rs 6.22 lakh crore, with Rs 1.72 lakh crore for capital expenditure) and SIPRI data on import shares (Russia 36%, France 33%, US 13%, Israel 8%, Germany 4%, Italy 3%) are used as a baseline.
   • Domestic production is estimated at 75% of new procurements (Rs 1.29 lakh crore), with 60% indigenous design (Rs 77,400 crore) and 40% license-produced (Rs 51,600 crore).
   • Historical stock is inferred from known acquisitions over decades, adjusted for depreciation.
2. Design Origin: Refers to the country where the technology or design was developed (e.g., Su-30MKI is Russian design, even if made in India).
3. Manufactured In: Refers to the country of final assembly or production (e.g., Su-30MKI is manufactured in India under license).
4. Numbers: Estimated for major platforms (e.g., aircraft, tanks, ships) based on public inventories. Small arms and minor equipment are excluded due to lack of detailed counts.
5. Value: Estimated using procurement costs from recent contracts, adjusted for historical purchases and inflation. Total value reflects current stock, not just new procurements.
   • Exact numbers and values for current stock are not publicly available in comprehensive detail.
   • Percentages are approximations, reflecting trends rather than precise counts.
   • SFC data is sparse due to its secretive nature (nuclear assets).

Indian Army

• Key Equipment: Tanks (T-90, T-72, Arjun), artillery (Dhanush, ATAGS), helicopters (ALH Dhruv, Apache).
• Stock: ~4,200 tanks, ~3,000 artillery pieces, ~300 helicopters.

View attachment 25671

• Notes:
  
  • Russia dominates design origin (T-90, T-72: 3,700 tanks). India’s Arjun (125 tanks) and ALH Dhruv boost indigenous share.
  • Most manufacturing is domestic (e.g., T-90 assembled by HVF Avadi), but imports persist (e.g., US Apache helicopters).
  • Value reflects high-cost indigenous projects (e.g., Arjun) and large Russian legacy fleet.

Indian Navy

• Key Equipment: Ships (frigates, destroyers, submarines), aircraft (MiG-29K, P-8I).
• Stock: ~294 vessels, ~70 aircraft.

View attachment 25672

• Notes:
  
  • India designs many ships (e.g., INS Vikrant, Shivalik-class). Russia (e.g., Talwar-class) and France (Scorpene submarines) contribute significantly.
  • High domestic manufacturing (e.g., Mazagon Dock) drives 80% production share.
  • US P-8I aircraft and French submarines elevate their value share.

Indian Air Force

• Key Equipment: Fighters (Su-30MKI, Rafale, Tejas), helicopters (Chinook, Mi-17), AEW&C (Netra).
• Stock: ~600 aircraft (31 squadrons).

View attachment 25673

• Notes:
  
  • Russia dominates with Su-30MKI (260 aircraft). France’s Rafale (36) and India’s Tejas (40 delivered) are notable.
  • HAL manufactures most Su-30s and Tejas, boosting India’s production share.
  • High-value Rafale and Su-30 contracts skew value towards Russia and France.

Strategic Forces Command (SFC)

• Key Equipment: Missiles (Agni, Prithvi), nuclear submarines (Arihant), aircraft (Mirage 2000, Jaguar for nuclear delivery).
• Stock: ~150-200 missiles, 1-2 submarines, ~50 aircraft.

View attachment 25675

• Notes:
  
  • India’s DRDO designs most missiles (Agni, Prithvi) and Arihant-class submarines.
  • Manufacturing is almost entirely domestic (e.g., BDL for missiles).
  • France (Mirage 2000) and Russia (missile tech legacy) have minor roles.

contd..
===
Overall Insights

• Design Origin: Russia leads historically (e.g., Army tanks, Air Force fighters), but India’s indigenous designs (e.g., Tejas, Arihant) are growing, especially in SFC and Navy.
• Manufactured In: India dominates production (75% overall), reflecting license production (e.g., Su-30MKI) and indigenous efforts (e.g., INS Vikrant).
• Numbers: Legacy Russian equipment still constitutes the majority in Army and Air Force, while Navy and SFC show stronger Indian numerical presence.
• Value: High-cost platforms (e.g., Rafale, Su-30) keep Russia and France relevant, but India’s investments in indigenous systems (e.g., Tejas, Agni) are significant.

Limitations and Caveats

• Numbers: Exact counts are approximate; small arms and spares are excluded due to data gaps.
• Value: Historical costs are estimated, and depreciation isn’t fully accounted for.
• SFC: Data is speculative due to confidentiality; percentages are weighted towards known indigenous systems.

This analysis aligns with India’s push for self-reliance (Atmanirbhar Bharat), with domestic production and design steadily overtaking historical reliance on Russia, while France and the US gain traction in high-value segments. For precise figures, official Ministry of Defence inventories would be required, which are not publicly available.

 

[Azaad]

@Azaad

Thread 'Member driven Indian Defence Industry data aggregation Project.'

Yesterday at 7:35 PM

Hello guys as always to upkeep the quality of this forum we have decided to embark into another member driven project.

I was very impressed as to how we were able to salvage data from the previous forum by working together as a team. I have high hopes that we will be able to replicate that zeal and effort in peace times as well

Purpose of this thread?

>we will read financial statements, board meeting, reports of various Indians PSUs and write summary of it here.

For example this...

• Suryavanshi
• data aggregation defence industry member driven
• Replies: 0
• Forum: Defence Industry of India

• 

Can you guide the younglings here. I noticed that you have a knack for writing.

I can try but who're the volunteers & what exactly do you have in mind ?

If I've understood you right , you're calling for someone to analyse the financial results & call records of various defence cos whether public or pvt based on which we can aggregate data here for analysis on their various projects & the various stages in development / trial they've reached.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

There's a guy who's doing exactly that on Strat Front . Goes by the handle @marich01 & his twitter handle is @ang3kenny IIRC. He's actually employed as an analyst by some company & enjoys what he's doing.

Lucky Chap !

We tried getting him on to DFI just before it shut down abruptly . @Noob led the initiative & @Aditya Ballal sounded him out on Twitter but he declined the offer. The reason I've mentioned this is Strat Front has little membership or viewership . We can try again . But someone has to take the initiative .

Alternatively we need to develop someone in House for this job . It's practically a full time hobby / profession.

Just FYI.

 

[Ayan Barat]

@Azaad

Thread 'Member driven Indian Defence Industry data aggregation Project.'

Yesterday at 7:35 PM

Hello guys as always to upkeep the quality of this forum we have decided to embark into another member driven project.

I was very impressed as to how we were able to salvage data from the previous forum by working together as a team. I have high hopes that we will be able to replicate that zeal and effort in peace times as well

Purpose of this thread?

>we will read financial statements, board meeting, reports of various Indians PSUs and write summary of it here.

For example this...

• Suryavanshi
• data aggregation defence industry member driven
• Replies: 0
• Forum: Defence Industry of India

• 

Can you guide the younglings here. I noticed that you have a knack for writing.

If I'm getting you correctly then you basically want a thread just like say DRDO thread where instead of "DRDO tests new Nag variant..." you'll have occasional posts likes "BEL released Q3 report, here are quick points..."

I've done these kinds of data extraction/compilation type stuff in vessels and missiles infographics, so can be done. But to be honest the hassle isn't worth the outcome. If someone really wants insight then he already has better tools in the form of things like MoneyControl and what not. AI is also there

 

[ezsasa]

If I'm getting you correctly then you basically want a thread just like say DRDO thread where instead of "DRDO tests new Nag variant..." you'll have occasional posts likes "BEL released Q3 report, here are quick points..."

I've done these kinds of data extraction/compilation type stuff in vessels and missiles infographics, so can be done. But to be honest the hassle isn't worth the outcome. If someone really wants insight then he already has better tools in the form of things like MoneyControl and what not. AI is also there

these sort of projects help in protecting curated data we like from external biases and algorithms.
as time moves forward, because of the expontential progression of digital content, the data we want to find becomes harder to find. curated data sets helps us in finding things at a later point in time, within our reach.

 

[Suryavanshi]

I can try but who're the volunteers

we will try to assign task to people like we did in the scrapping sprint we did during DFI shutdown. It will be a good exercise of our young ones here who have taken to blackpilling and referencing individual takes on twitter.

If I've understood you right , you're calling for someone to analyse the financial results & call records of various defence cos whether public or pvt based on which we can aggregate data here for analysis on their various projects & the various stages in development / trial they've reached.

Exactly this except we will have 5 to 7 guys make report of some 30 to 40 companies that we monitor periodically. That statfront guy is gifted but I believe multiple members working together can bring more impact and perspective.

What I want from you is to develop a sop as to what kind of details we are looking for what details need to be omitted and what needs to be highlighted. I know it sounds vague but it will get clear once we start working on it. The SOP document will be handed out to anyone who wants to contribute, this will being a sort of standardization to reports prepared. I am good at following SOPs but my structuring and writing coherence is not good is what I'm aware of as you can see from my posts.

if nothing else than this will be a good lead for folks who want to invest in the market.

If I'm getting you correctly then you basically want a thread just like say DRDO thread where instead of "DRDO tests new Nag variant..." you'll have occasional posts likes "BEL released Q3 report, here are quick points..."

yes except way more systematic and coherent.

I've done these kinds of data extraction/compilation type stuff in vessels and missiles infographics, so can be done. But to be honest the hassle isn't worth the outcome. If someone really wants insight then he already has better tools in the form of things like MoneyControl and what not. AI is also there

If its one guy doing it than it will be a hassle but with multiple people sharing the load it would be a breeze. AI can never keep up with individual perspective and attention to detail.

 

[Suryavanshi]

these sort of projects help in protecting curated data we like from external biases and algorithms.
as time moves forward, because of the expontential progression of digital content, the data we want to find becomes harder to find. curated data sets helps us in finding things at a later point in time, within our reach.

exactly, sites like money control is one or two writer showing us what they want to show with no feedback. Besides I have noticed that young members joining the forum are very much influenced by twitter takes who read the same data or source it from multiple places and build their own narrative. SMs are very opinionated so as a alternative to that we want some more raw and one tone document.

More than DFB this will help the members here who will develop analytical skill, collaboration and discipline.

 

[Anants]

Guys tell me good laptop with good graphics card? Need sturdy laptop with good cooling and light weight. Serviceability of laptop should be good

 

[Prasad]

Guys tell me good laptop with good graphics card? Need sturdy laptop with good cooling and light weight. Serviceability of laptop should be good

I doubt laptop's with your specs exist.
good Graphics card + good cooling = heavy weight.

If mobility is not a criteria, then buy a desktop, cheaper + you will get better specs.

I built a desktop in 2015 and I am still using it. It plays some heavy games on decent settings with no issue.
On other hand, the laptop I bought two years later croaked 3 years back with a whimper.

 

[Anants]

I doubt laptop's with your specs exist.
good Graphics card + good cooling = heavy weight.

If mobility is not a criteria, then buy a desktop, cheaper + you will get better specs.

I built a desktop in 2015 and I am still using it. It plays some heavy games on decent settings with no issue.
On other hand, the laptop I bought two years later croaked 3 years back with a whimper.

I had same issue with Sony Vaio top end bought decade and half ago.. had latest Intel and Nividia in smallest form factor- yet it croaked within 5 years. Graphics card melted everything inside. I just wanted laptop for mobility.

I am slowly inching towards decent PC + cheap laptop combo. PC only for local dump and sometimes video editing stuff etc (havent done in some long time on laptop) and use laptop to remote desktop it - when needed.

So any suggestions for PC - what should I get config? Its more than 2 decades I scourged market for latest h.w for getting pc built.

 

[Prasad]

I had same issue with Sony Vaio top end bought decade and half ago.. had latest Intel and Nividia in smallest form factor- yet it croaked within 5 years. Graphics card melted everything inside. I just wanted laptop for mobility.

I am slowly inching towards decent PC + cheap laptop combo. PC only for local dump and sometimes video editing stuff etc (havent done in some long time on laptop) and use laptop to remote desktop it - when needed.

So any suggestions for PC - what should I get config? Its more than 2 decades I scourged market for latest h.w for getting pc built.

yup, a decent PC + cheap laptop always wins.

 

[Nutcracker]

Its crazy to think that a single jab of a medicine should cost so much.

All about Zolgensma: the Rs 17 crore injection for spinal muscular atrophy - ET HealthWorld

Though it is yet to be approved in India, insiders estimate that about 90 children have received Zolgensma in the last few years. Given that the single shot infusion is out of reach for everybody except the super-rich, most of this is through humanitarian programmes or crowd funding. The drug...

health.economictimes.indiatimes.com

 

[Desi Doomer Reborn]

I had same issue with Sony Vaio top end bought decade and half ago.. had latest Intel and Nividia in smallest form factor- yet it croaked within 5 years. Graphics card melted everything inside. I just wanted laptop for mobility.

I am slowly inching towards decent PC + cheap laptop combo. PC only for local dump and sometimes video editing stuff etc (havent done in some long time on laptop) and use laptop to remote desktop it - when needed.

So any suggestions for PC - what should I get config? Its more than 2 decades I scourged market for latest h.w for getting pc built.

Depends what is your requirement i will always suggest amd as it is good for gaming as well as productivity. Let me know your budget

 

[TopWatcher]

 

[darkflame]

I had same issue with Sony Vaio top end bought decade and half ago.. had latest Intel and Nividia in smallest form factor- yet it croaked within 5 years. Graphics card melted everything inside. I just wanted laptop for mobility.

I am slowly inching towards decent PC + cheap laptop combo. PC only for local dump and sometimes video editing stuff etc (havent done in some long time on laptop) and use laptop to remote desktop it - when needed.

So any suggestions for PC - what should I get config? Its more than 2 decades I scourged market for latest h.w for getting pc built.

If your budget is around 60k I will recommend rtx 4060 8gb graphics card and an i5 12400f combo with a b760 ddr5 mobo(msi bomber wifi will be good) with 16gb(8+8) ddr5 ram also a decent nvme ssd for storage like crucial p3(512gb) all powered by a 550w psu like msi mag 550bn. You can use any case even the one you already have.

 

[darkflame]

Depends what is your requirement i will always suggest amd as it is good for gaming as well as productivity. Let me know your budget

Amd is not very good for productivity though for gaming it's bang for the buck

 

[Anants]

thanks 60000 should be good 32gb + ram , nvidia 4060 , liquid cooling. and a case which is reliable and expandable. Would like it to be remote machine, so should i go for two wifi cards? one for internet(dynamic) or static internal ip? Any suggestions good complete config without getting poached by the assemblers?