DRDO and PSU's

Ayan Barat said:
No matter how many pics from different angles you post or how HD the quality is...even Wernher Magnus Maximilian Freiherr von Braun himself can't tell whether there's just a simple nose cone or a annular air intake or some X-51 like set-up inside by just looking at the drag reducing cap.
Click to expand...
May be they just want to milk india through brahmos 2 for there zircon. I'm not saying It doesn't exist. They just haven't achieved the advertised numbers just a inferior scram jet missiles which they have operationalised. I think zircon has intakes like brahmos. That's what it looks like from those pictures. Maybe p800 on steroids.
But haven't reached the potential.
no way its design look like a traditional scramjet would look atleast not like what India,usa,japan have showcased.
Even our published models of brahmos 2 looks much different than what they have showcased.

I believe same as fellow members mentioned that russia couldn't be ahead of usa in materials for hypersonic scramjet.
Could be like they wanna improve it by milking india.
 
randombully said:

View: https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1864323479065039222
Click to expand...

fire starter said:
Tedbf file with ccs.

View: https://x.com/sneheshphilip/status/1864640673145655480?t=VCldXwMbu3S_ypU69tRdiw&s=19
Click to expand...


Let's see how long the can remain so. Mujhe already lakshan thik nahi lag rahe.

Vikr.Jr is getting 26 Rafales. Vikky's feasible replacement/s will need 30 or 60 jets if we have 3 carriers at 2035. Will we develope a while new fighter for a requirement of 60. That too will come after 2035.
We'll we keep the semi-useable Mig-29s till 2035!?.. Remember, they'll be fine fighter if launched with proper payload from a shore/island base! There's a good chance the Mig-29 will be shifted & we'll get more "stopgap" Rafales, who'll serve till 2050. There's goes our TEDBF.

I've always been all for desi, but chances for this one looks slim.
 
AMCA MK1 said:
May be they just want to milk india through brahmos 2 for there zircon. I'm not saying It doesn't exist. They just haven't achieved the advertised numbers just a inferior scram jet missiles which they have operationalised. I think zircon has intakes like brahmos. That's what it looks like from those pictures. Maybe p800 on steroids.
But haven't reached the potential.
no way its design look like a traditional scramjet would look atleast not like what India,usa,japan have showcased.
Even our published models of brahmos 2 looks much different than what they have showcased.

I believe same as fellow members mentioned that russia couldn't be ahead of usa in materials for hypersonic scramjet.
Could be like they wanna improve it by milking india.
Click to expand...
image0-2.webpScreenshot_20241205_180210_Gallery.webp
i-webp.17734
image0-1.webpi.webpScreenshot_20241205_181945_Google.webp
If this "alleged" picture of zircon is true, then you can see the nose, and it confirms zircon is rocket powered not airbreathing
 
randombully said:
After more internet digging, including using Google translate to infiltrate the russian side of internet, searching many russian forums,telegram channels and discord channels( those these mf's are pretty racist)
I came across multiple discussion that were also saying that zircon is a rocket motor powered hypersonic missile, but it was still just "word of mouth".
Then I came across this "alleged" pic of zircon without cap.
View attachment 17719View attachment 17720View attachment 17721
If this "alleged" pic turned out to be true then it confirms my theory that zircon is infact rocket powered.
Click to expand...
Can you name a few of those Russian forums and telegram channels??
 
Bleh said:
It's cheaper to get more Rafales, than design a jet from scratch. Problem is there order size is gonna be no more than 50. That's too low for such investment, unless ORCA happens as well (unlikely).

Even if we work to get F404 powered Rafales (20% more powerful as each engine) then also it'll still be cheaper.



How many shore based fighter does Navy have (agreed it'd be smart to have carrier capable jets at shore/island bases ✨)?.. The Mig-29 are new-ish, could've moved them to Andaman & solved their payload issue with a a larger batch of replacement Rafales. Would've also fixed the MRFA conundrum as well.

I doubt such thing will happen. Neither is there a need for ORCA with AMCA present & to go on to a Mark2. ORCA shares the grave with TEDBF
Click to expand...
They should have cancelled the Tejas Mk2 altogether and gone all in on the ORCA/ TEDBF project in 2021.
 
Blood+ said:
Can you name a few of those Russian forums and telegram channels??
Click to expand...
For that I have to do internet digging again, it took me 2 hours.
Just Type " russian defense/military group telegram" on Google translate, translate it in russian.
Them reach that translation in " Google chrome" as it has a translation function to translate things back in English.
But still most of the telegram channels you will get with be about ukraine war.
Few will have defense related shit, you have to do digging like i did.
 
AMCA MK1 said:
May be they just want to milk india through brahmos 2 for there zircon. I'm not saying It doesn't exist. They just haven't achieved the advertised numbers just a inferior scram jet missiles which they have operationalised. I think zircon has intakes like brahmos. That's what it looks like from those pictures. Maybe p800 on steroids.
But haven't reached the potential.
no way its design look like a traditional scramjet would look atleast not like what India,usa,japan have showcased.
Even our published models of brahmos 2 looks much different than what they have showcased.

I believe same as fellow members mentioned that russia couldn't be ahead of usa in materials for hypersonic scramjet.
Could be like they wanna improve it by milking india.
Click to expand...
Well it's a known thing in defence circles that Russian/Chinese/Turkish figures are slightly inflated and "Western" ones are slightly deflated.

Like Russians did so much of hype buliding for Kinzhal; when in reality it's just an air launched Iskander. Thats it.
Americans did something similar in 60s. Israeli just casually made something similar to simulate IRBMs. Even we're on our way to make one by going with the Rudram-II/III increments.

So it can very well be one trap for BrahMos-II like FGFA was.

Though there can be a slight possibility that may be there are some annular scramjet inlets under that cap.
Like here's one absolutely bonkers scramjet intake
IMG_20241205_192226.webp
But yeah, this technological lagging compared to USA is also a valid argument. The case with stealth tech and KKV being good examples.
 
fire starter said:
Tedbf file with ccs.

View: https://x.com/sneheshphilip/status/1864640673145655480?t=VCldXwMbu3S_ypU69tRdiw&s=19
Click to expand...


Can confirm this is true. Pictures arrived from MOD.
1733408432827.webp

Rajnath ji carrying all the relevant documents for signing.


Blood+ said:
They should have cancelled the Tejas Mk2 altogether and gone all in on the ORCA/ TEDBF project in 2021.
Click to expand...


Single engine is easy to maintain. Since MK2 is an enhanced version of Tejas Mk1A. It will exists within our Inventory.

Ambitious target for IAF

1. MK1A
2. MK2.
3. ORCA -- TEDBF Air Force version.
4. Sukhoi
5. Rafale
6. AMCA.

This will streamline all the Jungle of jets we have.

But it is imagination from me for now.
 
Last edited:
Blood+ said:
They should have cancelled the Tejas Mk2 altogether and gone all in on the ORCA/ TEDBF project in 2021.
Click to expand...

Only scenario that v could've happened is if we'd bought out the Mirage-2000 assembly line from France in early 2000s. Single Engineer light medium fighter is considered an absolute must by IAF.
ArjunMK1A said:
Ambitious target for IAF

1. MK1A
2. MK2.
3. ORCA -- TEDBF Air Force version.
4. Sukhoi
5. Rafale
6. AMCA.

This will streamline all the Jungle of jets we have.

But it is imagination from me for now.
Click to expand...

Being pushed again...
defence.in

Russia Offers India Upgraded Su-57E Jets with Hypersonic Weapons, But Concerns Remain Over Stealth, Engine Reliability, and AMCA Impact

Russia is making a renewed push to entice India with its Su-57E fifth-generation fighter jet, now boasting upgrades that include hypersonic weapons, enhanced stealth features, and improved avionics. To sweeten the deal, Russia has reportedly lowered the aircraft's cost and expressed willingness...
defence.in defence.in
 
Thank you @randombully sir and @Ayan Barat sir for the valuable insights .
On a lighter note @Ayan Barat sir you should publish this as Ayan's criteria of hypersonic weapons
To help technically illiterate people like me to understand such complex topics easily
 
randombully said:
@Ayan Barat
What's the use of nose cap of Shaurya missile? And why is it blunt?
Click to expand...
Multiple reasons from protecting the fragile radome to prevention water ingress into the intake, but the most common is drag reduction like in the case of the aforementioned missile.

Despite both being fluids there are few differences between air and water like density, viscosity and compressibility so ultimately in water a hemispherical nose cone would generate less drag than say a LV-Haak cone. The opposite happens in air

As for Shaurya, I've already touched that
Ayan Barat said:
Shaurya - Sagarika improvised for ground launch. Like still having hydrodynamic cone despite ground launched
Click to expand...
 
One must also think TEDF can be used for AHCA base, like Mirage-3000, a promising plane which died due to no orders, In future, many things can happen.

Regarding aircraft carriers they are only going to increase.

Rafales are for IAC-2, IAC-3 and IAC-4 both will come in future.
 
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