DRDO and PSU's

[notaname]

algorithms cannot prevent human greed and stupidity from occuring, those need a different approach.

That's what I am talking about we need different approach with algorithms inbetween.

Mainly holding babus responsible for data related to any person or entity. They will atleast not sell hardware to anyone they deem fit.

 

[SKC]

Here they sold government owned systems then how any of above mentioned restrictions come into place, and the restrictions you mentioned are majorly used in private sector and there are many workarounds for all of these so they are not full proof, it all depends on the person handling the data to be sensitive about that.

Like just couple of days back star health's medical data was sold by it's CISO to chinese, so none of the above arguments hold there.

I am talking about human end of things not about the software related restrictions.

I know some from CISF as well and whatever I have heard from them about handing of confidential documents doesn't inspire me to be white pilled about any of that.

I have mentioned that the InfoSec and CyberSecurity policies are now being implemented or already present in Major Private and Govt/Public offices.
You have a layer of security already there. Now, the human factor is something you can't avoid or prevent 100%. If someone is hell bent on selling out the secrets, then they will find out ways to achieve it one way or other.​

 

[shade2]

Here they sold government owned systems then how any of above mentioned restrictions come into place, and the restrictions you mentioned are majorly used in private sector and there are many workarounds for all of these so they are not full proof, it all depends on the person handling the data to be sensitive about that.

Like just couple of days back star health's medical data was sold by it's CISO to chinese, so none of the above arguments hold there.

I am talking about human end of things not about the software related restrictions.

I know some from CISF as well and whatever I have heard from them about handing of confidential documents doesn't inspire me to be white pilled about any of that.

algorithms cannot prevent human greed and stupidity from occuring, those need a different approach.

In terms of Nation-State cyberwarfare i.e shut down our power, water, railways etc type infrastructure attacks, it absolutely essential that we develop our own cyberwarfare capabilities to match pic related



In essence we should have the same capabilities so it becomes a Nuclear exchange style MAD situation, where we too can do 1:1 infrastructure crippling and chaos inducing attacks on their infra and society.


Meanwhile if some sarkari karamchari sells out systems or data like the Star Health CISO did, we better make sure that this person ends up like the results of those who cross Mexican Cartels, and this is widely reported so that it kills any germinating seeds of greed and treachery within would be (((salesmen)))

 

[Satish Sharma Ji]

For the love of Shree Krishna, all of you, please, please stop making these foolish arguments -

• Spending money on MQ-9 is useless, it can easily be shot down by SAMs.

Ohh fellow when did I say spending on mq9 is waste useless. I spoke in favour of mq9 citing importance in ior. It is very important in ior. Another similar asset for similar job we have is p8i which is very expensive to operate in peace time. It does it job much better but mq9 is cost effective if used as per need. Relieving p8i.


Also I know they will never be operated in sam coverages. It is supposed to provide real time surveillance in Himalayan region.
They're not gonna go for bombing mission in pakistan; ) I know

• 
  You know what else can easily be shot down by SAM ? Any slow flying object including transport, helicopters and any type of drone.

Helicopter, transport aircraft have counter measures helicopter can fly very low transport aircraft don't fly in sam coverages or even close to enemy airspace. They will travel long in order to minimise distance between them and enemy airspace.
I know we aren't loosing mq9s nor I appose it getting shot down so many times we aren't operating it in yemen


No need for this Gyan I didn't ask you.
Ye Gyan pelna hi tha na to kisi or ko pakad ke pelta. Ya fir tere usual hamsafar V_shn__t ko.

• 
  These are utility platforms used outside of enemy's weapon range. Drones like MQ-9 hover at 40k ft. (way outside of MANPAD range) and can still see 20-30 km away easily. 99% of time is preparation for war, 1% time is actual war. ISTAR platforms like MQ-9 are crucial assets for such "preparation".
  
  
• Tapas is a cheaper option than MQ-9, we should have gone for that.
  
  Tapas is cheaper but cannot replace MQ-9, but can complement it. Performance, sensor suite, comm. datalink, weapons, all exceeds that of what Tapas currently offers.
  
  IMO 31 MQ-9 should be complemented with ~50-60 Tapas for non-demanding roles & handing majority of non-specialised tasks.
  
  
• Tapas was unjustly rejected because it cannot reach 30k ft., requirements are unfair.
  
  As a matter of fact requirements are not only fair but also made lenient for Tapas. Heron & Eitans fly above 35k feet consistently for multiple hours over Himalayas gathering data (we have observed this, can confirm). This is necessary because Himalayan mountains near LAC & northern LoC have ground level at 13k feet and general terrain touches 20k feet regularly.
  An RPA flying at 27k will not get the LoS to look towards the enemy territory without compromising its position.

I have supported this notion of tapas being complementary platform many time before.
And never said it should be inducted instead of mq9.

 

[SlayingHell]

For the love of Shree Krishna, all of you, please, please stop making these foolish arguments -

• Spending money on MQ-9 is useless, it can easily be shot down by SAMs.
  
  You know what else can easily be shot down by SAM ? Any slow flying object including transport, helicopters and any type of drone.
  
  These are utility platforms used outside of enemy's weapon range. Drones like MQ-9 hover at 40k ft. (way outside of MANPAD range) and can still see 20-30 km away easily. 99% of time is preparation for war, 1% time is actual war. ISTAR platforms like MQ-9 are crucial assets for such "preparation".
  
  
• Tapas is a cheaper option than MQ-9, we should have gone for that.
  
  Tapas is cheaper but cannot replace MQ-9, but can complement it. Performance, sensor suite, comm. datalink, weapons, all exceeds that of what Tapas currently offers.
  
  IMO 31 MQ-9 should be complemented with ~50-60 Tapas for non-demanding roles & handing majority of non-specialised tasks.
  
  
• Tapas was unjustly rejected because it cannot reach 30k ft., requirements are unfair.
  
  As a matter of fact requirements are not only fair but also made lenient for Tapas. Heron & Eitans fly above 35k feet consistently for multiple hours over Himalayas gathering data (we have observed this, can confirm). This is necessary because Himalayan mountains near LAC & northern LoC have ground level at 13k feet and general terrain touches 20k feet regularly.
  An RPA flying at 27k will not get the LoS to look towards the enemy territory without compromising its position.
  

Heron, Eitan fly above 35k feet? Isn't this already debunked including its endurance? Why some are still peddling false information?

 

[Satish Sharma Ji]

Heron, Eitan fly above 35k feet? Isn't this already debunked including its endurance? Why some are still peddling false information?

Things were debunked abt hermes can u shed some light abt heron,eitan

 

[mist_consecutive]

Ohh fellow when did I say spending on mq9 is waste useless. I spoke in favour of mq9 citing importance in ior. It is very important in ior. Another similar asset for similar job we have is p8i which is very expensive to operate in peace time. It does it job much better but mq9 is cost effective if used as per need. Relieving p8i.


Also I know they will never be operated in sam coverages. It is supposed to provide real time surveillance in Himalayan region.
They're not gonna go for bombing mission in pakistan; ) I know


Helicopter, transport aircraft have counter measures helicopter can fly very low transport aircraft don't fly in sam coverages or even close to enemy airspace. They will travel long in order to minimise distance between them and enemy airspace.
I know we aren't loosing mq9s nor I appose it getting shot down so many times we aren't operating it in yemen


No need for this Gyan I didn't ask you.
Ye Gyan pelna hi tha na to kisi or ko pakad ke pelta. Ya fir tere usual hamsafar V_shn__t ko.

I have supported this notion of tapas being complementary platform many time before.
And never said it should be inducted instead of mq9.

Don't worry you are not the primary target its for all other lurkers who will spring up sometimes saying "Sir sir MQ9 is corruption we want Tapas".

Also regarding drones "not" having countermeasures, I wonder why ? If a helicopter / transport plane of the same size can have it, then why not drones ?

Turns out I was right -

USAF Tests Angry Kitten Electronic Warfare Pod on MQ-9 Reaper

The US Air Force recently tested the Angry Kitten ALQ-167 Electronic Countermeasures Pod on an MQ-9A Reaper drone.

thedefensepost.com

Its no big deal installing ECMs & flares on drones.

Heron, Eitan fly above 35k feet? Isn't this already debunked including its endurance? Why some are still peddling false information?

Funny take, I have flightradar screenshot of Heron flying over Tawang clocking > 30k feet consistently for hours.

 

[Blood+]

Heron, Eitan fly above 35k feet? Isn't this already debunked including its endurance? Why some are still peddling false information?

That was Hermes 900. And Eitan can do even better than 35k as it's powered by a turboprop engine.

 

[705-Lira]

For the love of Shree Krishna, all of you, please, please stop making these foolish arguments -

• Spending money on MQ-9 is useless, it can easily be shot down by SAMs.
  
  You know what else can easily be shot down by SAM ? Any slow flying object including transport, helicopters and any type of drone.
  
  These are utility platforms used outside of enemy's weapon range. Drones like MQ-9 hover at 40k ft. (way outside of MANPAD range) and can still see 20-30 km away easily. 99% of time is preparation for war, 1% time is actual war. ISTAR platforms like MQ-9 are crucial assets for such "preparation".
  
  
• Tapas is a cheaper option than MQ-9, we should have gone for that.
  
  Tapas is cheaper but cannot replace MQ-9, but can complement it. Performance, sensor suite, comm. datalink, weapons, all exceeds that of what Tapas currently offers.
  
  IMO 31 MQ-9 should be complemented with ~50-60 Tapas for non-demanding roles & handing majority of non-specialised tasks.
  
  
• Tapas was unjustly rejected because it cannot reach 30k ft., requirements are unfair.
  
  As a matter of fact requirements are not only fair but also made lenient for Tapas. Heron & Eitans fly above 35k feet consistently for multiple hours over Himalayas gathering data (we have observed this, can confirm). This is necessary because Himalayan mountains near LAC & northern LoC have ground level at 13k feet and general terrain touches 20k feet regularly.
  An RPA flying at 27k will not get the LoS to look towards the enemy territory without compromising its position.
  

Even Tapas Bh-201 will be capable of flying above 30,000ft if it's piston engines are replaced with turbo-props, but are the Armed Forces willing to bear the increased cost?

 

[fire starter]

Good news bc.

View: https://x.com/ShivAroor/status/1846790442249064799?t=swVEMRIspUzct6js6tbhGQ&s=19

 

[mist_consecutive]

Even Tapas Bh-201 will be capable of flying above 30,000ft if it's piston engines are replaced with turbo-props, but are the Armed Forces willing to bear the increased cost?

Who said to put piston engines on Tapas ? Armed Forces ? Nah, they just listed the requirements that needs to be met.

ADE was responsible for design decisions. They chose to opt for superiorly-underpowered piston engines when we could have used a gas-turbine engine.

Also, laughable that you bring the cost. Are gas-turbine engines some super-duper warp-drive costing trillions of $ ? HAL Dhruv has 2 X Turbomeca Shakti each having power of ~1000kW. The piston engines on Tapas generates ~160kW power.

 

[fire starter]

So madar**** dalals are creating a whole new category to push foreign maal at the cost of indigenous systems.

View: https://x.com/Tej_Intel/status/1846799427102822437?t=Aig-IvneW5b3QiNHyIihMA&s=19

It is not possible without political will, seems like mahamanav needs new source of funding for his party.

It's better to bury the jumlebaazi of atmanirbharta.

View: https://x.com/AdithyaKM_/status/1846820042014708115?t=E5O8_jqY3xlLJzt8Ik2TGA&s=19

 

[jaijaganath]

So madar**** dalals are creating a whole new category to push foreign maal at the cost of indigenous systems.

View: https://x.com/Tej_Intel/status/1846799427102822437?t=Aig-IvneW5b3QiNHyIihMA&s=19

It is not possible without political will, seems like mahamanav needs new source of funding for his party.

It's better to bury the jumlebaazi of atmanirbharta.

View: https://x.com/AdithyaKM_/status/1846820042014708115?t=E5O8_jqY3xlLJzt8Ik2TGA&s=19

Thus showing that mudiji only capable to do such stunts wrt canada only when he has given jaziya
He is only good for IT cell chutiyas who think mudiji showing lal ankh to Canada killing khalistani separatists and only capable of editing red eye jaishankar pics but in reality he is a pushover

If we still buy Strykers after this incidence then what ever things we are doing is just for show with guarantee that nothing wrong will happen to them

 

[Aaj Ka Hero]

So madar**** dalals are creating a whole new category to push foreign maal at the cost of indigenous systems.

View: https://x.com/Tej_Intel/status/1846799427102822437?t=Aig-IvneW5b3QiNHyIihMA&s=19

It is not possible without political will, seems like mahamanav needs new source of funding for his party.

It's better to bury the jumlebaazi of atmanirbharta.

View: https://x.com/AdithyaKM_/status/1846820042014708115?t=E5O8_jqY3xlLJzt8Ik2TGA&s=19

Let's wait sirji.

 

[shade2]

So madar**** dalals are creating a whole new category to push foreign maal at the cost of indigenous systems.

View: https://x.com/Tej_Intel/status/1846799427102822437?t=Aig-IvneW5b3QiNHyIihMA&s=19

It is not possible without political will, seems like mahamanav needs new source of funding for his party.

It's better to bury the jumlebaazi of atmanirbharta.

View: https://x.com/AdithyaKM_/status/1846820042014708115?t=E5O8_jqY3xlLJzt8Ik2TGA&s=19

Who is this TejIntel?

ToI says roadblocks in deal because Justinder

India's plan to buy Stryker armoured vehicles hits snag amid diplomatic rift with Canada

Doubts have emerged over the Indian Army's plan to procure Stryker armoured vehicles from Canada amidst deteriorating diplomatic relations, with the indigenous WhAP program, a collaboration between DRDO and Tata Advanced Systems, offering a competitive alternative and gaining traction for...

economictimes.indiatimes.com

Anyway this was known to be a Jaziya deal

 

[darkindie]

Stryker was never going to happen irrespective of what is happening with kaneda. No one from the BHARATIYE military or gormint has said anything about stryker.

The Hindu (western bootlicker) had put out an article saying army was preparing for stryker evaluations and trials and from then onwards chestbeating and bangle breaking started all over the net and media.

Defsec Lloyd Austin can kang on and on about discussing about mass producing stryker in bharat because he is THE salesman for ameriCAN'T MIC.

If somebody can finally post the tender for WHAP and see the it's procurement is under IDDM category, people on this forum can finally fucking stop about stryker.

Americans lobbied hard in Isreal for f16 and killed the israeli lavi indigenous fighter program. So if israelis rejected stryker. Stryker for sure will not come in Bharat.
(Ps mahindra and tata both gib monies to bhaji pao and babus if people are thinking on that tangent)

 

[shade2]

So madar**** dalals are creating a whole new category to push foreign maal at the cost of indigenous systems.

View: https://x.com/Tej_Intel/status/1846799427102822437?t=Aig-IvneW5b3QiNHyIihMA&s=19

It is not possible without political will, seems like mahamanav needs new source of funding for his party.

It's better to bury the jumlebaazi of atmanirbharta.

View: https://x.com/AdithyaKM_/status/1846820042014708115?t=E5O8_jqY3xlLJzt8Ik2TGA&s=19

So i found a non paywall archive of that ET article

https://archive.is/6owNg

Just posting excerpts relevant to us

=================================================================

New Delhi: Plummeting diplomatic relations with Canada have raised doubts about Indian Army's plan to buy Ontario-produced Stryker armoured vehicles. The infantry combat vehicles, predominantly used by the US, had been part of the Indo-American talks for coproduction of military equipment, with a senior US official mentioning progress and forward movement in June.

Manufactured by General Dynamics Land Systems Canada (GDLS-C), the vehicles were being pushed for use by the Army in forward areas, especially on the border with China in Ladakh. In June, a senior US official said that things are in the 'early stages' but the US plans to demonstrate the "capabilities of the Stryker to the Indian Army at an early opportunity".


Sources said that there has been no forward movement and no decision has been taken on moving the procurement forward. For the past year, a sustained campaign has been launched to sell Canadian vehicles to India, with the project being touted as part of the 'Atmanirbhar Bharat' initiative

However, early plans being outlined suggested direct purchase of an unspecified number of the vehicles from the Ontario plant, followed by a co-production with GDLS-C. These plans had raised hackles with Indian defence companies that have sunk in crores into research and development efforts to produce similar vehicles customised for Indian needs.
ET has learnt that industry leaders have raised the issue with the government, emphasising that domestic options designed and developed in consultation with the armed forces are available and the Stryker coproduction would be of little value.

====================================================================

TLDR is Tata Sahibs are mad that Amerisharts unke mooh ka nivala cheen rahe hai.

So it's not only us dephens phanboys who are getting High BP over this

 

[Azaad]

So i found a non paywall archive of that ET article

https://archive.is/6owNg

Just posting excerpts relevant to us

=================================================================

New Delhi: Plummeting diplomatic relations with Canada have raised doubts about Indian Army's plan to buy Ontario-produced Stryker armoured vehicles. The infantry combat vehicles, predominantly used by the US, had been part of the Indo-American talks for coproduction of military equipment, with a senior US official mentioning progress and forward movement in June.

Manufactured by General Dynamics Land Systems Canada (GDLS-C), the vehicles were being pushed for use by the Army in forward areas, especially on the border with China in Ladakh. In June, a senior US official said that things are in the 'early stages' but the US plans to demonstrate the "capabilities of the Stryker to the Indian Army at an early opportunity".


Sources said that there has been no forward movement and no decision has been taken on moving the procurement forward. For the past year, a sustained campaign has been launched to sell Canadian vehicles to India, with the project being touted as part of the 'Atmanirbhar Bharat' initiative

However, early plans being outlined suggested direct purchase of an unspecified number of the vehicles from the Ontario plant, followed by a co-production with GDLS-C. These plans had raised hackles with Indian defence companies that have sunk in crores into research and development efforts to produce similar vehicles customised for Indian needs.
ET has learnt that industry leaders have raised the issue with the government, emphasising that domestic options designed and developed in consultation with the armed forces are available and the Stryker coproduction would be of little value.

====================================================================

TLDR is Tata Sahibs are mad that Amerisharts unke mooh ka nivala cheen rahe hai.

So it's not only us dephens phanboys who are getting High BP over this

I think it was @Corvus Splendens IIRC who speculated on DFI that these Strykers the IA is looking to procure were for a specific role in limited numbers & not for your regular IFV or APC roles .

That role was speculated to be either C&C or armed with 4-8 ATGMs or SAM for drones / hptrs etc. It was either one of these or a couple if not all 3. I remember asking him if we couldn't adapt the WhAP for such a role. I don't remember the answer.

 

[SlayingHell]

I think it was @Corvus Splendens IIRC who speculated on DFI that these Strykers the IA is looking to procure were for a specific role in limited numbers & not for your regular IFV or APC roles .

That role was speculated to be either C&C or armed with 4-8 ATGMs or SAM for drones / hptrs etc. It was either one of these or a couple if not all 3. I remember asking him if we couldn't adapt the WhAP for such a role. I don't remember the answer.

It is said on X that that BHEL haramkhors were lobbying for it. It looks like still after Tatra Scam they are intent to suck on Tax payer money and derail Indigenous products.

 

[sameer]

I think it was @Corvus Splendens IIRC who speculated on DFI that these Strykers the IA is looking to procure were for a specific role in limited numbers & not for your regular IFV or APC roles .

That role was speculated to be either C&C or armed with 4-8 ATGMs or SAM for drones / hptrs etc. It was either one of these or a couple if not all 3. I remember asking him if we couldn't adapt the WhAP for such a role. I don't remember the answer.

But if it's just limited numbers, why GOI is running all this drama about co-produkshun. Might as well buy it directly instead of taking the time to setup the factory and all. And afaik no other major military is procuring stryker, so no export orders either.