DRDO and PSUs

Tejas a low rcs plane is tracked/detected at 475km. Surely it can easily detect loaded j10c,f16s,jf17s at 600km+ range. And now it's getting Gan upgrade, range will increase even further maybe ~700km. Netra is truly a formidable force multiplier platform. More than what I expected. And Netra mk2 is in pipeline.
The progress drdo has made is Appreciable.
I can see 475km labeled part but where does it indicate about Tejas being tracked.
 


Corrupted GENROLS trying to buy an Israeli maal openly by giving n number of acronyms. This is the problem with Indian System. What the fuck is TGS. It is an Artillery, FRCV, FICV are simple tank and IFV. GENROLS prepare some document giving new acronym and then do muh import
 
Corrupted GENROLS trying to buy an Israeli maal openly by giving n number of acronyms. This is the problem with Indian System. What the fuck is TGS. It is an Artillery, FRCV, FICV are simple tank and IFV. GENROLS prepare some document giving new acronym and then do muh import

It's not Generals who prepare the documents. They are plain stupid people.

They just behave like agent of a certain company and push the material to MOD which company provides them.

UN Generals even don't know how to give a GSQR. They just copy paste the Brochure of intended item they have decided to buy.
 
The visionary Indian Army did not choose to purchase K10 Resupply Vehicles.
really?! *scratching my head like a bummer*
but i remember reading on good ol' D F I that how we're getting those K10s as well, two vehiles per battery something...perhaps deal was shelved over 'no need' ?
 


Lmao, my 'one man think tankie' (copied quote, I know) taking a W. @Azaad @shade2

OROP genrols nag for phoren maal -> chindi gormint shuts them down entirely or make piecemeal/borderline irrelevant procurements -> genrols angleee, hitjobs posted all across media -> desi system gets shoved down the throats of OROP genrols regardless -> chindi gormint W
 


Fuck Babus.
Jai Generals.

Basically UN Generals has been shamelessly rejecting indigenous products for decades.

This is yet another proof that UN Generals are the sole reason why Indian defence industry haven't moved anywhere for decades.

Corrupted GENROLS trying to buy an Israeli maal openly by giving n number of acronyms. This is the problem with Indian System. What the fuck is TGS. It is an Artillery, FRCV, FICV are simple tank and IFV. GENROLS prepare some document giving new acronym and then do muh import

It's not Generals who prepare the documents. They are plain stupid people.

They just behave like agent of a certain company and push the material to MOD which company provides them.

UN Generals even don't know how to give a GSQR. They just copy paste the Brochure of intended item they have decided to buy.

Army Subjected Indigenous Howitzer To 'Absurd Tests' While Still Keeping Door Open For Israel's ATHOS: Military Brass Still After 'Imported Toys'?​

Swarajya Staff
Mar 22, 2025, 01:26 PM | Updated 01:56 PM IST




The Advanced Towed Artillery Gun System (ATAGS).

The Advanced Towed Artillery Gun System (ATAGS).
  • The Army's insistence on purchasing 400 ATHOS guns was "repeatedly rebuffed" by the government though, which saw it as a move that could undermine the growing indigenous artillery design and development ecosystem.
As journalist Chitra Subramaniam brings the Bofors saga to a definitive close with her new book — an authoritative account of what happened and how, the Indian military, too, is finally turning the page on its decades-long artillery curse, called the Bofors jinx.

For years, the spectre of Bofors loomed large over every attempt at modernisation, turning procurement into an exercise in paralysis.

Even when the Indian Army inducted the US-made M777 howitzers, many rushed to declare that the so-called Bofors jinx had been broken. But it hadn’t—not really. That moment has arrived only now. Not with another foreign purchase, but with an artillery system forged in India, for India's needs.

On 20 March, the Cabinet Committee on Security, chaired by Prime Minister Narendra Modi, cleared a landmark Rs 7,000 crore deal for the procurement of the Advanced Towed Artillery Gun System (ATAGS), the first fully indigenous 155mm howitzer. The deal will bring 307 ATAGS guns into the Army’s arsenal, along with 327 gun-towing vehicles.

And it couldn't have come a day sooner.

In 1999, the Indian Army introduced the Field Artillery Rationalisation Plan (FARP), an ambitious blueprint aiming to acquire 2,800 155mm artillery guns by 2027. The plan envisioned the procurement of 1,580 155mm x 52 calibre towed artillery guns, with the remaining guns to come from self-propelled (tracked and wheeled) artillery, mounted gun systems, and ultra-light howitzers. The goal was clear: modernise the artillery corps and bring India’s artillery capabilities up to speed with global standards.

Yet, over two decades later, the programme had barely moved forward.

The Comptroller and Auditor General report recently exposed the glacial pace at which the programme has progressed, highlighting the near complete stagnation in the artillery modernisation effort.

Since the induction of the Bofors FH-77B howitzers in 1986-87 — a procurement that was completed over 35 years ago — there had been no meaningful addition to the artillery inventory till the induction of the ultra-light M777s bought from the United States in 2017. As of now, only eight per cent of the total 2,800 guns have been acquired, and only 17 percent of the proposed guns have been delivered under the six proposals for the acquisition of new artillery systems.

The ATAGS

The development of the ATAGS began in 2013 as part of the Indian Army’s artillery modernisation programme. It was designed and developed by the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) in collaboration with Bharat Forge (Kalyani Strategic Systems Limited, or KSSL) and Tata Advanced Systems Limited (TASL).

The objective was clear: build an artillery system with a fit for India's unique needs.

Automation became a key defining feature of the ATAGS, setting it apart from most conventional artillery systems. Unlike traditional systems that rely on hydraulic mechanisms, the ATAGS was designed with an all-electric drive, which not only improved reliability but also reduced maintenance needs. The gun-laying process was fully automated, minimising crew workload and enhancing response times during combat.

Equipped with an integrated fire control system, the ATAGS boasts an inertial navigation system, a muzzle velocity radar, and a ballistic computer, all of which contribute to its exceptional precision. Additionally, the system includes an optronic sight with a thermal imager and laser rangefinder, enabling effective night firing.

Mobility was another focus. The gun was built to be highly transportable, with both towed and self-propelled configurations. This was needed given the diverse terrain from the western border with Pakistan to the northern boundary with China.

The ATAGS recoil system uses a double-baffle muzzle brake and hydro-pneumatic technology to manage the force of the gun's recoil. The muzzle brake redirects gases from the shot, reducing recoil and keeping the gun stable. The hydro-pneumatic system absorbs the recoil energy, ensuring sustained firing without destabilising the weapon. These technologies enable rapid and stable firing, even in challenging terrains.

A key engineering challenge was extending the gun’s range without compromising accuracy or reliability. To achieve this, the designers decided to increase the chamber pressure beyond conventional limits. This required an advanced gun barrel capable of withstanding extreme stress, along with a reinforced breech mechanism.

Engineers employed autofrettaged steel and specialised manufacturing techniques to ensure durability. The result was a gun capable of achieving a range of 38.5 km with a boat-tail round, which features a streamlined shape for improved aerodynamics; and, a 48 km range with a base bleed round, which reduces drag by releasing gas from the base to enhance the round's range, outperforming many existing systems around the world.

ATAGS was first publicly showcased during the Republic Day Parade in 2017. By 2022, it became the first indigenous gun to participate in the 21-gun salute at the Red Fort.

In March 2023, the Ministry of Defence (MoD) approved the procurement of 307 ATAGS units for the Indian Army. The proposal had been under review for several years. Meanwhile, multiple other artillery procurement proposals, including those for self-propelled guns, were either dropped or not pursued further.

The ATAGS has also received foreign orders. In August 2023, the Armenian Ground Forces placed an order for six ATAGS units from KSSL. The guns were manufactured at KSSL’s Pune facility and delivered to Armenia by the end of 2023. As of October 2024, Armenia has expressed interest in procuring an additional 84 units following successful trials.

A trial by fire—literally and figuratively

If there's one thing the Indian Army seems to do with conviction, it's testing indigenous weapons systems to the brink of absurdity. And the ATAGS was no different.

Over five years, the ATAGS underwent a series of rigorous trials, from the scorching heat of Pokhran's desert to the sub-zero temperatures of northern Sikkim. Each phase pushed the limits of the gun, as the Army and its engineers worked relentlessly to address issues, all while facing constant scrutiny and doubts from critics.

The journey started with high hopes in 2016, when the DRDO successfully conducted the first proof firing of the 155mm howitzer. But the road ahead was far from smooth.

In December of the same year, the gun fired its first live ammunition, but it wasn’t until 2017, after an intense series of summer trials in the desert of Pokhran, that the ATAGS truly began to interest the Indian Army.

The gun not only met expectations but exceeded them by setting a new world record for range, hitting 47.2 kilometres and later 48.074 kilometres with high explosive-base bleed rounds—surpassing the capabilities of any artillery gun in its class at the time.

However, the journey of testing was far from just glory. The ATAGS faced its first serious setback in 2020, during user trials, when one of the guns suffered a barrel burst, injuring four personnel. But an investigation revealed that the real cause was faulty ammunition supplied by the Ordnance Factory Board, not an inherent flaw in the ATAGS itself.

This incident momentarily halted the trials but didn't deter the development team. In fact, after a thorough investigation and modifications, the gun was cleared for further testing.

Despite this, the Army wasn’t fully convinced.

The gun, built for versatility across terrains from the Himalayas to the Thar Desert, was criticised for being too heavy, especially for deployment along the Line of Actual Control with China in the Himalayas, where mobility is a challenge.

For the winter trials, the gun was taken to Lukrep, in the plateau regions of North Sikkim, not far from the boundary with China.

This location is of strategic importance, as it offers India access to the Tibetan Plateau and allows for the potential to cut off Chinese access to the Chumbi Valley. The trials in such a sensitive area added a level of geopolitical significance to the testing, beyond mere technical performance.

The journey to Lukrep involved covering a distance of 341 kilometres, testing the ATAGS in one of the harshest environments imaginable. North Sikkim's terrain is notoriously difficult, with steep gradients and narrow hairpin bends that make mobility challenging.

Yet, the ATAGS was able to traverse this otherwise inaccessible landscape with ease. Unlike other artillery systems that would need to be unhooked and moved in a self-propelled mode on such rugged terrain—leading to longer travel times—the ATAGS could remain in its towed configuration and continue to move smoothly, reducing the time spent on this critical operation.

In total, the ATAGS covered 526 kilometres through the mountainous and high-altitude terrain of North Sikkim, a stark contrast to the 23 km mobility test conducted for foreign artillery systems as part of the Army’s search for a towed gun system. But the Army remained unconvinced, and complaints about the ATAGS’ weight persisted.

Another concern raised by the Army regarding the ATAGS, besides its weight, was its perceived inability to meet performance benchmarks, particularly in terms of firing rates.

However, when examining its actual performance, the ATAGS has demonstrated impressive capabilities. It can fire five rounds in one minute in burst mode, 10 rounds in 2.5 minutes during intense firing, and sustain 60 rounds per hour.

In contrast, the competition—Elbit’s ATHOS—while meeting the Army's 15-tonne weight limit, can fire only three rounds in 30 seconds in burst mode, 12 rounds in three minutes during intense firing, and maintain 42 rounds per hour in sustained mode.

An opening for imports?

Although the Army came around and an order for ATAGS has finally come through, the number—307—is only a fraction of the Army's requirement in this category.

This, coupled with the Indian Army Request for Information (RFI) to acquire a 155mm/52 calibre Towed Gun System, issued in late 2022, has sparked speculation about the possibility of opening the door for imports of Elbit’s ATHOS gun, which, at least one report says, "the Army was keen on." The Israeli gun had been in the reckoning for a mega contract from the Indian Army for over a decade.

The RFI issued in December 2022 emphasised that the weight of the gun system “be preferably less than 15 tons,” a specification that aligns with the ATHOS gun's weight. While the ATAGS weighs more than 18 tons, the ATHOS is lighter and meets the Army’s preferred weight limit. This has led many to believe that the new RFI could pave the way for the import of the Israeli-made ATHOS gun.

The process to acquire towed guns began in 2001, as part of the Indian Army’s Field Artillery Rationalisation Plan. Over the decades, several Requests for Proposals (RFPs) have been floated. During the UPA government’s tenure, one such RFP attracted bids from Israel’s Elbit Systems and France’s Nexter. The plan at the time was to acquire 400 guns directly, with an additional 1,180 to be manufactured locally by the Ordnance Factory Board (OFB) through a technology transfer deal.

However, the 155mm x 52 caliber towed artillery gun was included in the first negative list of defence imports, initially set to be embargoed from December 2020. But the cut-off date for this specific category was later extended to December 2021.

Despite the embargo, a provision was introduced allowing the armed forces to procure defence equipment from foreign sources under exceptional circumstances, even if the system was listed in the negative import list.

In 2019, Elbit Systems emerged as the most competitive bidder. However, the DRDO pushed back against importing foreign systems, asserting that the indigenous ATAGS outperformed the ATHOS. Despite this, the Army favoured acquiring 400 ATHOS guns to bolster its capabilities in high-altitude regions along the northern borders.

The Army's insistence on purchasing 400 ATHOS guns was "repeatedly rebuffed" by the government, which saw it as a move that could undermine the growing indigenous artillery design and development ecosystem that had taken shape in recent years.

But the opening for ATHOS remains only in the realm speculation for now.

A new towed gun

The limited order for ATAGS can also be interpreted as a rare instance of the Army embracing iterative development—an approach that has often been overlooked in India’s defence procurement unless driven top-down by the government.

The DRDO has engineered a 155 mm/52 calibre gun barrel featuring a 23-litre chamber, a more compact design compared to the 25-litre chamber found in the ATAGS. This smaller barrel, originally crafted for the DRDO’s Mounted Gun System (MGS), results in a lighter weight. The technology is now being extended to private industry through a Transfer of Technology (ToT) arrangement.

This is interesting, given the Army is seeking a lighter Towed Gun System (TGS) to serve as its primary artillery platform moving forward, targeting a weight of approximately 15 tonnes—significantly less than the ATAGS—while retaining comparable firepower.

DRDO's 23-litre chamber design could be used in a new domestically developed TGS, given its procurement has been approved under the ‘Buy (Indian-IDDM)’ category, which requires sourcing from an Indian vendor for products that are indigenously designed, developed, and manufactured, with at least 50 per cent indigenous content based on the total contract value.

The TGS, as outlined in the Acceptance of Necessity granted in 2023, must achieve a firing range beyond 40 kilometres across various terrains. In high-altitude and mountainous regions, the gun should be capable of engaging targets at a minimum distance of 5 kilometres when firing at high angles. Additionally, it should be compatible with all 155mm ammunition currently used by the Indian Army.

Dead in the tracks no more

The induction of the ATAGS gun would finally and decisively kickstart the long-stalled artillery modernisation plan. Companies like Kalyani Strategic Systems and Tata Advanced Systems have established a robust indigenous ecosystem for designing, developing, and manufacturing artillery systems, providing the Indian Army for the first time with viable alternatives to foreign artillery guns.

Beyond its battlefield capabilities, ATAGS signals something even more consequential: a shift in how India builds its weapons.

It stands as proof that state-owned institutions, with their technological reserves, and private industry, with its agility and drive for innovation, can come together to create capable weapons systems tailored to India’s needs.

Such collaboration, long elusive in India's case, now establishes a precedent that could serve as a model for future defence manufacturing.

There can't be a clearer sign of progress for India’s "Make in India" defence initiative than an indigenous system, developed through collaboration between state-owned and private sectors, making its way into the armed forces to fulfil a critical shortfall.

bhaiyo i literally had a verbal spat with someone, serving / retired army goys, on teligram about this all around covid times, though they didn't explicitly dissed on ATAGS except typical "BEING OVERWEIGHT REEE" rants as talks were about self propelled light arty like Garuda 105mm on that jeep like vehicle - retired goy just literally put it in this words "arey yeh toh chaar-paanch gola daag kar jameen me dhass jaegi" to diss on it 🤷‍♂️ while serving guy (at least by then) was critical of its static gurders or whatever its called (those mechanic arrangements that keep an artillery in place, usually stuck to the ground) as it was some simple frame welded to the vehicle...
the entire talk also spanned to that typical "BABA KALYANI KI GUNZ AND HOWITZERS NOT INDIGENOUS REEE HE BROUGHT GHN-45 PRODUCTION LINE HERE REE AND PUT MODERN MAAL ON IT, SOME ARE SAME COMPONENTS AS ATHOS REE"...unki maane toh indirectly it's better to bring Israeli howitzers than a desi alternative that's got some components from Elbit in it 🤷‍♂️

I even pointed out that even Dhanush has some imported stuff on it, and that Tata made a JV with some phoren company (probably Nexter) to jump onto aatmanirbhartaa bandwagon with their offering in howitzers - but they were adamant that only imported Elbit ATHOS hi chahiye, no half or full baked aatmanirbhar howtizer

also adding it here that, I'm not really sure which gun/howitzer goes on ATHOS, but i very well remember that their Soltam Rascal howitzer literally went "fatt ke flower ho jana" during test here in scorching heats of Rajasthan, even a local gujju newspaper covered it in brief in comparing to Dhanush 155mm/45 cal during its trial days - so if it's same or similar Rascal with Elbit provided autoloaders + components on ATHOS...bhagwan hi bachaye fir toh 🤷‍♂️
 
Last edited:
bhaiyo i literally had a verbal spat with someone, serving / retired army goys, on teligram about this all around covid times, though they didn't explicitly dissed on ATAGS except typical "BEING OVERWEIGHT REEE" rants as talks were about self propelled light arty like Garuda 105mm on that jeep like vehicle - retired goy just literally put it in this words "arey yeh toh chaar-paanch gola daag kar jameen me dhass jaegi" to diss on it 🤷‍♂️ while serving guy (at least by then) was critical of its static gurders or whatever its called (those mechanic arrangements that keep an artillery in place, usually stuck to the ground) as it was some simple frame welded to the vehicle...
the entire talk also spanned to that typical "BABA KALYANI KI GUNZ AND HOWITZERS NOT INDIGENOUS REEE HE BROUGHT GHN-45 PRODUCTION LINE HERE REE AND PUT MODERN MAAL ON IT, SOME ARE SAME COMPONENTS AS ATHOS REE"...unki maane toh indirectly it's better to bring Israeli howitzers than a desi alternative that's got some components from Elbit in it 🤷‍♂️
Indian army gous are the most subverted goys. I have talked to young people i had shared my experience here. I suppose that retired/serving guy might not be getting his share from athos if brought still he is defending it. Without logics this guys need to be taught atmanirbhata in detail it should be taught in army curriculum how logistics can be used for army twisting and all that stuff.
 
the entire talk also spanned to that typical "BABA KALYANI KI GUNZ AND HOWITZERS NOT INDIGENOUS REEE HE BROUGHT GHN-45 PRODUCTION LINE HERE REE AND PUT MODERN MAAL ON IT, SOME ARE SAME COMPONENTS AS ATHOS REE"...unki maane toh indirectly it's better to bring Israeli howitzers than a desi alternative that's got some components from Elbit in it 🤷‍♂️
This criticism of Baba Kalyani literally grinds my gears for reasons like...
ok, Baba Kalyani just threw monies to bring entire assembly line of GHN-45 here and forked Bharat-52 and other artilleries out of that design (including design of gun/howitzer itself)...BUT THEN erstwhile OFB literally brought entire production line of Inglis 9mm pistols which in turn was canadian copy of Browning Hi-Power pistol and desi Pistol Auto 9mm 1A s are serving in our armed forces, paramilitary and police forces just fine (despite those OFB babudumbs never having attempted to even make a better finished version of it let alone modernising it), then those OFB goys also got license + ToT + assembly to make FN MAG 58 here...serving just fine for decades now...then Carl Gustav 84mm RCL too is similar story...

There are countless examples of our seemingly desi production defense maals with phoren origins PAR AB INKO DIKKAT HAI ATAGS / BHARAT-52 / kalyani's 105mm artilleries / MGS and what not :facepalm2:
 
bhaiyo i literally had a verbal spat with someone, serving / retired army goys, on teligram about this all around covid times, though they didn't explicitly dissed on ATAGS except typical "BEING OVERWEIGHT REEE" rants as talks were about self propelled light arty like Garuda 105mm on that jeep like vehicle - retired goy just literally put it in this words "arey yeh toh chaar-paanch gola daag kar jameen me dhass jaegi" to diss on it 🤷‍♂️ while serving guy (at least by then) was critical of its static gurders or whatever its called (those mechanic arrangements that keep an artillery in place, usually stuck to the ground) as it was some simple frame welded to the vehicle...
the entire talk also spanned to that typical "BABA KALYANI KI GUNZ AND HOWITZERS NOT INDIGENOUS REEE HE BROUGHT GHN-45 PRODUCTION LINE HERE REE AND PUT MODERN MAAL ON IT, SOME ARE SAME COMPONENTS AS ATHOS REE"...unki maane toh indirectly it's better to bring Israeli howitzers than a desi alternative that's got some components from Elbit in it 🤷‍♂️

I even pointed out that even Dhanush has some imported stuff on it, and that Tata made a JV with some phoren company (probably Nexter) to jump onto aatmanirbhartaa bandwagon with their offering in howitzers - but they were adamant that only imported Elbit ATHOS hi chahiye, no half or full baked aatmanirbhar howtizer

also adding it here that, I'm not really sure which gun/howitzer goes on ATHOS, but i very well remember that their Soltam Rascal howitzer literally went "fatt ke flower ho jana" during test here in scorching heats of Rajasthan, even a local gujju newspaper covered it in brief in comparing to Dhanush 155mm/45 cal during its trial days - so if it's same or similar Rascal with Elbit provided autoloaders + components on ATHOS...bhagwan hi bachaye fir toh 🤷‍♂️


GENROLS were retarded when we came across the infamous Sniper rifle with bayonet. Them crying about Israeli maal shows they want commission. Meanwhile the infamous Hermes 900 have clearly mediocre endurance hours worse the TAPAS which Army said this is not upto mark.

Meanwhile crying about Bharat Forge muh GHN-45 Production line. Israelis literally copied then French, Russian, American systems to produce their product. GENROLS will die from shame if they hear across this.

Also Israeli weapons were misleading for some time. Their LORA missile stats looks beyond the realm of Physics. Spike got failed in Thar desert in one time. Hermes endurance numbers were way off then what they claim.

Meanwhile ATAGS have all electric drive, steerable wheels for better mobility in narrow mountain roads, APU which allows the entire artillery system to move on its own. Fired everywhere in Leh, Sikkim, Thar Desert, Chennai, Arunachal Pradesh. GENROLS claiming it is overweight is bullshit. When it claims it passed all tests.
 
This criticism of Baba Kalyani literally grinds my gears for reasons like...
ok, Baba Kalyani just threw monies to bring entire assembly line of GHN-45 here and forked Bharat-52 and other artilleries out of that design (including design of gun/howitzer itself)...BUT THEN erstwhile OFB literally brought entire production line of Inglis 9mm pistols which in turn was canadian copy of Browning Hi-Power pistol and desi Pistol Auto 9mm 1A s are serving in our armed forces, paramilitary and police forces just fine (despite those OFB babudumbs never having attempted to even make a better finished version of it let alone modernising it), then those OFB goys also got license + ToT + assembly to make FN MAG 58 here...serving just fine for decades now...then Carl Gustav 84mm RCL too is similar story...

There are countless examples of our seemingly desi production defense maals with phoren origins PAR AB INKO DIKKAT HAI ATAGS / BHARAT-52 / kalyani's 105mm artilleries / MGS and what not :facepalm2:


All Chinese weapons systems traced their origin from Soviet Union weapons. Chinese GENROLS don't care about this. They faced then Sino-Soviet Split which gave them a reality check due to Soviet dependence for weapons. Then they started the incremental upgrade, Eg. F7 is upgraded by removing the problem present in MIG 21. Over the years they gained the knowledge and finally coming with 6th SAMOSA plane.

Meanwhile Star wars GENROLS cry muh import.
 
Meanwhile ATAGS have all electric drive, steerable wheels for better mobility in narrow mountain roads, APU which allows the entire artillery system to move on its own. Fired everywhere in Leh, Sikkim, Thar Desert, Chennai, Arunachal Pradesh. GENROLS claiming it is overweight is bullshit. When it claims it passed all tests.
oh damn this too was discussed on teligram lol how can i even forget bringing this topic here loo

so as per serving (back then at least) guy, it's "possible" that ATAGS became so overweight "because it's got all these HIGH TECH" components on it 🤷‍♂️ PLUS "AGAR YEH ELECTRIC DRIVES LADAI KE TIMES PE FAIL HO GYE TOH ?! AT LEAST HYDRAULICS ARE MECHANICAL, SIMPLER, RELIABLE AND FIELD SERVICEABLE" and what not 🤷‍♂️ - like it was more in tone with 'how dare they made a modern maal above our consumption capabilities'...but i really wonder was there no feedback about 'eh bhai too modern pls gib simple maal' from the armed forces about its design and all to DRDO ?! I'm dead sure unko waisa maal hi chahiye thaa toh yeh log waisa develop karte...ab bann jaane ke baad, trials ho jaane ke baad in muddo par rona dhona?!
There was even minor criticism about some laser operated charge/primer igniter something on ATAGS though I don't know much about it to argue over it

but then again, aren't they already modernising AA guns like L/70 Bofors (Sudarshan CIWS) and Zu-23-2 s with modern drives, radars and all stuffs?

oh and lol, those Shivalik grenades too were criticised by them in similar tone, ki, reee isme toh electronic fuse hai fail gya toh?! (meanwhile them using muh mills bomb in 21st century lol)
 
bhaiyo i literally had a verbal spat with someone, serving / retired army goys, on teligram about this all around covid times, though they didn't explicitly dissed on ATAGS except typical "BEING OVERWEIGHT REEE" rants as talks were about self propelled light arty like Garuda 105mm on that jeep like vehicle - retired goy just literally put it in this words "arey yeh toh chaar-paanch gola daag kar jameen me dhass jaegi" to diss on it 🤷‍♂️ while serving guy (at least by then) was critical of its static gurders or whatever its called (those mechanic arrangements that keep an artillery in place, usually stuck to the ground) as it was some simple frame welded to the vehicle...
the entire talk also spanned to that typical "BABA KALYANI KI GUNZ AND HOWITZERS NOT INDIGENOUS REEE HE BROUGHT GHN-45 PRODUCTION LINE HERE REE AND PUT MODERN MAAL ON IT, SOME ARE SAME COMPONENTS AS ATHOS REE"...unki maane toh indirectly it's better to bring Israeli howitzers than a desi alternative that's got some components from Elbit in it 🤷‍♂️

I even pointed out that even Dhanush has some imported stuff on it, and that Tata made a JV with some phoren company (probably Nexter) to jump onto aatmanirbhartaa bandwagon with their offering in howitzers - but they were adamant that only imported Elbit ATHOS hi chahiye, no half or full baked aatmanirbhar howtizer

also adding it here that, I'm not really sure which gun/howitzer goes on ATHOS, but i very well remember that their Soltam Rascal howitzer literally went "fatt ke flower ho jana" during test here in scorching heats of Rajasthan, even a local gujju newspaper covered it in brief in comparing to Dhanush 155mm/45 cal during its trial days - so if it's same or similar Rascal with Elbit provided autoloaders + components on ATHOS...bhagwan hi bachaye fir toh 🤷‍♂️

This criticism of Baba Kalyani literally grinds my gears for reasons like...
ok, Baba Kalyani just threw monies to bring entire assembly line of GHN-45 here and forked Bharat-52 and other artilleries out of that design (including design of gun/howitzer itself)...BUT THEN erstwhile OFB literally brought entire production line of Inglis 9mm pistols which in turn was canadian copy of Browning Hi-Power pistol and desi Pistol Auto 9mm 1A s are serving in our armed forces, paramilitary and police forces just fine (despite those OFB babudumbs never having attempted to even make a better finished version of it let alone modernising it), then those OFB goys also got license + ToT + assembly to make FN MAG 58 here...serving just fine for decades now...then Carl Gustav 84mm RCL too is similar story...

There are countless examples of our seemingly desi production defense maals with phoren origins PAR AB INKO DIKKAT HAI ATAGS / BHARAT-52 / kalyani's 105mm artilleries / MGS and what not :facepalm2:

oh damn this too was discussed on teligram lol how can i even forget bringing this topic here loo

so as per serving (back then at least) guy, it's "possible" that ATAGS became so overweight "because it's got all these HIGH TECH" components on it 🤷‍♂️ PLUS "AGAR YEH ELECTRIC DRIVES LADAI KE TIMES PE FAIL HO GYE TOH ?! AT LEAST HYDRAULICS ARE MECHANICAL, SIMPLER, RELIABLE AND FIELD SERVICEABLE" and what not 🤷‍♂️ - like it was more in tone with 'how dare they made a modern maal above our consumption capabilities'...but i really wonder was there no feedback about 'eh bhai too modern pls gib simple maal' from the armed forces about its design and all to DRDO ?! I'm dead sure unko waisa maal hi chahiye thaa toh yeh log waisa develop karte...ab bann jaane ke baad, trials ho jaane ke baad in muddo par rona dhona?!
There was even minor criticism about some laser operated charge/primer igniter something on ATAGS though I don't know much about it to argue over it

but then again, aren't they already modernising AA guns like L/70 Bofors (Sudarshan CIWS) and Zu-23-2 s with modern drives, radars and all stuffs?

oh and lol, those Shivalik grenades too were criticised by them in similar tone, ki, reee isme toh electronic fuse hai fail gya toh?! (meanwhile them using muh mills bomb in 21st century lol)
well i generally avoid talking things out of teligram or other discussion groups in public as those spaces allow us for more freer, casual, 'something that can't be/shouldn't be talked in public places' like talks, and I'm really indebted to these fellows for openly discussing with me in whatever capacity possible - going as far as throwing literal maa bhen gaaliya at times to each others lol at times

but i got to see some nuanced sides of theirs that's now criticised for reasons, and I can't help but say this that many stereotypes are indeed true

overall at the end of day I'm just a bloody civilian with a raging blabbermouth while they face things above and beyond our comprehensions so i wish best to them
 
bhaiyo i literally had a verbal spat with someone, serving / retired army goys, on teligram about this all around covid times, though they didn't explicitly dissed on ATAGS except typical "BEING OVERWEIGHT REEE" rants as talks were about self propelled light arty like Garuda 105mm on that jeep like vehicle - retired goy just literally put it in this words "arey yeh toh chaar-paanch gola daag kar jameen me dhass jaegi" to diss on it 🤷‍♂️ while serving guy (at least by then) was critical of its static gurders or whatever its called (those mechanic arrangements that keep an artillery in place, usually stuck to the ground) as it was some simple frame welded to the vehicle...
the entire talk also spanned to that typical "BABA KALYANI KI GUNZ AND HOWITZERS NOT INDIGENOUS REEE HE BROUGHT GHN-45 PRODUCTION LINE HERE REE AND PUT MODERN MAAL ON IT, SOME ARE SAME COMPONENTS AS ATHOS REE"...unki maane toh indirectly it's better to bring Israeli howitzers than a desi alternative that's got some components from Elbit in it 🤷‍♂️

I even pointed out that even Dhanush has some imported stuff on it, and that Tata made a JV with some phoren company (probably Nexter) to jump onto aatmanirbhartaa bandwagon with their offering in howitzers - but they were adamant that only imported Elbit ATHOS hi chahiye, no half or full baked aatmanirbhar howtizer

also adding it here that, I'm not really sure which gun/howitzer goes on ATHOS, but i very well remember that their Soltam Rascal howitzer literally went "fatt ke flower ho jana" during test here in scorching heats of Rajasthan, even a local gujju newspaper covered it in brief in comparing to Dhanush 155mm/45 cal during its trial days - so if it's same or similar Rascal with Elbit provided autoloaders + components on ATHOS...bhagwan hi bachaye fir toh 🤷‍♂️

Former UN General Naravne has almost put his job on stake for ATHOS.

He was being seen as future CDS but ATHOS costed him dearly.

UN Generals and Judiciary are two institutions in India which got total free hand for corruption.
 
at this stage, i believe the crux of ATHOS drama lies in "urgency" (apart from so talked points of army goys getting some benefits from vested interests or related things) - is it possible that Israelis probably produced those howitzers (at least guns if not end product ATHOS itself) in too much numbers than demand for it, found themselves stuck with no orders from any other parties not even IDF itself and facing losses that they're rather eager to sell them to us, with promises of "rapid deliveries" ?
and our side's already wanting newer artilleries in AS SOON AS POSSIBLE tier rapid induction rate so seeing some "hope" in ATHOS here, and doing all shenanigans in return?

so overall arrangement is to get that win-win for both parties ( but would put a death knell to local artillery programs )

just my thoughts so far
 

Latest Replies

Featured Content

Trending Threads

Back
Top