DRDO and PSU's

[randombully]

It only takes a decent brain, a pencil, a paper and roughly a lakh or two rupees to file a patent so just come up with an advanced modular assault rifle or an innovative vertically sliding wedge breech design for artillery that can be used caseless charges.

> License it to private firms. If Indian are not willing to buy it then file a PCT patent and if your intellectual property has novelty then you'll definitely find a buyer in international market.

Can't those other companies also create the designs and patent it?
What's the guarantee that they will create competitively good design that "those big international" companies couldn't come up with?

 

[Bleh]

Finally!

DRDO Seeks Kilo-Class Submarine from Indian Navy for Project-76 Innovations – Indian Defence Research Wing

idrw.org

 

[Ayan Barat]

Can't those other companies also create the designs and patent it?

Definitely, but shouldn't you have an upper hand on those other companies given you're manufacturing arms and ammunition since last 200 years?
You were so ahead of time that when SMLEs were being hand assembled in the original factory of Enfield, you had a semi-automated assembly line here in India for license production?

John M Browning was a machinist apprentice in his father's small gunsmithing workshop. Designed tilting barrel short recoil in 1900 and M2 Browning in 1918. Even after a century, the standard operating mechanism of even the most advanced pistol is still the same short recoil tilting barrel. And M2 is one of the only two heavy machine guns to see AK-47 or AR-15 like widespread use.

Also an interesting fact, in initial days Browning too lacked the capital to start production of his own. So he started licensing his designs to Colt in USA and FN Herstal in Europe before starting his own company, Browning.

What's the guarantee that they will create competitively good design that "those big international" companies couldn't come up with?

Reframe your question around "why" instead of "what"

Despite having centuries of experience, why can't they come up with competitively better design than three guys designing a gun in some shade in Ohio as a hobby?

 

[Bleh]

At DFI I had said multiple times that sea-bed Sonar & Radar arrays can infinitly increase naval home-field advantage! Chinks have done it!

Subs need a wire raised radar & SAMs to engage the anti-sub helps & P-8i

https://www.business-standard.com/amp/external-affairs-defence-security/news/china-claims-first-radar-enabling-submarines-to-destroy-high-flying-jets-125012801187_1.html/

We all know who will be the L1.

View: https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1884830674269745431?t=T2mbL7MmColOsS9d3ZHeiw&s=19

Suar ki aulad genrols & politicians

We don't need Stryker, we have WhAP.

If they wanna export to us, we can get what we can't readily available to ourselves.

 

[Ayan Barat]

Spoiler

 

[Kattar]

Subs need a wire raised radar & SAMs to engage the anti-sub helps & P-8i
https://www.business-standard.com/a...destroy-high-flying-jets-125012801187_1.html/

Chinese now have enough confidence in their institutions to invest in unexplored areas. They will start having breakthroughs in Core Research within a decade.

Their system of governance where they have successfully built two Chinas (One accessible to outsiders and the other only reserved for Chinese) means they will in near future have Chinese products that have no equivalent thanks to exclusive materials or processes.

This will have implications far beyond just defense products as unlike in the west, there will be no ToTs, H1Bs etc available for us to salivate on being Dhandhos and building nameplate only indigenous knock-offs

Only way to prevent Chinese from dominating is to regularly demonstrate we are equivalents or better in multiple domains. Any other strategy is hopium at best. They don't suffer Vishwaguru / Vishwa Bhandhu syndrome.

We are falling behind at the moment, but hope GOI wakes up and opens up purse strings for actual R&D

 

[shade2]

Spoiler

View attachment 23539

M777 howitzer is made by BAE in Yoo Kay
Stryker is made in Ontario, Kaneda by GLDS

You have to get both through US.

i.e Sabka Maalik Ek

 

[shade2]

At DFI I had said multiple times that sea-bed Sonar & Radar arrays can infinitly increase naval home-field advantage! Chinks have done it!

Subs need a wire raised radar & SAMs to engage the anti-sub helps & P-8i

Germans & French already have such wire-guided SAMs
Launched in the same way from torpedo tubes like cruise missiles.

I never understood how they do the targeting though.

 

[fire starter]

dual SOC for pralay & rudram missile.

 

[fire starter]

View: https://x.com/sriramthg/status/1884898314174541972?t=Fxbv7UYRB39z-flpIMk4jg&s=19

 

[randombully]

Definitely, but shouldn't you have an upper hand on those other companies given you're manufacturing arms and ammunition since last 200 years?
You were so ahead of time that when SMLEs were being hand assembled in the original factory of Enfield, you had a semi-automated assembly line here in India for license production?

John M Browning was a machinist apprentice in his father's small gunsmithing workshop. Designed tilting barrel short recoil in 1900 and M2 Browning in 1918. Even after a century, the standard operating mechanism of even the most advanced pistol is still the same short recoil tilting barrel. And M2 is one of the only two heavy machine guns to see AK-47 or AR-15 like widespread use.

Also an interesting fact, in initial days Browning too lacked the capital to start production of his own. So he started licensing his designs to Colt in USA and FN Herstal in Europe before starting his own company, Browning.

Reframe your question around "why" instead of "what"

Despite having centuries of experience, why can't they come up with competitively better design than three guys designing a gun in some shade in Ohio as a hobby?

Century of experience? I don't think thier experience is gonna be useful.
I even doubt current employees can even design a good enough mechanism or design.
My instinct are also leading me to the belief that lots of that that experience is "lost".

 

[Bleh]

Germans & French already have such wire-guided SAMs
Launched in the same way from torpedo tubes like cruise missiles.

I never understood how they do the targeting though.

Data link from surface transponders

 

[NerVik]

Chinese now have enough confidence in their institutions to invest in unexplored areas. They will start having breakthroughs in Core Research within a decade.

Their system of governance where they have successfully built two Chinas (One accessible to outsiders and the other only reserved for Chinese) means they will in near future have Chinese products that have no equivalent thanks to exclusive materials or processes.

This will have implications far beyond just defense products as unlike in the west, there will be no ToTs, H1Bs etc available for us to salivate on being Dhandhos and building nameplate only indigenous knock-offs

Only way to prevent Chinese from dominating is to regularly demonstrate we are equivalents or better in multiple domains. Any other strategy is hopium at best. They don't suffer Vishwaguru / Vishwa Bhandhu syndrome.

We are falling behind at the moment, but hope GOI wakes up and opens up purse strings for actual R&D

This is very much true. I have lost all hope for my country. Everyday I read about more scientific breakthroughs from west and China but India is no where. Even in space exploration we are now where China was 15 years ago. And in 10 years the gap will get even wider.
Modi is an example of how to waste 15 years of mandate. 15 years, and nothing to show for. Everything about Indias achievements the last decade that has been attributed to Modi and his governance is little more than bare minimum, anything less than this and we can compare ourselves to the porkis and kanglus. He hasn't done anything extro ordinary. If anything he has been just a shade above ordinary. 15 years of mandate wasted, dont know if there is a leader more disappointing than him in the recent past. And the worst thing is I don't see anyone else who can be equal to even this level of ordinary, everyone who could succeed him is even more ordinary. This nation is doomed.

 

[Anants]

View: https://x.com/sriramthg/status/1884898314174541972?t=Fxbv7UYRB39z-flpIMk4jg&s=19

originally lca had composite radome. latter they shifted to chobam quartz radome, so that radar can work efficiently

 

[Bleh]

We don't need Stryker, we have WhAP.

If they wanna export to us, we can get what we can't readily available to ourselves.
View attachment 23537
View attachment 23538

View: https://twitter.com/BulldogLau10033/status/1884955725094351205

 

[Ayan Barat]

M777 howitzer is made by BAE in Yoo Kay
Stryker is made in Ontario, Kaneda by GLDS

You have to get both through US.

i.e Sabka Maalik Ek

M777 is not made by BAE-UK.
BAE-UK was the one to come up with, you don't have the industrial base in UK to support these kinds of large scale defence production. Just a third of parts are made in BAE-UK, shipped to BAE-USA, rest of the parts are made and everything is assembled.

If Stryker is made in Canada, then how many Stryker are in service with the Canadian armed forces?
LAV-III is manufactured in Canada and Stryker is in USA. If we were buying LAV-III then there would have been no need to involve USA, but we're not.

NSM is a purely Norwegian design, so much so that even USA has to buy it for testing. Don't get so caught in things like "sabka malik ek/Soros/deep state" that you start missing factuality.

Century of experience? I don't think thier experience is gonna be useful.
I even doubt current employees can even design a good enough mechanism or design.
My instinct are also leading me to the belief that lots of that that experience is "lost".

You're countering my point and then reinforcing the exact thing that I said

But sadly this is not used which means lack of capital is not the only issue here; it runs way deeper.

This was my whole point, that despite being a 200 years old institution people nowadays think "I even doubt current employee can even design a good enough mechanism or design...".
Which means there's something fundamentally wrong going on other than just capital.

 

[Aaj Ka Hero]

https://swarajyamag.com/defence/if-india-must-buy-weapons-from-trump-it-might-as-well-be-smart-about-it

Even Swarajya guy now raising the points that all defence real patriots keep saying.
Many good points in article.
I propose restarting C-17 line, build it in USA and India half-half, orange guy good, we too feel good.
That's pretty good platform.

 

[fire starter]

Plasma Based Stealth Technology.

The reduction and control of Radar Cross-section (RCS) of an object have been attempted by various techniques, including shaping, use of radar absorbing materials, frequency selective surfaces, engineered materials etc. Plasma based RCS reduction is a technique that is associated with the refl ection and absorption of incident EM wave by the plasma layer surrounding the structure whose RCS is to be reduced. This technique is particularly promising because of its wider frequency band of absorption, selective reduction in RCS because of the electron density control and also because there is no alteration in the shape of the target. Figure A.1.23 shows the rectangular and elliptical tiles developed at the institute for the purpose. Plasma Chambers arranged in array are used to produce plasma of appropriate parameters. The experiment to study the absorption of microwave using this technique was carried out in an anechoic chamber, designed and developed at the institute and also in the outside environment to simulate real-life situations (Figure A.1.24). It is observed that the RCS of the metal target is reduced substantially with the introduction of plasma panels of different shapes.

 

[Anants]

Plasma Based Stealth Technology.

The reduction and control of Radar Cross-section (RCS) of an object have been attempted by various techniques, including shaping, use of radar absorbing materials, frequency selective surfaces, engineered materials etc. Plasma based RCS reduction is a technique that is associated with the refl ection and absorption of incident EM wave by the plasma layer surrounding the structure whose RCS is to be reduced. This technique is particularly promising because of its wider frequency band of absorption, selective reduction in RCS because of the electron density control and also because there is no alteration in the shape of the target. Figure A.1.23 shows the rectangular and elliptical tiles developed at the institute for the purpose. Plasma Chambers arranged in array are used to produce plasma of appropriate parameters. The experiment to study the absorption of microwave using this technique was carried out in an anechoic chamber, designed and developed at the institute and also in the outside environment to simulate real-life situations (Figure A.1.24). It is observed that the RCS of the metal target is reduced substantially with the introduction of plasma panels of different shapes.
View attachment 23561

How are you going to sustain plasma around flying object? unless object can travel high hypersonic - then plasma shall anyway surround most of the frontal part of object

 

[Ayan Barat]

How are you going to sustain plasma around flying object

+ How are you going to manage the huge spike in EM emissions that can now be detected by even a simple dipole antenna attached to a spectrometer?

+ How are you going to deal with the massive heat signature of air molecules heating up by plasma?

+ Plasma is supposed to create a layer around the plane that'll absorb-scatter the incoming RF waves of radar. How are the outgoing RF waves of the plane (radar, altimeter, SatCom, radio, ESM, ECM) supposed to penetrate this layer?