Failed Terrorist Beggar State of Pakistan: Idiotic Musings (26 Viewers)

[angryindian]

Did it increase from 58 percent? Is it increasing or constant now?

The situation of literacy in pakistan can be best described as a disaster. Pakistan's literacy rate was 54% in 2006, and it has barely increased by 6% in 18 years

 

[dr.defence]

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Pakistanis doing engineering idiots @Baibers_1260

If Pakistanis are into genuine innovation in defense and aerospace than ostrich is into flying rhino is into swimming whales are into flying and I can live without oxygen

 

[FalconSlayers]

The situation of literacy in pakistan can be best described as a disaster. Pakistan's literacy rate was 54% in 2006, and it has barely increased by 6% in 18 years

Only if you take their numbers seriously, they themselves have no idea about their own socio-economic conditions. Economy is screwed, population growth is very high and not enough schools coming up due to lack of money with both people and government.





And it's their economic survey data, not even two different surveys.

Pakistan’s literacy rate hits 60%: Economic survey 2024–25

The Economic Survey 2024–25 has revealed key insights into Pakistan’s education sector, showing modest progress in literacy but underscoring

www.nation.com.pk

 

[FalconSlayers]

In other news, paxtan's education spending by both central and state governments has plummeted to 0.8% of GDP i.e. some ~$3.2 billion for a country of 260 million, and given how majority of their kids are out of school, their private spending on education can also be better guessed by ya'll.

Economic Survey 2024-25: Education spending plummets to 0.8pc of GDP

Literacy rate at 60pc; primary enrolment increased by 3.2pc.

www.dawn.com

By the way India's education spending is around 4.6% of GDP i.e. almost $200 billion by central and state governments, excluding private spending by citizens. Which tbh, for a country of 1.4 billion isn't that great.

India allocates up to 4.6% of GDP in education, higher than many in region, says Unesco | India News - The Times of India

India News: From 2015 to 2024, India allocated 4.1% to 4.6% of its GDP to education, meeting international benchmarks. Despite global declines in education invest

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

Again, this is their condition after receiving $40 billion in annual remittances, apart from EU's GSP+ quota that helps whatever little industry they have. It's a proper banana republic.

 

[redpanda]

Only if you take their numbers seriously, they themselves have no idea about their own socio-economic conditions. Economy is screwed, population growth is very high and not enough schools coming up due to lack of money with both people and government.

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And it's their economic survey data, not even two different surveys.

Pakistan’s literacy rate hits 60%: Economic survey 2024–25

The Economic Survey 2024–25 has revealed key insights into Pakistan’s education sector, showing modest progress in literacy but underscoring

www.nation.com.pk

View attachment 41434

Plus their parameters to check literacy is quite bad. They basically consider anyone who can recite some religious verses as literate. I mean even an illiterate individual can recite Kalma. Such a person in India would be considered illiterate but in Pakistan that person will be considered literate. So there is that as well. I doubt their literacy rate is beyond 40%.

 

[FalconSlayers]

Plus their parameters to check literacy is quite bad. They basically consider anyone who can recite some religious verses as literate. I mean even an illiterate individual can recite Kalma. Such a person in India would be considered illiterate but in Pakistan that person will be considered literate. So there is that as well. I doubt their literacy rate is beyond 40%.

Nah I don't think so. Their definition is normal, ability to read and write with basic mathematical calculation skills.

Govt redefines literacy for count | The Express Tribune

The government has expanded definition of literacy by incorporating in it the basic numeracy skills

tribune.com.pk

 

[Simon Riley]

jungjoo punjabi mard e momin has never lost a war.

 

[Simon Riley]

Found @shade2's competition for meme names

 

[Indx TechStyle]

Only if you take their numbers seriously, they themselves have no idea about their own socio-economic conditions. Economy is screwed, population growth is very high and not enough schools coming up due to lack of money with both people and government.

View attachment 41432
View attachment 41433


And it's their economic survey data, not even two different surveys.

Pakistan’s literacy rate hits 60%: Economic survey 2024–25

The Economic Survey 2024–25 has revealed key insights into Pakistan’s education sector, showing modest progress in literacy but underscoring

www.nation.com.pk

View attachment 41434

Pakistan hasn't conducted a census for 45 years and doesn't know anything about its actual population and economics.

All the data on socio economics are just random surveys which change quickly.
Consumption data suggests it's a <$1000-1200 per capita GDP LDC country.

 

[FalconSlayers]

Pakistan hasn't conducted a census for 45 years and doesn't know anything about its actual population and economics.

All the data on socio economics are just random surveys which change quickly.
Consumption data suggests it's a <$1000-1200 per capita GDP LDC country.

On contrary, "production" suggests it's even lower, as consumption is fuelled by remittances and debt only. Look at the revenues generated by their corporates. In banking and finance alone, the revenue difference is near 9-10x per capita, worse in case of IT sector. On top of that their automobile production and value additions are pretty negligible. Won't be an exaggeration to say their GDP per capita at best is $600 to $700 by all means.

 

[eastern_bhartiya]

On contrary, "production" suggests it's even lower, as consumption is fuelled by remittances and debt only. Look at the revenues generated by their corporates. In banking and finance alone, the revenue difference is near 9-10x per capita, worse in case of IT sector. On top of that their automobile production and value additions are pretty negligible. Won't be an exaggeration to say their GDP per capita at best is $600 to $700 by all means.

nah, you're ignoring all the undokyumented ekanami stats, like all the undocumented supercars they ride made by all those hi-tech plants you can see on youtube.

 

[MasterChief_949]

undocumented ecaaanamyy is the answer for all paki problems from time immemorable

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

Pakistan hasn't conducted a census for 45 years and doesn't know anything about its actual population and economics.

All the data on socio economics are just random surveys which change quickly.
Consumption data suggests it's a <$1000-1200 per capita GDP LDC country.

On this count we are not better either. We have not conducted a census for 15 years. No one fully knows how far we have come. The SDG rankings are a good way to see that we have progressed quite a bit. Though we need to strive to become part of top 50 in SDG rankings. China is in top 50 I think.

 

[pythonlover]

I asked ChatGPT a series of questions estimate Pakistan's GDP and then to clarify on them :

Compare production data of various goods and services and consumption data of various durable and non-durable commodities (electricity, car, motorcycle, refrigerator, AC etc) between India and Pakistan. Also assuming India's GDP data to be true, estimate what would be the realistic GDP data for Pakistan on the basis of differences in consumption and production data.

Its response was :

Alright — let’s tackle this carefully, step by step, because this is a big macroeconomic estimation exercise.

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Step 2: Latest broad facts (approximate — based on 2024-25 estimates)​

Metric	India	Pakistan
Population	~1.43 billion	~240 million
GDP (nominal)	~$3.7 trillion USD	~$350 billion USD
Per capita GDP	~$2,600 USD	~$1,400 USD

---

Step 3: Example comparisons​

1. Electricity​

• India: ~1,750-1,800 TWh/year generation
• Pakistan: ~140-150 TWh/year generation
  So, Pakistan’s electricity production is ~8% of India’s, even though its population is ~17% of India’s.

---

2. Automobiles​

Passenger cars sold annually:

• India: ~4 million units/year
• Pakistan: ~100,000-150,000 units/year
  → ~3% of India’s level

Motorcycles sold annually:

• India: ~17 million units/year
• Pakistan: ~2-2.5 million units/year
  → ~12-15% of India’s level

---

3. Consumer durables (approx.):​

• Fridges: India’s annual market ~15-18 million units; Pakistan ~1-2 million units
• Air conditioners: India sells ~7-8 million units/year; Pakistan ~500,000-1 million units/year

---

Step 4: What does this imply?​

Durables & electricity usage:

• For electricity, which is a good proxy for industrial and residential activity, Pakistan is at ~8% of India.
• For consumer durables and vehicles, Pakistan is mostly at 3-15% of India.

So the average range is:

Pakistan’s per capita consumption is about 10–20% of India’s for key durables & energy, with some items lower (cars) and some higher (motorcycles).

---

Step 5: Population scaling​

Pakistan has ~17% of India’s population.
So, if Pakistan had the same per capita consumption, its GDP would be 17% of India’s ($630 billion).
But actual per capita consumption for many things is 50–70% of India’s level, because:

• Services sector is smaller
• Informal economy is larger but less productive
• Energy & industrial base is less developed
• Remittances add a bit, but not enough to offset structural gaps

---

Step 6: Rough estimate​

Putting it together:

• Population factor: ~17% of India’s population
• Per capita factor: 50–70% of India’s per capita real productivity

So, rough estimate for Pakistan’s realistic GDP:

$3.7 trillion (India) × 0.17 (population) × 0.5–0.7 (per capita gap)
≈ $310–440 billion

Which is roughly in line with its official GDP (~$350 billion).
So, your approach confirms that Pakistan’s GDP is not drastically underreported. It matches what its consumption & production structure supports.

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Key takeaways​

• Production & consumption data (electricity, cars, durables) show Pakistan operates at about 10–20% of India’s scale for key economic drivers.
• Population-adjusted, that means per capita GDP is about 50–70% of India’s (which matches the official gap).
• So, unless there is massive informal sector underreporting, Pakistan’s actual GDP is quite close to official estimates.

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Here ChatGPT estimated Pakistan's actual GDP data to be close to its official estimate. But there was a flaw. Despite it estimating Pakistan's various consumption data to be 10-20% of India, it estimated final consumption of all goods and services to be 50-70%, without any basis, and in fact, as you will see using Pakistan's narrative papers to justify it. So I asked it how it estimated final consumption data to be 50-70% (not giving the detailed answer).

Here it changed the estimation and estimated the consumption level to be 40-50% of India's and estimated the GDP to be $250-300 billion. Now I again asked it to change the method (next post).

Your bottom-up test holds up: Using real commodity consumption + agriculture + FMCG shows the true per capita output is closer to 40–50%, not 50–70%.
This means the “productive” GDP is more like ~$250–300 billion — unless you count informal cash churn and rent imputation as equivalent to genuine value-add.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

On this count we are not better either. We have not conducted a census for 15 years.

AFAIK, 15 < 45.
Also,
MOSPI, Economic Survey and Labour Ministries nevertheless have been collecting and acting on data nevertheless.

Census delay in our case is not administrative and financial weakness but a structural choice.


So yes, we are better. It's a one of case for us by choice. Lack of census in Pakistan is a result of lack of administrative competency of government.

 

[pythonlover]

Now my 2nd question. I essentially asked it to use income method to estimate Pakistan's GDP.

But how can Pakistan's economy be worth $350 billion when it doesn't have any signficant industrial base except somewhat in textile? It also isn't a top producer of any agricultural good. Revenue of various sectors in services is miniscule. It has handful of firms with more than $1 billion in market cap and very few billionares. Innovation and research is non-existent. Exports of goods and services are near stagnant and nearly 20 times less than India. Literacy rate is 60% and it has the largest number of children out of school. Then how is its GDP worth $350 billion. Kindly use income method and use revenue of various sectors like banking, tourism, hotels, automobiles etc to estimate GDP.

Here is the response :

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Let’s check real world numbers​

1. Agriculture​

Pakistan’s agriculture is mostly wheat, rice, cotton, sugarcane, livestock.

• Wheat: ~25 million tonnes × $250/tonne = ~$6 billion
• Rice: ~8 million tonnes × $400/tonne = ~$3 billion
• Cotton: ~5 million bales (~1 million tonnes) × $2,000/tonne = ~$2 billion
• Sugarcane: huge volume but low value. Let’s say ~$1-2 billion.
• Livestock/dairy: This is big — possibly ~$25–30 billion (milk, meat, poultry, hides).

So total agriculture & livestock: ~$35–40 billion.
(This lines up with the fact that agri is ~20–22% of GDP.)

---

2. Industry​

Mainly:

• Textiles: $12–15 billion in exports, maybe another $2–3 billion for domestic. So ~$15–18 billion.
• Cement, fertilizer, chemicals: modest — maybe $5–7 billion.
• Construction: limited but urban real estate adds up — say $10–15 billion.
• Mining, energy, oil & gas: production of oil & gas, coal, minerals. Modest scale — ~$5–7 billion.

So total industry: maybe $35–45 billion.

---

3. Services​

Now this is where people tend to overestimate Pakistan’s services. Let’s check:

Sector	Approx. annual revenue	Note
Banking & finance	~$5–7 billion	modest asset base; profits lower than Indian banks
Telecom	~$3–4 billion	all major telcos combined
Transport/logistics	~$5–10 billion	domestic trucking, PIA, ports
Retail & wholesale	~$30–40 billion	large informal retail — groceries, small shops
Public admin/defence	~$10–12 billion	big, but much is wages
Education & health (private)	~$5–7 billion	significant but fragmented
Tourism & hotels	<$1 billion	extremely small — no big int’l inflow

So total services: maybe $60–80 billion, realistically.

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4. Adding it up: rough base​

Sector	Low end	High end
Agriculture	$35B	$40B
Industry	$35B	$45B
Services	$60B	$80B
Total	$130B	$165B

So using a basic income method, the visible economic activity adds up to $130–165 billion, not $350 billion.

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So why does the official GDP come out higher?​

1. Large informal economy: 40–50% of GDP is estimated to be informal cash economy — small shops, cash-based trade, undocumented real estate, unregistered services.
2. Owner-occupied housing: GDP counts imputed rent for houses. In many countries, this can add 10–15% to GDP.
3. Underreporting of agricultural incomes: Many farm incomes are unrecorded but included in national accounts.
4. Low tax collection: Tax-to-GDP ratio is just ~9–10%, so you can’t easily verify the true scale.
5. Remittances: They are counted in the current account, not GDP, but they sustain local demand that feeds into GDP.

---

Does this imply GDP is overstated?​

Partly yes. If you do a strict “income method” using actual reported revenue, Pakistan’s GDP is probably closer to $150–200 billion in truly measurable activity. The rest is:

• Imputed informal value-add
• Undocumented transactions
• Owner-occupied housing
• Shadow retail & wholesale trade

The productivity per capita is therefore extremely low.


Here it estimated Pakisan's GDP to be $150-200 billion to be true measure using the income method. It still gave the "undocumented" churan, arguing 40-50% of informal cash economy. So I agan asked another question.

 

[pythonlover]

This time my question was :

You have claimed underreported and informal portion of Pakistan's economy several times, without any proof or data to support it is so. You are also neglecting the same for India.

Response :​

The best empirical estimates come from:

• State Bank of Pakistan (SBP) reports
• Academic research papers
• World Bank and IMF working papers

A frequently cited range is:
Pakistan’s informal economy is estimated at ~30–40% of official GDP

Sources:

• Farooq and Ahmed (2021), SBP Working Paper: estimate ~35–40%
• IMF & ADB reports: often quote ~30–40%
• FBR (Pakistan’s tax authority) says ~35% of GDP is “undocumented”.

So if Pakistan’s official GDP is ~$350 billion:

• The shadow economy might add ~$100–140 billion more.

See the sources. All the sources claiming informal GDP to be 30-40% is from Pakistan itself. I am sure IMF & ADB also used Paki sources in its papers. But then it gave further correct response :

BUT:
This informal value is already partially imputed into GDP when statisticians estimate total household consumption, retail trade, and services.
So the idea that it’s “invisible extra GDP” is wrong — it’s already counted in the national accounts. The real problem is that it’s untaxed, not that it’s “missing”.

The informal economy does exist, but it’s already counted in household consumption, services, and unregistered businesses — it’s just not taxed or fully recorded in the formal sector.
The claim that Pakistan’s real GDP is much bigger than official data does not hold up when you check FMCG, energy, industrial output, and services revenue.
If anything, the real economy might be overstated if national accounts rely on old base year estimates or don’t adjust for stagnant sectors.

It highlighted that just because some part of GDP is informal, it doesn't mean that it is uncounted. IT IS COUNTED IN NATIONAL ACCOUNTS.

 

[pythonlover]

Summary of my last few posts for lazy people and those who are "I ain't reading that" :

1. I asked ChatGPT to estimate Pakistan's GDP using its production and consumption data and comparing it with India. It magically estimated Pakistan's per capita data to be 50-70% of India and estimated Pakistan's GDP to be $350 billion.
2. I asked how it reached the conclusion of 50-70% of per capita consumption of India, it readjusted the per capita consumption to 40-50% and then estimated Pakistan's GDP to be $250 billion.
3. Then I asked it to use income method to estimate Pakistan's GDP, which it estimated visible GDP to be $150-$200 billion, after INCLUDING THE "UNDOKYUMENTED ECANAMY" to align with official data.
4. Then I asked it what is the source of including the vast "undocumented economy" and it replied mainly with Paki sources. So it bought the Paki churan.
5. Then it clarified that undocumented does not mean uncounted. Informal part of the economy is counted in national accounts through various methods. So the claim of having huge "undakyumented ecanamy" is likely false.

Country	Gross revenue big?	Real value add big?	Transparent data?	Reliable GDP?
India	Huge	Large modern sector, high VA	Strong	Official GDP aligns
Pakistan	Modest	Low VA, mostly informal	Patchy	Official GDP likely overstated

THANK YOU FOR YOUR ATTENTION TO THIS MATTER.