GTRE GTX 35VS Kaveri

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Azaad said:
All their so called indigenous TF programs are copies of the Ukrainian firm Motor Sich designs for high bypass TFs which they're trying desperately to convert into low bypass TFs.

At best even if they succeed these would be 3rd Gen TFs on par with the AL-31 we've been mfg for nearly 2 decades in house to power our MKIs where we've not only indigenized a substantial part of the TF by way of components but also increased the life time of these TFs to nearly 3000 hours from the original 500-1000 hours if I'm not mistaken.

If designing & developing a low bypass TF was that easy do you think China & India are fools for having spent all those resources including billions in case of China apart from nearly 4-5 decades & numerous industrial espionage programs to master the technology.
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From what I have read from Turkish sources the priority is to avoid depending on a US engine for KAAN. A passable engine developed in Turkiye meets that requirement. The TF35000 engine aims to produce more thrust than KAAN requires as an insurance that if it falls short on thrust it can still be useable.

Step 1
Design, build, test, certify a 6000lb dry thrust engine.

Step 2
Design, build, test, certify a 10000lb wet thrust engine.

Step 3
Design, build, test, certify a 35000lb wet thrust engine. If it falls 10%-15% short on design thrust it still produces enough thrust to be used in KAAN.

From what I hear Turkiye is not aiming to develop a state of the art engine, just a useable engine under its sovereign control.
 
Spitfire IX said:
From what I have read from Turkish sources the priority is to avoid depending on a US engine for KAAN. A passable engine developed in Turkiye meets that requirement. The TF35000 engine aims to produce more thrust than KAAN requires as an insurance that if it falls short on thrust it can still be useable.

Step 1
Design, build, test, certify a 6000lb dry thrust engine.

Step 2
Design, build, test, certify a 10000lb wet thrust engine.

Step 3
Design, build, test, certify a 35000lb wet thrust engine. If it falls 10%-15% short on design thrust it still produces enough thrust to be used in KAAN.
Click to expand...

It's iterative development. That's the way to go. Then comes refinement of the technology. No country has achieved both in the timescales the Turks are giving out.
Spitfire IX said:
From what I hear Turkiye is not aiming to develop a state of the art engine, just a useable engine under its sovereign control.
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Then it's not a 5th Gen TF . It's as simple as that . It's like India powering the AMCA with the F-414 TF which is at best a short term measure before the 120 KN TF is realised preferably thru a JV with a recognised OEM.

It's what the Russians & Chinese did with their respective 5th Gen FAs before the definitive 5th Gen TF materialised. Sorry to break it to you , but what the Turks are pursuing is a sub optimal solution except they aren't advertising it as such . Hype doesn't equal substance. Never has , never will.

Besides no country has gone from making an jet trainer to a 5th Gen FA working simultaneously on both of them aiming to bring it out within a decade of each other. Either they're running a con game or they're into self deception.
 
Spitfire IX said:
From what I have read from Turkish sources the priority is to avoid depending on a US engine for KAAN. A passable engine developed in Turkiye meets that requirement. The TF35000 engine aims to produce more thrust than KAAN requires as an insurance that if it falls short on thrust it can still be useable.

Step 1
Design, build, test, certify a 6000lb dry thrust engine.

Step 2
Design, build, test, certify a 10000lb wet thrust engine.

Step 3
Design, build, test, certify a 35000lb wet thrust engine. If it falls 10%-15% short on design thrust it still produces enough thrust to be used in KAAN.

From what I hear Turkiye is not aiming to develop a state of the art engine, just a useable engine under its sovereign control.
Click to expand...
Before making any claim i would like to see what are Turks in terms of material development w.r.t jet engine
And other factors machines etc
 
Spitfire IX said:
From what I hear Turkiye is not aiming to develop a state of the art engine, just a usable engine under its sovereign control.
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Even this is out of the question for turks. They won't build an indigenous F110 equivalent on their own. I don't see turks coming up with a turkish engine capable enough to power the KAAN. They might try scaling up the AI-322. But the AI-322 has barely over 1500 hours of engine life, with overhauls every 700 hours. Already an outdated engine for the Kizilelma drone. What they will end up doing is, reverse engineering the F110 like china initially did with AL-31s, and produce an uprated hackjob with a shorter engine life. Otherwise the KAAN is as dead as the Altay MBT. Unlike China who thew massive amounts of cash to improve and exceed their initial copy pasta engines, turks neither have the funding nor the expertise to simultaneously achieve any of their milestones in such a short timeframe. And this is something the BAE and Leonardo "consultants" can't help them with.​
Savageking456 said:
Before making any claim i would like to see what are Turks in terms of material development w.r.t jet engine
And other factors machines etc
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Whatever they got from Ivchenko-Progress. turks are masters of "fake it till you make it", they have a highly inflated sense of self-worth, a deep desire to be seen as europeans, and a panicky urge to stay useful in the eyes of NATO overlords.​
 
Azaad said:
It's iterative development. That's the way to go. Then comes refinement of the technology. No country has achieved both in the timescales the Turks are giving out.

Then it's not a 5th Gen TF . It's as simple as that . It's like India powering the AMCA with the F-414 TF which is at best a short term measure before the 120 KN TF is realised preferably thru a JV with a recognised OEM.

It's what the Russians & Chinese did with their respective 5th Gen FAs before the definitive 5th Gen TF materialised. Sorry to break it to you , but what the Turks are pursuing is a sub optimal solution except they aren't advertising it as such . Hype doesn't equal substance. Never has , never will.

Besides no country has gone from making an jet trainer to a 5th Gen FA working simultaneously on both of them aiming to bring it out within a decade of each other. Either they're running a con game or they're into self deception.
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I feel sure that the government of Turkiye is happy to dupe its citizens by hyping its 'national fighter' project to its public. I don't think it can deliver useable fighters to the TuAF in 2028 as promised. They might deliver fighter-shaped aircraft that can take off, fly and land but not do much else.

Turkiye is in the position India finds itself in. It needs fighters. As India did in 2016, it will probably buy some interim European fighters. The expected 40 Eurofighters may grow to a larger number if development of KAAN systems falls seriously behind schedule or the US cuts engine supply for KAAN.

However, nothing is certain. Turkiye appears to be moving away from democracy to dictatorship. The Eurofighter partners may stop unanimously agreeing to supply Turkiye or may not agree in the first place. Trump may allow Turkiye to be supplied with F-35. Turkiye already has a few being held in the US.
 
Ajatshatru said:
Keep putting pressure on the Indian government to declare the Kaveri engine a national project. Every citizen in India needs to understand the importance of developing a domestic jet engine. People must be reminded of the immense amount of money that can be saved if the Kaveri engine succeeds. If issues like black money, the Rafale deal, Bofors, and AgustaWestland can become national debates, then why not the Kaveri engine?
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Modi sirf politics ki bhasha samajhta hai. See the CAGR of growth in subsidies, in SC/ST ministries, has gone back on privatisation.

This time also course corrected on screwed taxation on middle class because of pressure that was created.

He is a completely political animal in this regard. Everything needs to be shown from showbazi perspective or how important that is politically. In the conflict also he didnt let his virtue signalling go, one SC and Women and another Minority and women were chose to be the face of it all.

So, dont tell him, why this or that is important for India's defense, make the issue politically important and relevent. And trending Kaveri was perfect, this shouldnt be the last either.
Issues should be identified and should be made massy, should be made a trend and you will see this guy respond.

You should know, we dont have a defense minister at command, neither Rajnath is active that he will do something himself, nor Modi will allow him to take credit if something good happens either. A proper defense minister thing is now a decade old thing ( Parrikar Ji), General Rawat was also one who was into reforms and things, this current one General Chouhan looks likes to be in the same role as Nadda as BJP president, na kuch na kuch bolo.

And opposition to maha mc hai. wahan se koi umeed na hai, na agle 100 sal kar sakte hain. We have to create the friction ourselves. We have to make indianisation politically rewarding and the politician will respond. Rawat gaye, theatrisation of Indian military abruptly stopped, and many such reforms are in standstill.

MOD babu bad, drdo bad se na hona hai kuch.
 
Savageking456 said:
Ghatak airframe is already ready
It needs dry kaveri
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bhai ghatak ka file abhi bhi ADE prepare hi kar raha hai ccs ke liye, mp agle saal ccs ke saamne present hoga, and no tenders yet for ghatak fuselage manufacturing, and dry kaveri hasnt even started ftb trials or hatf trials at vodkaland, ghatak would come mp by 2028 or 2029, sad truth
 
and i dont understand that these arts babus are such a foolish scum, they think firms with 0 r&d history will create a 120KN engine??? mf we are doubtful that even GTRE alone cannot do it with funding in given time, given it has immense experience now, we need to catch a phoren engine player and give the JV money and extract all the tech

L&T chairman is foolish who thinks that 1900K TET materials and coating can be developed with people who dont have R&D history, neither godrej can do nor azad, they have manufacturing expertise

i dont want to sound pessimistic but increase funding for drdo overall and gtre too, sanction kaveri 2 which will produce 90KN and increase recruitment so that more manpower would be there for r&d

againt not to forget, the most important lab, DMRL, it has to develop the metallurgy necessary and processes to manufacture it and coating and all, they too need funding

rest still rope in godrej, ptc metals, midhani, azad for manufacturing ecosystem
 
Spitfire IX said:
From what I have read from Turkish sources the priority is to avoid depending on a US engine for KAAN. A passable engine developed in Turkiye meets that requirement. The TF35000 engine aims to produce more thrust than KAAN requires as an insurance that if it falls short on thrust it can still be useable.

Step 1
Design, build, test, certify a 6000lb dry thrust engine.

Step 2
Design, build, test, certify a 10000lb wet thrust engine.

Step 3
Design, build, test, certify a 35000lb wet thrust engine. If it falls 10%-15% short on design thrust it still produces enough thrust to be used in KAAN.

From what I hear Turkiye is not aiming to develop a state of the art engine, just a useable engine under its sovereign control.
Click to expand...
Do the Turkish gave a planning ?
A fighter engine is another beast than a Helo one or a MBT motor, and remember how they struggle with BATU engine :arjun:
 
FalconSlayers said:
Kaveri engine undergoing trials in Russia, to power Indian combat UAV
Read more At:


From the ANI article
View attachment 37490View attachment 37491
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Man, kaveri trials, i am crying, i want our mods to sponsor tissue papers for all of us who started crying when we read this

Finally we will get to hear that kaveri has achieved its dry run saxsuxfully, waiting for afterburner mating and full trials so that we get to see kaveri flying in tejas

Letsss gooooooooo, lets mf gooooooooo
Kaveri trials, ftb trialsssss, lets gooooooo pandchod paki teri behn ki, ab dekh hamara jazba
 
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