IAF's Sukhoi Su-30MKI

[Bhartiya Sainik]

Whats lacking is: Synergy between three, goal focus, believing in ambition to self stand in weapons and ammunition.

Our Su-30MKI is yet to be seen with MAWS-DAS like Su-35-S. Ultimately all Su-3X globally are going to be hazardous with their shape, RCS, no matter what is done (economically).
We know the timeline of our 5gen AMCA's IOC to be around 2035.
Now we should gather the heads of MoD, IAF, DRDO, ADA, HAL & ask them "Enough of nostalgic sentiments on obsolete products. Tell us what is 6gen roadmap & timeline, till then we won't let you go"

 

[DumbPilot]

Whats lacking is: Synergy between three, goal focus, believing in ambition to self stand in weapons and ammunition.

to be fair, these things take a lot of time(and they are very complex)

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

to be fair, these things take a lot of time(and they are very complex)

War happens suddenly, doesn't give time, that's very unfair.
Doing our own R&D & catching global developments a.s.a.p., absorbing more professionals & increasing our capacity, are the only way out.

 

[r8rdarklord]

You are American or NRI?
Having govt. job security is there in Western countries also, right?
There is this 1998 Hollywood movie "Pentagon Wars" which tells that basic human nature is same everywhere. But Western people in present era are relatively more management oriented.
HAL was initially private firm but became PSU. It is just a manufacturer, not designer, making all the types of aircrafts.
It is very difficult to for us common citizens to find out where exactly is the problem, bcoz IAF blames HAL; HAL might blame ADA; ADA might blame GoI/MoD/IAF. It is a vicious circle.
I think a transparent joint press conference with straight questions to these bodies is yet to happen.

I live in the US, and nobody with any skills seeks a Govt job. Govt. org. are the most inefficient, low-paying jobs that one can file unless you are in some strategic areas, e.g., law enforcement, firefighter, etc. Even with all kinds of enticement, people don't want to join the military. The people here are conditioned to equate Govt. with incompetence.

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

I live in the US, and nobody with any skills seeks a Govt job. Govt. org. are the most inefficient, low-paying jobs that one can file unless you are in some strategic areas, e.g., law enforcement, firefighter, etc. Even with all kinds of enticement, people don't want to join the military. The people here are conditioned to equate Govt. with incompetence.

In capitalist nation with high privatisation, the govt. will obviously look bad. NASA has done well & US govt. agencies have done lots of R&D but military products come from private companies. Here ISRO has done well & DRDO does the R&D but i guess we may be drifting towards Western military setup for products.
But living standard in West is far better than here.
If negotiated well then Private sector pays more bcoz they don't give pension & there's no guarantee of gratuity unless someone sticks in a company for 5 years. Many people instead of saving that more money for retirement, waste on overbudgeted things.
Govt. job is supposed to give grade-wise pay, residence, medical facilities, transport, etc which private sector may or may not give, may or may not charge extra. Pvt. Sec. HRs try to dupe & cheat everyone during recruitment.
In Private sector, people can overtake others, which in govt. job could be more tough.

 

[r8rdarklord]

The Govt. agencies in the US are bad, nobody here trusts the Govt. to even make a toilet at a reasonable cost. NASA has done well, but at what costs? This is the problem with DRDO as well in India. Privatize the PSUs, make them compete, and let them hire the DRDO scientists to do the R&D. After all, the research in weapons manufacturing is already there, except that it's done by somebody else. The PSU setup was copied from the Britishers, but guess what they have ditched it. India, on the other hand, is tittering along with a dated setup. The private sector has the ability to pay way more to competent people that's the way that succeeds - people need to feel the pressure that they could be let go if they or their division doesn't deliver the goods.

 

[DumbPilot]

War happens suddenly, doesn't give time, that's very unfair.
Doing our own R&D & catching global developments a.s.a.p., absorbing more professionals & increasing our capacity, are the only way out.

While rhetoric is nice and we should indeed move to our own R&D(what makes you think we aren't?), the result of that still takes time to materialize. speaking as an outsider to the defense industry, I believe we can equate it to how things move in the software world. A lot of time is spent on development, validation and then testing before any new product is signed off, and even then feasiblity studies are conducted on that.

On the other hand, we're talking about planes, and the integration of payload, capability, performance, weapons, ... here - a tad bit more advanced, don't you think?

The original lamentation of this chain of replies was about the slow speed of HAL(at what? plane design? plane manufacturing? plane testing?) and how privatization would help it. I'm sure we're all seeing how the privately manufactured Indian drones are doing at the LAC.

 

[DumbPilot]

The Govt. agencies in the US are bad, nobody here trusts the Govt. to even make a toilet at a reasonable cost. NASA has done well, but at what costs? This is the problem with DRDO as well in India. Privatize the PSUs, make them compete, and let them hire the DRDO scientists to do the R&D. After all, the research in weapons manufacturing is already there, except that it's done by somebody else. The PSU setup was copied from the Britishers, but guess what they have ditched it. India, on the other hand, is tittering along with a dated setup. The private sector has the ability to pay way more to competent people that's the way that succeeds - people need to feel the pressure that they could be let go if they or their division doesn't deliver the goods.

As an off topic reply: FYI most of the things that private companies thrive on(RocketLab, SpaceX, ..) i.e propulsive landings, guidance systems, rocket/engine plumbing and performance etc., have come directly/indirectly from the funds spent by NASA on research. There are a lot of cases where these companies(for example: SpaceX for Starship or Crew Dragon or Falcon 9) consult NASA directly, or are even involved intimately for the project to get a knowledge transfer/follow best practices.

An apple will always look bad if you keep comparing it to an orange.