Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

[shade2]

When we bought INS jalashwa, daddy America told their conditions. Then Navy folks stopped second procurement and even replaced components which Americans told they will check.

IAF never trusted US fighters fearing the same conditions. If we bought and then we can say we are compromised and I will move to North Korea.

There are even worse conditions than Jalashwa, there is this article

https://warontherocks.com/2020/08/h...e-with-pakistan-can-help-it-deal-with-turkey/

about conditions that PAF was subjected to for F16 operation

Keep in mind these weren't the fanciest Block 70/72 version with AESA radar and all, but older versions

In a paki plebbit thread about the sanctions on their Nooklear Mijjile program, one paki was commenting that as per US conditions, they can only use F16 for "defense" ofc "defense" is defined by the US as they please.

And this is for older F16 models, you can imagine F-35 ke liye kaise (((conditions))) honge...

Jalashwa was atleast an old ass ship so the Navy could toss away the top-secret high-tech US systems and keep the ship, there is no way meanwhile they will let us change out the radar, electronics and missiles/bombs of even an F16 with Deshi analogues, the Russians allow this after grumbling, the French allow this after asking us obscene sums of money.

 

[shade2]

If this doesn't set the collective pants of IAF, HAL, DRDO and MoD on fire, I don't know what will. The Chinese will have this thing enter service before AMCA even starts serial production.
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You assume the IAF and MoD are concerned about national defense from adversaries, they are not.
If future planning was a thing we wouldn't be suffering the Tejas boondoggle

Chings since the 90s atleast have been planning and implementing for this decade and the next in terms of military design and production.

Every choot here only plans about how to extract the max bribes and favors before his term in the plum positions ends

 

[narasimh]

If this doesn't set the collective pants of IAF, HAL, DRDO and MoD on fire, I don't know what will. The Chinese will have this thing enter service before AMCA even starts serial production.
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What is this? The single pilot bomber they showcased?

 

[Ayan Barat]

Just to get a rough idea of how easy* it's to make an AWACS out of C-295.
Took me hardly 15min to doodle this.

*if you have the thing called ingenuity

Nothing cutting edge, almost all of the equipments (except radar) are COTS and can be added with minimal airframe modification. The only serious airframe modification that would be needed would be a new strengthened vertical stabilizer to support the additional weight of the radar...not a big deal. In case there's doubt about the feasibility of mounting radome on top of the vertical stabilizer then An-71s have already proven this concept.

 

[Ayan Barat]

Just gonna leave this here
A reminder of the price that one must pay for decades of institutional incompetency

 

[narasimh]

I think it's time to build asymmetric options.. this race cannot be won. IAF should heavily focus on anti air systems and drones than on fighters. We don't have the money nor the capacity to build at this rate. Also we must get rid of no first use policy on nukes as our conventional deterrence is depleting

 

[shade2]

This will set Pentagon's ears straight up too.. let's see if they have a problem with s400 for the sale of F-35 now

They will still
At the end of the day the Americans can and will fuck right off from East Asia, meanwhile China can't move away from our eastern border and after Taiwan is hammered in place, we are the next nail sticking up.

Your assumption would work if they were building us up as a counter to China but they are not.

 

[jaijaganath]

F-35 is the iron brand that all US slaves carry
Even the Gulfies haven't been sold F35s, and no before anyone says it's not (((qualitative advantage for Israel)))

If we buy F-35 it will be that we are their slaves and you can expect us to be China's Ukraine in the future

It's better to be slaves rather die in war
Being slaves will ensure our survival atleast
I will not mince my words it's not bcoz Chinese 6th gen aircraft flying
I wanted to say this long ago but I was too busy for any counter
Situation is so grim I just don't understand how come pmo def ministry and iaf are sleeping peacefully at night
Next year we will be down to 29 sq,
GE engines uncertainty still remains, we wont be inducting any new type of aircraft till 2030s, ge 414 local production still not signed, existing aircrafts are getting outdated
So much of problems
We neither have quantity nor quality
At this point we need aircrafts no matter the cost
Until now f-35 isn't on table but if it comes we should grab it
In next 2-3 years we will be facing 5th gen aircrafts on 2 fronts and that too in huge quantity
F-35 is in production and can be produced in huge nos and its 5th gen too

And coming to slaves we are slaves in every other thing out there, entire IT industry stands on their mercy, we are net importer of most of the things, it's our bad luck that we are enemy with a country without whom our industries and market can't survive i.e china, we are dependent on every major foreign country for our defence and sadly we are interested to increase dependency

This is battle of survival

 

[jaijaganath]

I think it's time to build asymmetric options.. this race cannot be won. IAF should heavily focus on anti air systems and drones than on fighters. We don't have the money nor the capacity to build at this rate. Also we must get rid of no first use policy on nukes as our conventional deterrence is depleting

U are right but no asymmetric options can save you from huge nos of fighter aircrafts and that too from a nation that has capability to produce them in mass

Forget 6th gen we currently need mk2 in huge nos and amca flying
But that's not possible we can't complete testing of mk2 in few years heck we can't even fly it before 2026
Situation is more pathetic wrt amca

We need fighters that too 5th gen

 

[shiphone]

Just to get a rough idea of how easy* it's to make an AWACS out of C-295.
Took me hardly 15min to doodle this.
View attachment 19601
*if you have the thing called ingenuity

Nothing cutting edge, almost all of the equipments (except radar) are COTS and can be added with minimal airframe modification. The only serious airframe modification that would be needed would be a new strengthened vertical stabilizer to support the additional weight of the radar...not a big deal. In case there's doubt about the feasibility of mounting radome on top of the vertical stabilizer then An-71s have already proven this concept.

???

C295 AEW

The C295’s airborne early warning version features IAI/ELTA’s fourth-gen AESA radar and integrated IFF as its primary sensor.

www.airbus.com

and

 

[705-Lira]

Just to get a rough idea of how easy* it's to make an AWACS out of C-295.
Took me hardly 15min to doodle this.
View attachment 19601
*if you have the thing called ingenuity

Nothing cutting edge, almost all of the equipments (except radar) are COTS and can be added with minimal airframe modification. The only serious airframe modification that would be needed would be a new strengthened vertical stabilizer to support the additional weight of the radar...not a big deal. In case there's doubt about the feasibility of mounting radome on top of the vertical stabilizer then An-71s have already proven this concept.

Airbus already flew a C-295 AWACS prototype more than a decade ago, there were no takers for it.
It's flies far too low and is slow to become an effective AEW/AWACS platform.

 

[GodEmperorDoom]

Did everyone notice how few days back Gormint formed a Committee into looking IAF Capability. I can't help but believe they already knew and now the knee jerk reaction was that committee.

 

[narasimh]

Just to get a rough idea of how easy* it's to make an AWACS out of C-295.
Took me hardly 15min to doodle this.
View attachment 19601
*if you have the thing called ingenuity

Nothing cutting edge, almost all of the equipments (except radar) are COTS and can be added with minimal airframe modification. The only serious airframe modification that would be needed would be a new strengthened vertical stabilizer to support the additional weight of the radar...not a big deal. In case there's doubt about the feasibility of mounting radome on top of the vertical stabilizer then An-71s have already proven this concept.

Why mount on the vert. stab? Why not go with the normal strut mount on mid fuselage? Would it not cause a tail strike while takeoff?

 

[high_IQ_bharatiya_sainik]

Guys are we fucked? Looking at even the most optimistic timelines, we are so behind. To maintain a defensive stance over our skies, we need an interceptor to act as deterrence. GCAP doesn't sounds bad because slowl I am losing my faith on domestic MIC. Even non-tech aspects like general attitude of out PSUs, alleged corruptions, work culture, lack of domestic competition, poor marketing from the PSUs themselves with cyan colored powerpoint slides ( LoL ).

 

[high_IQ_bharatiya_sainik]

Assuming we detach ourselves from Russia and strengthen ties with Japan / UK

 

[Ayan Barat]

???

Make, make is the keyword here me Guy.
How long are we gonna keep buying.
Especially when you guys are flying 5.5-6th gen planes back there

Airbus already flew a C-295 AWACS prototype more than a decade ago, there were no takers for it.

Interestingly it was developed especially for us with Phalcon radar

But with technologies that have matured during the past decade, we can definitely bring down the weight. Especially more energy efficient AESA technologies.

Why mount on the vert. stab?

Why add the drag of additional struts when you can use the existing airframe more efficiently.

Why not go with the normal strut mount on mid fuselage?

Because you'd get slightly better coverage as there won't be a vertical stabilizer in the LoS

Would it not cause a tail strike while takeoff?

Nope, it's not very far out from the horizontal stabilizers which are further lower.

 

[GodEmperorDoom]

Guys are we fucked? Looking at even the most optimistic timelines, we are so behind. To maintain a defensive stance over our skies, we need an interceptor to act as deterrence. GCAP doesn't sounds bad because slowl I am losing my faith on domestic MIC. Even non-tech aspects like general attitude of out PSUs, alleged corruptions, work culture, lack of domestic competition, poor marketing from the PSUs themselves with cyan colored powerpoint slides ( LoL ).

Keeping aside the "winning" part, what we can actually focus on is "not losing." The PLAAF’s tankers and forward airfields are what enable them to extend the combat ranges of their fighters. These should be our primary targets. It's high time we cancel the NGMBT and FRCV circus. Without maintaining air deterrence, these platforms are just sitting ducks and would end up being nothing more than target practice. Forget the Pinaka obsession and start mass-producing Shaurya missiles at a rate of 1,000 per month. With serialized automated production, we could potentially bring the cost down to around $0.5 million each, totaling $500 million or $6 billion per year. Similarly, accelerate the production of Nirbhay missiles in similar numbers. With Shaurya covering up to 1,500 km and Nirbhay up to 1,000 km, we would establish credible deterrence.

In addition, we need to build and deploy TEL trucks, distributing them across the northern regions in a way that mimics a distributed arsenal in rural or suburban areas. This would ensure survivability and readiness in case of conflict.

As for those who advocate using Su-30s as bomb trucks, let me remind them that the PLAAF’s J-20 count has already surpassed our entire Su-30 fleet, not to mention their numerous 4.5th generation flankers. If anyone still clings to the delusion that Su-30s can effectively play the air-to-ground role in this scenario, it’s just that—a delusion.

 

[Ayan Barat]

But if China use nuke against us then it will be MAD

Paraspar Nishchit Vinash is applicable when two countries have similar number of nuclear warheads, similar delivery systems and equally effective interception capabilities.
Like USA and Russia

Compare our and Chinese warheads, the pace at which they're increasing it, the available systems that can intercept adversary's ballistic missile

The MAD would start to look more like a Massacre.

 

[narasimh]

Nope, it's not very far out from the horizontal stabilizers which are further lower.

But don't you think increasing the weight in the empennage moves the CG behind. How will you balance it? Also is there a precedent for this kind of a design?

 

[Ayan Barat]

But don't you think increasing the weight in the empennage moves the CG behind. How will you balance it?

1.6t worth of console would be just behind the cockpit compared to 0.8t of radar on the tail. Furthermore 2t worth of fuel which would be placed near the CG can be manipulated to counter imbalance if it's still there

Also is there a precedent for this kind of a design?

An-71

Had cleared all the technical feasibility requirements. Got cancelled only because Russians were having issues with radar tech and then Soviet Union broke.