Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

RDXChauhan said:
:mad2::mad2:
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The latest Kaveri iteration or KDE will be flight tested on an IAF test bed . It's a matter of time . Have no doubts on that front except the version to be tested will have an output of ~ 50 KN / 72 KN as opposed to what was previously thought to be ~ 55 KN / 85 KN version.

If this version is successfully certified as flight worthy , you can expect to see a full fledged program launched to equal GE F-404 TF specifications viz ~ 55 KN / 90 KN which should deliver a fully certified TF in around a decade after it's launched.

The analogue for the GE F-414 will come through a down rated TF from the proposed JV we're scheduled to have for the AMCA Mk-2 where previously it was speculated that the analogue to the F-414 would come from another program for a KED.
 
Azaad said:
The latest Kaveri iteration or KDE will be flight tested on an IAF test bed . It's a matter of time . Have no doubts on that front except the version to be tested will have an output of ~ 50 KN / 72 KN as opposed to what was previously thought to be ~ 55 KN / 85 KN version.

If this version is successfully certified as flight worthy , you can expect to see a full fledged program launched to equal GE F-404 TF specifications viz ~ 55 KN / 90 KN which should deliver a fully certified TF in around a decade after it's launched.

The analogue for the GE F-414 will come through a down rated TF from the proposed JV we're scheduled to have for the AMCA Mk-2 where previously it was speculated that the analogue to the F-414 would come from another program for a KED.
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Testing is a step in the right direction.

Unfortunately from what you say it sounds tome like production TF's for use in Mk1A will only become available after Mk1A has finished production.
 
Spitfire IX said:
Testing is a step in the right direction.

Unfortunately from what you say it sounds tome like production TF's for use in Mk1A will only become available after Mk1A has finished production.
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In any case these KEDs aren't going to power those MK-1a's today. The plan always was to certify these KEDs to power the MK-1a's during their MLU which is at least 10-12 years away as of now.

Ditto for the TF analogous to the F-414 we plan to develop which'd power the Mk-2 during their MLU.
 
Azaad said:
In any case these KEDs aren't going to power those MK-1a's today. The plan always was to certify these KEDs to power the MK-1a's during their MLU which is at least 10-12 years away as of now.

Ditto for the TF analogous to the F-414 we plan to develop which'd power the Mk-2 during their MLU.
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Sorry, don't know what KED is.
 
@Azaad
Thanks.

I come from a world in which you identify a need then find a way or ways of satisfying that need.

IAF needs a 5G fighter. The probability of AMCA being able to satisfy that need before around 2040 is low. Sukhoi,, according to reports, is close to completing an Su-75 prototype. The probability of Su-75 going into production is extremely low without a foreign order.

Su-75 is touted as a low cost 5G aircraft that will cost <40 million USD .per unit. Why doesn't India negotiate a deal with Sukhoi to buy some? Not co-develop - that would delay things for years and render the whole exercise pointless.
 
londonparistokyo said:
India should build as many missiles as possible as a deterrent while developing the engine. Any incursion by an enemy aircraft leads to aerial bombardment from missiles, no?
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Yes, this is a better approach instead of splurging on imported fighter jets.

The day we have our own Jet engine is when we should start planning on becoming a Air Power.
 
Spitfire IX said:
@Azaad
Thanks.

I come from a world in which you identify a need then find a way or ways of satisfying that need.

IAF needs a 5G fighter. The probability of AMCA being able to satisfy that need before around 2040 is low. Sukhoi,, according to reports, is close to completing an Su-75 prototype. The probability of Su-75 going into production is extremely low without a foreign order.

Su-75 is touted as a low cost 5G aircraft that will cost <40 million USD .per unit. Why doesn't India negotiate a deal with Sukhoi to buy some? Not co-develop - that would delay things for years and render the whole exercise pointless.
Click to expand...

This entire deal rests on the premise of the Su-75 being combat worthy(which is dubious at best given that the VVS itself has no interest in it), even if we choose to ignore the recent trend of reducing reliance on Russia
 
londonparistokyo said:
India should build as many missiles as possible as a deterrent while developing the engine. Any incursion by an enemy aircraft leads to aerial bombardment from missiles, no?
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that is what they are doing right now, project kusha aims to make up for a weak air force by increasing Air defense and once missiles like pralay, land LR-LACM go into mass production we will have good way to flatten their installations.
 
DumbPilot said:
This entire deal rests on the premise of the Su-75 being combat worthy(which is dubious at best given that the VVS itself has no interest in it), even if we choose to ignore the recent trend of reducing reliance on Russia
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Fair enough - no 5G fighter for IAF until AMCA rolls off the production line. I doubt that the people in a position to speed that up will do anything to speed it up, so the question now is whether Tejas Mk2 willn be speeded up. I imagine it can but I also imagine it won't be.

PS Instead of talking about the need to order more Rafale, how about actually doing something about it and ordering some?
 
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Spitfire IX said:
PS Instead of talking about the need to order more Rafale, how about actually doing something about it and ordering some?
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well the answer is pretty simply: they don't want to buy it quickly.

on an off topic note:
I think this is one of the things wrong with this defense forum. We're more focused on equipment and whether chandigarh lobby will do shit or not so all interactions basically devolve down to:

"hey when will we buy X"
"hey why doesn't the army do Y"
"hey I think the Z is involved behind this thing"

which ends up making this site a place of disappointment. I think it would be better if we started to dissect tactics of various other countries and seeing how our military does it time to time, instead of just focusing on military purchases
 
I see in idrw today talk of India joining GCAP.

India Eyes Role in GCAP 6th Fighter Jet Program Amid Japan’s Caution – Indian Defence Research Wing

idrw.org idrw.org

Japan, in particular, wants this project to deliver on time. Of all the countries that might want to join the project, which would be the one most likely to slow the project down?

The projected development cost, I guess, will be 20-30 times greater than ACMA. Where honouring financial obligations is concerned, GOI is not known for paying on time. A few years back HAL had to go to the commercial banking sector to pay its employees because GOI was so many months late in settling its bills. GCAP could be seriously compromised by involving GOI.

I think India joining GCAP would not work for the GCAP partners. IMO any new partner would have to bring a lot of funds or a lot of orders or a lot of technology, be able to make decisions in a reasonable amount of time and be able to action those decisions taken as planned.

Better for India to stick to AMCA, I think.
 
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Spitfire IX said:
The projected development cost, I guess, will be 20-30 times greater than ACMA
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That's wrong, the cost is about twice as expensive.
The "total" estimated cost of gcap is about 40 billion over it's development period of a decade or more, but gcap project is more than Just future 6th gen fighter, it also includes loyal wingmans, weapons(next gen missiles etc).
For example in cca sanctioned funds of aproxx 2 billion dollars for amca, cost of engines is not included, the jv 110kn engines for amca are further estimated to cost 5-6 billion dollars to develop with a foreign partner, plus lots of avionics going in amca have "separate funds" not included in sanctioned money of 2 billion dollars.
Plus loyal wingmans, HAPS, integrated network etc are separate projects in India, there equivalent UK-japan projects come under gcap program.
But there's a twist there, it seems italy has not joined other projects under gcap except 6th gen fighter one, as they recently made deal with Turkey for future loyal wingman.



So If we put amca(including engines and avionics), loyal wingmans, next gen weapons etc all those projects under a "next gen warfighting aircraft program(NGWAP)" umbrella project, then the combined cost will come close to or can surpass $20billion, plus "budget overruns" are expected.
 
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