Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

About 15 no went into production.. one thing we have to admit that with a rabid terrorist state paxtan on one side nd huge belligerent China on other side we can't continue to have laggards DPSUs babudom culture..

Forces fight with what they hv in hand and the results are skewed wrt to their capabilities not like continuously chanting atmanirbhar jargon years after years with nothing to show off when contingency arrives.
Astra Mk2 completed user trials years ago and Limited Series Production for Astra Mk2 was kicked-off 2 years ago.
The procurement process of Astra Mk2 was being processed as per a report given to the Standing Committee on Defence earlier this year.
Not everything is public info.
 
Listen man, if republicans loose the next elections, the democrats will love to blackmail us using f35 if we bought them.
Democrats or Republicans with rising numbers of indian expats climbing the American top echolens it won't be that much of an issue.. remember when we got CAATSA waiver while being a non nato ally while turkey being a nato ally got the same CAATSA sanctions.

Turkey was kicked out of F 35 program while it purchased S400 nd now we are being offered the same F35 from POTUS trump nd VP vance.. while we operate S400.. lol go figure why such strategic difference.

Nd rest assured we aren't getting any nato standard F35.. instead we will be getting non nato standard F35 ADIR with Israeli Bnet AR SDR datalinks for interoperability nd sufficient room for us to employ as like we want. The same framework which we used in our p8i which is operating with our indian subsystem like indigneous IFF nd comma .. isreal employed the F35 on its own terms while it also had differences with democrats where various senators were going gung ho to stop weapon sales.

Anyways F35 is currently tied to geopolitics where indian nd us near, medium nd long term interest are also tied.. why?? Because we both hv big elephant (dragon) in the room in the form of CHINA..

Nd we will be purchasing just 2-3 squadrons of F35 for stopgap nd capabilities retention vis a vis PAF purchase of fight gen vectors.

Trumps recent tariffs are all aimed at China coz it knows chinese economy depends on exports surplus which it enjoys while dumping it all in USA due to its large consumer market.. india aims to benefit more from the trumps tariff a la apple shifting it's iphone manufacturing to india.

Both side are running around the clock to complete the strategic bilateral trade deal before the end of this year as both countries aims to increase bilateral trade to 500 billions dollars by 2030.


We are also aiming to increase our defence partnership with USA with indo US compact initiative for next 10 years with multiple joint partnership nd co production like currently mahindra aerospace tied with Andruil to co produce defence systems

 
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The real strength of the rafale in that case isn't there.
Using passive sensors, rafale pilots will be able to see the F16 using their Rafale from a great distance, with very high precision... As far as I know, enough to get a firing solution even with an em missile without turning on the radar.
No.
You ain't getting a firing solution using EO/IR at more than 50-60 km if sun Is behind your jet and flying in a clean cool air.
Plus depends lot on environment factor.
High temperature of air, direction of sun,clouds, humidity etc, and these factors have very big impact on ability of IRST and other IR sensors.
 
Astra Mk2 completed user trials years ago and Limited Series Production for Astra Mk2 was kicked-off 2 years ago.
The procurement process of Astra Mk2 was being processed as per a report given to the Standing Committee on Defence earlier this year.
Not everything is public info.
Exactly.
I beleive it's in production already.
Seeing we saw astra mk2 with navy's mig29.
 
Exactly.
I beleive it's in production already.
Seeing we saw astra mk2 with navy's mig29.
In this year's enough astra mk2s would be have procured to equip all front line fighters incase of any skirmish astra mk3 will be the first responder.
I think even astra mk3 would have been inducted in limited numbers. Just like how they Equipped astra mk1 back in 2020
 
Exactly.
I beleive it's in production already.
Seeing we saw astra mk2 with navy's mig29.
Was that Astra mk2 seen with mig 29 actual one or dummy...

IMG_20250427_150251.webp

..
2024 report says Astra mk2 will be ready for induction in 2 years ,
There are some tenders regarding astra mk2 in 2024 ...
If mig 29 is integrated with Astra mk2, then it's a night mare for pakistan...
 
Was that Astra mk2 seen with mig 29 actual one or dummy...

View attachment 32092

..
2024 report says Astra mk2 will be ready for induction in 2 years ,
There are some tenders regarding astra mk2 in 2024 ...
If mig 29 is integrated with Astra mk2, then it's a night mare for pakistan...
It was dummy
And moreover mk2 has completed all the testing but afaik lsp missiles haven't been delivered yet

If we really go into war it would be interesting whether we can produce mk1 and mk2 in numbers and replenish the stock
 
It was dummy
And moreover mk2 has completed all the testing but afaik lsp missiles haven't been delivered yet

If we really go into war it would be interesting whether we can produce mk1 and mk2 in numbers and replenish the stock

wasnt there rumours of MK-2 going back to drawing board for redesign/enhancements, which is why it is delayed? Actual induction might happen around 2026/27 according to them
 
wasnt there rumours of MK-2 going back to drawing board for redesign/enhancements, which is why it is delayed? Actual induction might happen around 2026/27 according to them
I am not aware of any such rumours
I got to speak with few guys who were in aero india and they said testing is completed and at that time they were waiting for lsp orders which was given later
 
wasnt there rumours of MK-2 going back to drawing board for redesign/enhancements, which is why it is delayed? Actual induction might happen around 2026/27 according to them
Nope, not aware of such rumours.
The Astra Mk2 as it stands is a chonkier Astra Mk1 with a dual pulse rocket motor.
It entered LRIP 2 years ago so definitely a few units would have been delivered to the IAF.
 
Numbers of mig29/29k,mirages in service

70 Single seaters 10 trainer mig 29s were procured
21 have crashed. IAF has total of 59 mig29s left.
IAF has 52 single seaters migs 29s & 7 trainers not much of use in combat. Especially in a2a domain.

Navy procured 45 mig29k 5 trainers and 40 single seaters. 2 trainer have crashed and 3 single seaters have crashed. IN has total of 40 mig29k in service. However the mig29k trainers are as capable as single seaters ones unlike IAFs mig29s. trainer are upgradable.
Total of 92 combat capable mig29s in service not counting IAF trainers.


There were total of 59 Mirage 2000s procured (40+9+10) so far 15 have crashed.
However we had procured 24 retired Mirage 2000s from France in 2021 for 27 millions, Out of the 24 Mirage fighters, 13 are in complete condition with engine and airframe intact with 8 of them ready to fly after servicing, not just for canabalism to sustain existing fleet rather 8 of them are in fly away conditions while another 5 are complete airframes with engines on. Total of 13 can be made flight worthy operation ready given the state of our sq they would have done it. While rest of 11 would be used for canabalism.
Coming back to the total numbers of mirage 2000s in-service, Till 2011 when upgradation began 9 were crashed and 1 was repaired, and so 51 left were decided to be upgraded to the T standards.

Ideally they should have replaced 8 of them but who knows there were reports of aircraft getting replaced prior to 2007(production end) but have not found anything significant also the upgradation numbers media used to quote was 51 back then,meaning 8 written of crashed airframes weren't replaced. If they did so could have been classified. However since then 6 aircrafts crashed till today apr-2025 15 have crashed bringing the total airframe number of mirage 2000s down to 44 Add to that the retired airframes we brought from french out of which 13 were flight worthy. Ideally we should be having 57 mirage 2000s.
Must commend IAF for there efforts to sustain Mirage fleet.
IAF never going to buy an 5th Gen fighter from US, GOI will simply going to shut it off due to higher cost and corresponding Terms and conditions which the US may levy on IAF.

IAF at present is not in great shape and we should acknowledge it. It needs an long term support with 5 year review. For the first 5 years it can plan only few things.

1. Ensure it receives the Tejas MK1A as GE started to deliver albeit in a delayed fashion. Ensure it orders the second batch of 97 Jets. Based on that HAL can deliver an 16 Jets per year we end up 80 Jets in 5 years. (Min Production rate).

2. Try to lobby for second tranche of Rafale. Another G2G deal of 36 or whatever. By this we can increase the Rafale strength to 72.

3. Ensure the speedy process of SU-30 MKI upgrades. AESA, MAWS, RWR and integration. By 5 Years try to upgrade Half the fleet/Entire fleet.

4. Maintain the Mirage 2000 Fleet by replacing lost aircraft and purchase decommissioned ones for spares. We tried and due to high acquisition cost we chickened out. Also if possible replace the RDY Radar with Uttam Derivative.

5. Another Plane which can be useful if we tinkered around in Mig 29. The current Mig 29 is UPG variant with ZHUK M PESA Radar. Replace the ZHUK with Uttam AESA derivative.

6. Upgrade common encrypted communication between Rafale, SU-30, Tejas MK1A, Mig29, M2000.

At the end of 5 years we will have an small, but quality Frontline fighters. The above part is more about upgrading with less capital purchase (Extra Tejas, M2000 airframes).

Coming to Heli, Transport here some capital purchase needs to be done.

7. Replace all aging Chetaks with LUH.
8. Order additional Chinooks.
9. Increase the order of C-295 to replace the AN32E (Ukraine is screwed stop expecting spares).
10. Order extra C-130
12. Purchase Embraer EJ145 for Netra MK1 in commercial market.


From 7-12 GOI can do point 12, 7, 9 which gives some Transport and AWACS capability.

Also increase the armament base from India. Integrate Astra, Gaurav, SAAW, Low cost cruise missile into all front line aircrafts.

This can be done in next 5 years. But all of them were armchair expert dream. Take it with salt.
Agreed, Equipping those total of 149 mig29/29ks, mirage 2000s with 912trm uttam aesa radar paired with astra mk1/2 is a low hanging fruit.
We have indigeneous mission computer on both mig29s & Mirage 2000s. There were some reports navy is seeking to upgrade it's mig29k with indigeneous mission computer along with Uttam AESA Radar.
1000031560.webp
Imagine this 149 fighter aircraft equipped with much needed powerfull AESA paired with astra mk2/3. Unbelievable capability addition.

As per astra microwave pvt Ltd there production line could roll out 36 radars per annum, it is the only certified airborne fire control radar in india which has completed flight trials, they should be able to increase production if needed
We should have had initiated this upgradation atleast 1-2 years prior. The same Uttam can churn out better performance with increased power in mig29s and maybe in mirages 2000s as well.
It will increase there electronic counter measure resistance as well as range significantly.

If we upgrade total of 149 (92 Mig29s + 57 Mirage 2000s) with existing 912trm Uttam AESA Radar. This would add up to our strength significantly without costing an arm and leg like whenever we upgrade from foreign OEMs. This is not just a very capable option but also a affordable one as we would be achieving economies of scale also this doesn't come with fancy GaN which increases the cost alot.

With 180 for Tejas mk1A and 149 for this above-mentioned aircrafts we would be achieving a huge scale of economies total of 329 radars this will bring down the cost exponentially. Infact there are many airforces out there who are seeking upgrades for there mig29s I think egyptian airforce is also seeking upgrades. If we have equipped our 330 aircrafts with this uttam aesa there will be prospects of foreign orders for upgrades along with it we can offer our missiles,various a2g weapons if they agree on mission computer upgrade. Anyways

Even pakistan has (much boasted number 40-50 jf17 b3, some say 23bl3, 20-25 j10CE which will reach 36 once all delivered) total of ~50-70 AESA Radar equipped aircrafts in service right now.

While we have mere 36 rafales & 60 darin III upgraded jaguars with AESA.
If there is no major induction and just another piece mall 40 rafales then we should upgrade our fleet with AESA Radars.

You have good production rate, not so expensive either anybody should have done a natural progression in this direction. Shouldn't we call this lack of vision in the higher ups.

Or could they be waiting for the newer Tejas mk2s radar it would be costly also the service life we expect from this platform isnt that much either. As per astra microwave representative at ai2025 the design & configuration it has long time to go.
 
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No.
You ain't getting a firing solution using EO/IR at more than 50-60 km if sun Is behind your jet and flying in a clean cool air.
Plus depends lot on environment factor.
High temperature of air, direction of sun,clouds, humidity etc, and these factors have very big impact on ability of IRST and other IR sensors.
I'm not talking about infrared sensors
 
Numbers of mig29/29k,mirages in service

70 Single seaters 10 trainer mig 29s were procured
21 have crashed. IAF has total of 59 mig29s left.
IAF has 52 single seaters migs 29s & 7 trainers not much of use in combat. Especially in a2a domain.

Navy procured 45 mig29k 5 trainers and 40 single seaters. 2 trainer have crashed and 3 single seaters have crashed. IN has total of 40 mig29k in service. However the mig29k trainers are as capable as single seaters ones unlike IAFs mig29s. trainer are upgradable.
Total of 92 combat capable mig29s in service not counting IAF trainers.


There were total of 59 Mirage 2000s procured (40+9+10) so far 15 have crashed.
However we had procured 24 retired Mirage 2000s from France in 2021 for 27 millions, Out of the 24 Mirage fighters, 13 are in complete condition with engine and airframe intact with 8 of them ready to fly after servicing, not just for canabalism to sustain existing fleet rather 8 of them are in fly away conditions while another 5 are complete airframes with engines on. Total of 13 can be made flight worthy operation ready given the state of our sq they would have done it. While rest of 11 would be used for canabalism.

Coming back to the total numbers of mirage 2000s in-service, Till 2011 when upgradation began 9 were crashed and 1 was repaired, and so 51 left were decided to be upgraded to the T standards.

Ideally they should have replaced 8 of them but who knows there were reports of aircraft getting replaced prior to 2007(production end) but have not found anything significant also the upgradation numbers media used to quote was 51 back then,meaning 8 written of crashed airframes weren't replaced. If they did so could have been classified. However since then 6 aircrafts crashed till today apr-2025 15 have crashed bringing the total airframe number of mirage 2000s down to 44 Add to that the retired airframes we brought from french out of which 13 were flight worthy. Ideally we should be having 57 mirage 2000s.
Must commend IAF for there efforts to sustain Mirage fleet.

Agreed, Equipping those total of 149 mig29/29ks, mirage 2000s with 912trm uttam aesa radar paired with astra mk1/2 is a low hanging fruit.
We have indigeneous mission computer on both mig29s & Mirage 2000s. There were some reports navy is seeking to upgrade it's mig29k with indigeneous mission computer along with Uttam AESA Radar.
View attachment 32136
Imagine this 149 fighter aircraft equipped with much needed powerfull AESA paired with astra mk2/3. Unbelievable capability addition.

As per astra microwave pvt Ltd there production line could roll out 36 radars per annum, it is the only certified airborne fire control radar in india which has completed flight trials, they should be able to increase production if needed
We should have had initiated this upgradation atleast 1-2 years prior. The same Uttam can churn out better performance with increased power in mig29s and maybe in mirages 2000s as well.
It will increase there electronic counter measure resistance as well as range significantly.

If we upgrade total of 149 (92 Mig29s + 57 Mirage 2000s) with existing 912trm Uttam AESA Radar. This would add up to our strength significantly without costing an arm and leg like whenever we upgrade from foreign OEMs. This is not just a very capable option but also a affordable one as we would be achieving economies of scale also this doesn't come with fancy GaN which increases the cost alot.

With 180 for Tejas mk1A and 149 for this above-mentioned aircrafts we would be achieving a huge scale of economies total of 329 radars this will bring down the cost exponentially. Infact there are many airforces out there who are seeking upgrades for there mig29s I think egyptian airforce is also seeking upgrades. If we have equipped our 330 aircrafts with this uttam aesa there will be prospects of foreign orders for upgrades along with it we can offer our missiles,various a2g weapons if they agree on mission computer upgrade. Anyways

Even pakistan has (much boasted number 40-50 jf17 b3, some say 23bl3, 20-25 j10CE which will reach 36 once all delivered) total of ~50-70 AESA Radar equipped aircrafts in service right now.

While we have mere 36 rafales & 60 darin III upgraded jaguars with AESA.
If there is no major induction and just another piece mall 40 rafales then we should upgrade our fleet with AESA Radars.

You have good production rate, not so expensive either anybody should have done a natural progression in this direction. Shouldn't we call this lack of vision in the higher ups.

Or could they be waiting for the newer Tejas mk2s radar it would be costly also the service life we expect from this platform isnt that much either. As per astra microwave representative at ai2025 the design & configuration it has long time to go.


I should IAF upgradation committee.
 

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