Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

[Pundit Pikachu]

and thanks to hal babus, we havent even got the basic trainers, leave aside the ultra hyped hlft 42

why the fkcu you need 20 hardpoints on a trainer??? aesa radar and what not, just keep it like a trainer, na ghar ka na ghaat ka ho jayega
na fighter ban paya dhang se na trainer ban paya

just give basic uttam GaAs with 7-8 hardpoints with kaveri and just roll it out man

HLFT 42 is a shit plane no matter how you look at it.

It's a pricier Tejas with none of the goodies.

You want a next gen trainer Just Slap two HTFE 40 and be done with it, just like that you have more redundant and more indigenous Trainer who's main purpose is to actually act like a trainer and not a knockoff Tejas

 

[silentassassin265]

HLFT 42 is a shit plane no matter how you look at it.

It's a pricier Tejas with none of the goodies.

You want a next gen trainer Just Slap two HTFE 40 and be done with it, just like that you have more redundant and more indigenous Trainer who's main purpose is to actually act like a trainer and not a knockoff Tejas

It is supposed to replace bae hawk.
It might be costlier due to low production but if we bring price down it could be an excellent jet for export to smaller countries.

 

[jaijaganath]

View: https://x.com/officialTatya_1/status/1923620339440869749

Wow super sukhoi is 5-6 years away

 

[Pundit Pikachu]

It is supposed to replace bae hawk.

No it's not, both aircrafts are of two different categories.
HLFT 42 has literally more than double the thrust than Hawk.
HLFT 42 is more closer to T7 and T50 than Hawk.

HLFT 42 or whatever LiFT we acquire will take over the Advanced Jet Training Role and merge it with Lead in Fighter Training Role.

It might be costlier due to low production but if we bring price down it could be an excellent jet for export to smaller countries.

It will never be cheaper than Tejas Mk1A or any other LiFT aircraft for that matter with a F414 engine and Uttam Radar and a MTOW similar to Tejas Mk 2.
Why would any country prefer it over cheaper and lighter T7 or T-50 or Hurjet.

Where as a 2×HTFE 40 powered semi stealth aircraft would be price competitive and more redundant than any other supersonic LiFT out there.
Not only that this semi stealth aircraft can be converted into a high end fully stealthy Loyal Wingman UCAV for our 5.5-6th gen fighters

• My point being there is no current market for HLFT 42,
• it is not future proof (none of the LiFT are but that's exactly the point, why make a new platform similar to what everyone else is already making and doing a far better job than you at it)
• all of its potential competitors outgun in nearly every way possible (except combat duties) from purchasing cost to operating cost to training role etc
• It serves no purpose in combat fighter duties for us either because by the point HLFT 42 comes online we will already have a shit ton of Tejas Mk1A and Mk2 for that role

 

[silentassassin265]

No it's not, both aircrafts are of two different categories.
HLFT 42 has literally more than double the thrust than Hawk.
HLFT 42 is more closer to T7 and T50 than Hawk.

HLFT 42 or whatever LiFT we acquire will take over the Advanced Jet Training Role and merge it with Lead in Fighter Training Role.



It will never be cheaper than Tejas Mk1A or any other LiFT aircraft for that matter with a F414 engine and Uttam Radar and a MTOW similar to Tejas Mk 2.
Why would any country prefer it over cheaper and lighter T7 or T-50 or Hurjet.

Where as a 2×HTFE 40 powered semi stealth aircraft would be price competitive and more redundant than any other supersonic LiFT out there.
Not only that this semi stealth aircraft can be converted into a high end fully stealthy Loyal Wingman UCAV for our 5.5-6th gen fighters

• My point being there is no current market for HLFT 42,
• it is not future proof (none of the LiFT are but that's exactly the point, why make a new platform similar to what everyone else is already making and doing a far better job than you at it)
• all of its potential competitors outgun in nearly every way possible (except combat duties) from purchasing cost to operating cost to training role etc
• It serves no purpose in combat fighter duties for us either because by the point HLFT 42 comes online we will already have a shit ton of Tejas Mk1A and Mk2 for that role

Porkies will surely have upper hand if they get 5th gen jet.
But will the HTEF even be enough to power a stealth jet?
5th gen jets require stealth coatings, engine needs to be properly placed in airframe to reduce heat signature, it also required on board climate control system so that engine and other components don't overheat leaving vulnerable to detection by irst.

Not to forget internal weapons bay and massively powerful ew suit to jam incoming missiles and spoofing enemy radars.

Another thing it needs is supercuise ability to fly at supersonic speed without afterburner.

This is how they make a stealth jet which will not be detected by radars and irst .

Semi stealth jets dont exist it will just be another 4th gen jet. Awecs can detect any jet even with 0.5 RCS from 300-400km.

 

[Drwho]

Porkies will surely have upper hand if they get 5th gen jet.
But will the HTEF even be enough to power a stealth jet?
5th gen jets require stealth coatings, engine needs to be properly placed in airframe to reduce heat signature, it also required on board climate control system so that engine and other components don't overheat leaving vulnerable to detection by irst.

Not to forget internal weapons bay and massively powerful ew suit to jam incoming missiles and spoofing enemy radars.

Another thing it needs is supercuise ability to fly at supersonic speed without afterburner.

This is how they make a stealth jet which will not be detected by radars and irst .

Semi stealth jets dont exist it will just be another 4th gen jet. Awecs can detect any jet even with 0.5 RCS from 300-400km.

I don’t what delusional world some of these people think.
Amca dude it’s 15 years away and no one is hurry.
Where as imagine china with 300-500 fifth gen fighter.
We have no chance to hold the grounds.
It’s not a long term solution india needs but short term is required right now and keep long term running.

If amca was future then we should have realised this in 2012-13. Now it’s too late. By 15 years atleast. And we New’s engine even if are able to make it ready.
What happens to world in 15 years is left to be seen. Dynamics are changing and china is at the center of it.

 

[fire starter]

Lol seriously is there any project which these nincompoop can finish on time.

View: https://x.com/cvkrishnan/status/1923769577806365037?t=Riz8mjTFdPqwTAEs3O_Flw&s=19


View: https://x.com/sriramthg/status/1923676334032814259?t=4RO6uS3ddQO62c8wnzJ3GQ&s=19

 

[ArjunMK1A]

Lol seriously is there any project which these nincompoop can finish on time.

View: https://x.com/cvkrishnan/status/1923769577806365037?t=Riz8mjTFdPqwTAEs3O_Flw&s=19


View: https://x.com/sriramthg/status/1923676334032814259?t=4RO6uS3ddQO62c8wnzJ3GQ&s=19

MWF by 2030 lol. AMCA will be 2035 only at this rate. Thought AMCA will ready by 2028. Looks like this will be delayed.

 

[silentassassin265]

MWF by 2030 lol. AMCA will be 2035 only at this rate. Thought AMCA will ready by 2028. Looks like this will be delayed.

Mwf timeline is realistic is FF takes place at 2026.
Problem is that it's too little too late.
MWF should have been inducted before 2020 itself right now we should've been inducting amca

 

[FalconSlayers]

IAF is in a shit condition. By 2035 it will have to retire some 200 combat aircrafts (Mirage-2000, Jaguars, MiG-21 and MiG-29). Assuming all goes well, We'll have 132 LCA MK1A delivered by 2030 end and all 170 MK1A delivered by 2032. Even if LCA MK2 line goes operational at 24 jets per annum by 2032 we'll have 70 to 80 LCA MK2 delivered. These are optimistic scenarios. I am assuming no 114 Rafale deal is happening either, maybe 36 additional might be procured. In such a situation, IAF is essentially stagnant much like other forces instead of expanding with fast growing economy. Wonder why additional Su-30 MKIs aren't being ordered except for the 12 meant to replace crashed units, especially when we're replacing medium weight fighters with lightweight Tejas.

I don't see AMCA going into production before 2035, by the time talks for replacing older Su-30 MKI airframes begin.

 

[silentassassin265]

IAF is in a shit condition. By 2035 it will have to retire some 200 combat aircrafts (Mirage-2000, Jaguars, MiG-21 and MiG-29). Assuming all goes well, We'll have 132 LCA MK1A delivered by 2030 end and all 170 MK1A delivered by 2032. Even if LCA MK2 line goes operational at 24 jets per annum by 2032 we'll have 70 to 80 LCA MK2 delivered. These are optimistic scenarios. I am assuming no 114 Rafale deal is happening either, maybe 36 additional might be procured. In such a situation, IAF is essentially stagnant much like other forces instead of expanding with fast growing economy. Wonder why additional Su-30 MKIs aren't being ordered except for the 12 meant to replace crashed units, especially when we're replacing medium weight fighters with lightweight Tejas.

I don't think mirage or jaguar will even last that long, they are crashing so frequently that they will be retired by 2028 itself.
Mig 29 we can upgrade with uttam radar and astra bvr we might need to replace engine to in order to use it till 2035

 

[FalconSlayers]

I don't think mirage or jaguar will even last that long, they are crashing so frequently that they will be retired by 2028 itself.
Mig 29 we can upgrade with uttam radar and astra bvr we might need to replace engine to in order to use it till 2035

IAF will probably reduce flight hours for those Mirage and Jaguar air frames. Kind of how porkis are doing for their even older Mirage-3 and 5 (still are crashing frequently).

IAF is in a really sad state of affairs.

 

[silentassassin265]

IAF will probably reduce flight hours for those Mirage and Jaguar air frames. Kind of how porkis are doing for their even older Mirage-3 and 5 (still are crashing frequently).

IAF is in a really sad state of affairs.

Is keeping them up even beneficial? They can't carry bvram and require tons of maintainance.

 

[FalconSlayers]

Is keeping them up even beneficial? They can't carry bvram and require tons of maintainance.

In air to ground roles only. Jaguars were used last week for airstrikes on paki airbases using Rampage missiles.

 

[bakofbakchod]

IAF is in a shit condition. By 2035 it will have to retire some 200 combat aircrafts (Mirage-2000, Jaguars, MiG-21 and MiG-29). Assuming all goes well, We'll have 132 LCA MK1A delivered by 2030 end and all 170 MK1A delivered by 2032. Even if LCA MK2 line goes operational at 24 jets per annum by 2032 we'll have 70 to 80 LCA MK2 delivered. These are optimistic scenarios. I am assuming no 114 Rafale deal is happening either, maybe 36 additional might be procured. In such a situation, IAF is essentially stagnant much like other forces instead of expanding with fast growing economy. Wonder why additional Su-30 MKIs aren't being ordered except for the 12 meant to replace crashed units, especially when we're replacing medium weight fighters with lightweight Tejas.

I don't see AMCA going into production before 2035, by the time talks for replacing older Su-30 MKI airframes begin.

Modi government has been an absolute disaster for the IAF. Basically another wasted decade. HAL babus need to be directly monitored by PMO, and severely punished if they fail to reach deadlines. enough is enough of these people running their mouths, giving deadlines they are not meeting. In return, MOD + govt shouldn't have been playing with budgets. HAL needs to be given whatever money it needs to get projects running on time. waiting for years and then funding$1-2 billion is not how it should be done. AMCA is a meme and is not going to fly anytime soon. ADA has max 2000 headcount, and you are saying these chaps will deliver a 5th gen jet??

In the short term, shoving more Tejas Mk-1A to IAF + restarting sukhoi line is the only way to go. Can't believe they are asking for 5 more years for super sukhoi, a program i was reading nearly a decade ago. Do HAL babus really work only 40 hours a month? Their pace of work is unacceptable. If they lack manpower or resources, it is time for them to publically start calling government out

 

[username unkown]

IAF is in a shit condition. By 2035 it will have to retire some 200 combat aircrafts (Mirage-2000, Jaguars, MiG-21 and MiG-29). Assuming all goes well, We'll have 132 LCA MK1A delivered by 2030 end and all 170 MK1A delivered by 2032. Even if LCA MK2 line goes operational at 24 jets per annum by 2032 we'll have 70 to 80 LCA MK2 delivered. These are optimistic scenario

Actual timeline for lca mk2 is 2028-29 for production which is best case scenario but consider few delay it would go like 2030 last because most of system and sub system are extensively tested in lca mk1 and it will get big orders close to 300-400 so its production will atleast have to be 30-40 aircraft per year as minimum by 2035 we should have atleast 150 lca mk2 as bare minimum not even counting how many lca mk1a we will already have in service

 

[FalconSlayers]

Modi government has been an absolute disaster for the IAF. Basically another wasted decade. HAL babus need to be directly monitored by PMO, and severely punished if they fail to reach deadlines. enough is enough of these people running their mouths, giving deadlines they are not meeting. In return, MOD + govt shouldn't have been playing with budgets. HAL needs to be given whatever money it needs to get projects running on time. waiting for years and then funding$1-2 billion is not how it should be done. AMCA is a meme and is not going to fly anytime soon. ADA has max 2000 headcount, and you are saying these chaps will deliver a 5th gen jet??

In the short term, shoving more Tejas Mk-1A to IAF + restarting sukhoi line is the only way to go. Can't believe they are asking for 5 more years for super sukhoi, a program i was reading nearly a decade ago. Do HAL babus really work only 40 hours a month? Their pace of work is unacceptable. If they lack manpower or resources, it is time for them to publically start calling government out

They are simultaneously running half a dozen projects with negligible manpower. It was obvious they were bluffing. Look at the manpower of Chinese and American aerospace manufacturing and design firms, multiple times more than Indian equivalent (we just have 1 each). There's a reason they are able to simultaneously work on and deploy multiple types of aircrafts while we can't even get one done correctly.

Not to mention this "private sector partnership" nonsense Modi govt did delaying the programmes for years despite knowing no private sector firm in India has ever built a basic propellor aircraft of own design, let alone a 4.5 or 5th gen aircraft. Only solution would be expanding the size of HAL in terms of employee strength and production capacity which still will be futile as engine deliveries depend on Uncle Sam .

Actual timeline for lca mk2 is 2028-29 for production which is best case scenario but consider few delay it would go like 2030 last because most of system and sub system are extensively tested in lca mk1 and it will get big orders close to 300-400 so its production will atleast have to be 30-40 aircraft per year as minimum by 2035 we should have atleast 150 lca mk2 as bare minimum not even counting how many lca mk1a we will already have in service

Naive of you to think that thing can go into mass production by 2030 let alone 2028/29. It won't happen before 2032/33 in the best case scenario.

 

[jaijaganath]

IAF is in a shit condition. By 2035 it will have to retire some 200 combat aircrafts (Mirage-2000, Jaguars, MiG-21 and MiG-29). Assuming all goes well, We'll have 132 LCA MK1A delivered by 2030 end and all 170 MK1A delivered by 2032. Even if LCA MK2 line goes operational at 24 jets per annum by 2032 we'll have 70 to 80 LCA MK2 delivered. These are optimistic scenarios. I am assuming no 114 Rafale deal is happening either, maybe 36 additional might be procured. In such a situation, IAF is essentially stagnant much like other forces instead of expanding with fast growing economy. Wonder why additional Su-30 MKIs aren't being ordered except for the 12 meant to replace crashed units, especially when we're replacing medium weight fighters with lightweight Tejas.

I don't see AMCA going into production before 2035, by the time talks for replacing older Su-30 MKI airframes begin.

Don't forget to mention delay in su-30 upgrades
It's not comming in next 5 years that to for only 84 aircrafts
I want to know who was that fool who proposed the idea of 84 aircrafts when upgrades will happen after 5 years
They are becoming technologically obsolete

 

[Pundit Pikachu]

Porkies will surely have upper hand if they get 5th gen jet.
But will the HTEF even be enough to power a stealth jet?
5th gen jets require stealth coatings, engine needs to be properly placed in airframe to reduce heat signature, it also required on board climate control system so that engine and other components don't overheat leaving vulnerable to detection by irst.

What part of a semi stealth trainer Jet with a combined thrust of 80 kn are you having trouble understanding.
Emphasis on semi stealth and Trainer

Get rid of all the unnecessary fluff, no coatings, no EOTS, no fancy EW suite, just stealth shaping and avionics of AMCA to familiarise the pilot with 5th and 5.5th gen features like Loyal Wingman etc,

we need a plane which is better than 4th gen trainers but somewhat less capable than a 5th gen platform, we are making a trainer not a fighter aircraft so none of your concerns of muh super cruise muh Uber expensive EW suite, EOTS matter much, it's like being concerned about lack of an internal EW suite or IRST on a 4th gen fighter trainer

My main motivation for this proposal is that you need a stealth platform to effectively train pilots for a battlefield littered with 5th gen platforms

Also semi stealth was just a random proposal, the main point was any plane powered by two uprated HTFE 40 would be cheaper and more redundant than whatever monstrosity that we are planning to make with HLFT 42, that plane will 100 be a failure.

We need a desi L-15 plain and simple, if it's stealth shaped even better

I don’t what delusional world some of these people think.
Amca dude it’s 15 years away and no one is hurry.
Where as imagine china with 300-500 fifth gen fighter.
We have no chance to hold the grounds.
It’s not a long term solution india needs but short term is required right now and keep long term running.

If amca was future then we should have realised this in 2012-13. Now it’s too late. By 15 years atleast. And we New’s engine even if are able to make it ready.
What happens to world in 15 years is left to be seen. Dynamics are changing and china is at the center of it

Atleast my delusions are better than your constant black pilling of muh AMCA 15 years late it's the end of the world now.
so effing what if AMCA is 15 years late what other choice do you have, throw our hands up and do nothing,
Or maybe you have a better way, maybe we should be at the mercy of orange man so that he can dictate don't fight with Porkis or we will disable you F35s.
Or maybe you want us to be at the mercy of a god forsaken joke of a "5th gen" fighter from the Ruskies

 

[username unkown]

Naive of you to think that thing can go into mass production by 2030 let alone 2028/29. It won't happen before 2032/33 in the best case scenario.

Hal have claimed from start lca mk2 will be in production after 2-3 years of ff i.e. 2028-29 which is i think best case scenario but hard to achieve 2030 is more realistic timeline and it will be achieved considering it would be inducted asap and mistake with lca mk1 trial and induction won't be repeated