Indian Air Force: News & Discussions (38 Viewers)

[randombully]

That would be very stupid of us. is the perfect weapon to carry out nuclear strikes. Why wouldn't we leverage it and leave it to those slow moving Jaguars carrying gravity nuke?

There are internal talks and some ideas about doing it.
But no "credible" news that any work has started.

Second, our policy is different.
Unlike france which has policy of "pre-emtive" "tactical nuke" strike policy as a warning, using its rafale and asmp-a.

We have "no first use" policy, only nuclear retaliation.

Using a missile, that is heavily in "conventional" service with indian armed forces, also for "nuke" delivery role, can lead to some misunderstandings, especially with nuclear rabid dog like pakistan, which can misinterpret, conventional brahmos as nuclear.

 

[BON PLAN]

Hmm, is an air launched anti ship varient in works?
And the top speed is quoted to be mach 3 from what I know.

Before the warsaw pact collapse, a supersonic anti ship missile, called ANF was studied with germany (Anti Navire Future = futur anti ship missile).
Then it was cancelled.
It was not a direct derivative of ASMP (see mainly the air intakes), but with 2 same main features as integrated booster and liquid stato.



The future is now in the form of FMAN missile (I think it is a RJ10 derivative, but not sure).

 

[BON PLAN]

And the top speed is quoted to be mach 3 from what I know.

It is the offical data (arround mach 3). In fact it is higher.

 

[randombully]

we can paint some other colour (yellow, red etc) to nuclear tipped brahmos nd also remove brahmos sticker from brahmos missile. so pakistani cant see it from long distance nd know its identity.

My guy, I don't think I need to tell you the "cautious' nature of our armed forces and Babus, especially SFC babus.

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

There are internal talks and some ideas about doing it.
But no "credible" news that any work has started.

Second, our policy is different.
Unlike france which has policy of "pre-emtive" "tactical nuke" strike policy as a warning, using its rafale and asmp-a.

We have "no first use" policy, only nuclear retaliation.

Using a missile, that is heavily in "conventional" service with indian armed forces, also for "nuke" delivery role, can lead to some misunderstandings, especially with nuclear rabid dog like pakistan, which can misinterpret, conventional brahmos as nuclear.

we can paint some other colour (yellow, red etc) to nuclear tipped brahmos nd also remove brahmos sticker from brahmos missile. so pakistani cant see it from long distance nd know its identity.

The issue is not only that it could be "misinterpreted" as nuclear strike, it also opens up doors to intentional misrepresentations of the use of brahmos. If we fire a big salvo of missiles, which could possibly be nuclear tipped, pakistanis can claim it was "unintentionally" seen as a nuclear first strike to which they fired a small nuke in response.

Basically, creating nuclear threats when you dont intend to use them is a dumb idea since it gives an opportunity to adversaries to escalate up the nuclear ladder.

Regarding interceptions, Agni5 is faaar more difficult to intercept. Mach 25-30 in terminal phase vs 3-5 mach.

 

[vin pahadi (kumauni)]

The issue is not only that it could be "misinterpreted" as nuclear strike, it also opens up doors to intentional misrepresentations of the use of brahmos. If we fire a big salvo of missiles, which could possibly be nuclear tipped, pakistanis can claim it was "unintentionally" seen as a nuclear first strike to which they fired a small nuke in response.

Basically, creating nuclear threats when you dont intend to use them is a dumb idea since it gives an opportunity to adversaries to escalate up the nuclear ladder.

Regarding interceptions, Agni5 is faaar more difficult to intercept. Mach 25-30 in terminal phase vs 3-5 mach.

i think shaurya missile like quasi ballistic missile is good option for nuclear delivery from aircrafts. we hv to decrease its length to 5-6 meter from 10 meter. same we should decrease its weight to 1 ton from 5 ton weight. then its range of 700 km will also decrease to near 200-300 km. shaurya missile speed is near 7.5 mach.

 

[randombully]

i think shaurya missile like quasi ballistic missile is good option for nuclear delivery from aircrafts. we hv to decrease its weight to 5-6 meter from 10 meter length. same we should decrease its weight to 1 ton from 5 ton weight. then its range of 700 km will also decrease to near 200-300 km.

Imo, we kind of don't need a "fighter jet" delivered nuke.
It's more of a "luxury".
Plus least effective out of all the 3 methods of traids in general, even with stealth bombers and stealth fighter jets, which we also don't have.

Plus that fighter jet delivered 20 Kilo ton nuke of our, is border line between tactical nuke and stratigic, pretty small for a stratigic nuke.

So unless we have stealth fighters, or stealth deliver platforms," IMO" it's better to just focus on land based "mobile tels" "silos" and ocean based "SSBN" methods of nuke delivery, these two methods alone are as survivable as nuclear triad.

The only use of small fighter jet based nuke in our context is
1, against pakistan.
2, and general small scale nuclear exchange, still devastating, but not at the level of MAD when icbms are flying.

 

[Azaad]

If we've actually tested 100 + missiles it should be categorised into pre development tests , user trials & finally random inventory tests.

Even if the last category turns out to be ~ 30-40 , you can assume our inventory should be a minimum ~ 3000 nos across our armed forces. Nobody tests more than 1-2% of the total inventory .

If you're really interested in the actual numbers , all you've to do is go through the annual reports of Godrej Industries since 1998 for they were / still are ( IIRC ) the sole vendors for the chassis of the .

Besides the is a dual use missile for tactical & strategic usage. That's the reason the MKIs were modified to carry them & the same number of MKIs were also tasked with service under the SFC.

A good deal of our testing is also to check for readiness & accuracy given its strategic role which sort of plays into improving its efficacy in tactical role as well.

Alhamdulillah !

Here's the page where most articles connected to the SFC opting for 42 Su-30 MKI is contained. The proposal was first made public in 2010.

Google Search

Here's the page where most if not all articles connected to the reconfiguration of 40 Su-30 MKI to carry the is contained. The proposal was first mooted in 2012.

Google Search

Notably, a specific order for 42 Su-30MKIs has been assigned to the Strategic Forces Command (SFC), where these aircraft will undergo optimization and be specially equipped for nuclear weapons delivery. Previously, the SFC presented a proposal to the Indian Defence Ministry advocating the establishment of two dedicated fighter squadrons comprising 40 aircraft, all possessing the capability to deploy nuclear weapons.

Let's Delve Into The Details Of The Indian Made Su-30MKI NATO Code Name Flanker-H. It Is A Twinjet Multirole Air Superiority Fighter Developed By Sukhoi And Built Under License By India's Hindustan Aeronautics Limited. This Formidable Powerhouse Embo

Let's Delve Into The Details Of The Indian Made Su-30MKI, This formidable powerhouse embodies cutting-edge technology and exceptional agility...

airpra.com

There also have been reports that the integration process includes reinforcing the Su-30MKI’s undercarriage and installing hardened electronic circuitry to withstand the electromagnetic pulses of a nuclear blast as the BrahMos-A missile is thought to be dual-capable, although the Indian MoD has repeatedly denied any plans to modify the cruise missile to carry a nuclear payload.

India Stands Up New Su-30MKI Squadron

The fighter jets of the new squadron are expected to be armed with the air-launched version of the BrahMos supersonic cruise missile.

thediplomat.com

Trust the above is self explanatory.

Not many Indian sources have commented on this co incidence which didn't go unnoticed in the international community especially in Paxtan & China much like the real range of the Agni V came out from the Chinese side which loudly protested the first time we tested moving the UN to register their protests.

Meanwhile , looks like our guys are really good at keeping secrets . Except for AM Anil Chopra in an article for CAPS I read some time back which is untraceable now ( for obvious reasons I reckon ) I've not come across a single Indian source even hinting at it leave aside coming up with a revelation.

I leave it to you guys to connect the dots.

 

[randombully]

Here's the page where most articles connected to the SFC opting for 42 Su-30 MKI is contained. The proposal was first made public in 2010.

Google Search

Here's the page where most if not all articles connected to the reconfiguration of 40 Su-30 MKI to carry the is contained. The proposal was first mooted in 2012.

Google Search

Let's Delve Into The Details Of The Indian Made Su-30MKI NATO Code Name Flanker-H. It Is A Twinjet Multirole Air Superiority Fighter Developed By Sukhoi And Built Under License By India's Hindustan Aeronautics Limited. This Formidable Powerhouse Embo

Let's Delve Into The Details Of The Indian Made Su-30MKI, This formidable powerhouse embodies cutting-edge technology and exceptional agility...

airpra.com

India Stands Up New Su-30MKI Squadron

The fighter jets of the new squadron are expected to be armed with the air-launched version of the BrahMos supersonic cruise missile.

thediplomat.com

Trust the above is self explanatory.

Not many Indian sources have commented on this co incidence which didn't go unnoticed in the international community especially in Paxtan & China much like the real range of the Agni V came out from the Chinese side which loudly protested the first time we tested moving the UN to register their protests.

Meanwhile , looks like our guys are really good at keeping secrets . Except for AM Anil Chopra in an article for CAPS I read some time back which is untraceable now ( for obvious reasons I reckon ) I've not come across a single Indian source even hinting at it leave aside coming up with a revelation.

I leave it to you guys to connect the dots.

Listen man.
Delete this.

@mist_consecutive, delete this.

 

[Azaad]

Listen man.
Delete this.

@mist_consecutive, delete this.

BC ki aulaad this has been your MO since the beginning. Bait & switch. This is precisely the reason I've told you to disengage .

The news has been all over the internet since more than a decade. It's only nobody in a defence forum such as ours is interested in finding out the truth or in connecting the dots or indulging in something called analysis.

Most are here just to post memes on Paxtanis & BD & laugh it out.

 

[randombully]

BC ki aulaad this has been your MO since the beginning. Bait & switch. This is precisely the reason I've told you to disengage .

The news has been all over the internet since more than a decade. It's only nobody in a defence forum such as ours is interested in finding out the truth or in connecting the dots or indulging in something called analysis.

Most are here just to post memes on Paxtanis & BD & laugh it out.

Good, I'm sorry.
Please delete it.

 

[Galaxy]

I have written the same thing in DFI and here as well. One of the reasons why I am not shivering that AMCA will not be a reality until 2035. 5th generation jets are highly maintenance intensive with high operational costs. I believe F-35B or F-35C availability is even worse. That is why our focus must be on Tejas MK2 and ORCA 4.5 generation aircrafts. We will figure out how to counter 5th generation jets in the mean time. But let's not compromise our plans with Tejas MK2, ORCA, and TEDBF.

By the way, F-35 pilots have also been instructed not to go supersonic because they lose their stealth coating.

When It Comes to Supersonic Flight, the F-35’s Wings Are Clipped

Sustained supersonic speeds could cause lasting damage to the F-35's stealth capabilities.

www.popularmechanics.com

People here who have been jerking off to importing F-35 or even Su-57 should understand what truly makes a 5th generation fighter aircraft. I don't consider Su-57 stealth or for that matter 5th generation. It has the planeform of a 5th generation fighter and nothing more. And also Russian aircraft desingers are still in the Soviet era emphasizing more on dog fights rather than network centric warfare and BVR fights.

I am completely against any more imports apart from 3 more squadrones that is 54 Rafales to bridge the gap until Tejas MK2 and any twin engine fighters are ready. I hope DRDO and GoI stick to the plan and roll out MK1A, MK2, ORCA, TEDBF, AMCA, own engine. Moving the goal posts and starting all over again is not an option.

How is SU-57 not 5th generation? It is full of features and innovation not found on any other aircraft in the world such as side mounted and rear radar giving it 360 degree situational awareness, it also has deep sensor fusion integration especially with its defensive suit such as MAWS. It also has DIRCM and L band which no other fighter has in the world besides only the J-20 having just a DIRCM. It also has ultraviolet censors, a helmet with digital display that also is slaved to cameras giving it a similar function the the F-35 helmet. Other notable features are voice command, integration of communicating with and controlling large stealth drones, ect and this is just the stuff known to the public. All these features make even an F-22 seem ancient.

The current SU-57M under the Megapolis program also has the new flat nozzle engines producing 167km and only weighing only 1,450kg, in comparison the F-22s engine produces 156km and weighs 2,300kg. Show me another engine anywhere in the world that has that kind of power to weigh ratio.

Other improvements of the Megapolis program includes improved refinement and redesigns to airframe primarily to the lower fuselage and other areas giving the aircraft a superior RCS and better super cruise and improved cockpit and avionics.

 

[Galaxy]

"I am having good laugh at people commenting r 37 not manuverable or able to hit fighter jet "
lol r 37 is old bulky missile and it reaches mach 6 of course it not gonna be any manuverable with advance warming any fighter jet can Dodge it by manuvers it designed to hit enemy awacs , tankers ,etc

Muh 213km kill from su57 which are only 20 are made and still under testing yeah sure buddy they sure did shoot it down
R37 is bulky when you compare it to other aam and those sam you are talking about well those long-range sam have multiple different missile interceptors for different role lets take s 400 as example
400 km missile is for force multiplayer like awacs and iaf used it for that very role
Those 250 km & 120 km varient are for fighter jet as they are more agile and manuverable
View attachment 42037

The instances I was referring to in regards to R-37M combat kills involved an SU-35 shooting down an MiG-29 from 213km, the other instance is an SU-30 shooting down SU-27 from 130kms. Although an SU-57 supposedly also used an R-37M to make a kill out to 217kms.

The S-400 also has kills exceeding 150kms, meaning it was using its larger missiles to make that happen. Plus you are also ignoring the Israeli F-16 shot down by Syria in 2018 while using an S-200 missile that was over 35 feet long. People claiming the R-37M is too big to shoot down fighters are clueless and have no idea what they are talking about.

 

[concard]

How is SU-57 not 5th generation? It is full of features and innovation not found on any other aircraft in the world such as side mounted and rear radar giving it 360 degree situational awareness, it also has deep sensor fusion integration especially with its defensive suit such as MAWS. It also has DIRCM and L band which no other fighter has in the world besides only the J-20 having just a DIRCM. It also has ultraviolet censors, a helmet with digital display that also is slaved to cameras giving it a similar function the the F-35 helmet. Other notable features are voice command, integration of communicating with and controlling large stealth drones, ect and this is just the stuff known to the public. All these features make even an F-22 seem ancient.

The current SU-57M under the Megapolis program also has the new flat nozzle engines producing 167km and only weighing only 1,450kg, in comparison the F-22s engine produces 156km and weighs 2,300kg. Show me another engine anywhere in the world that has that kind of power to weigh ratio.

Other improvements of the Megapolis program includes improved refinement and redesigns to airframe primarily to the lower fuselage and other areas giving the aircraft a superior RCS and better super cruise and improved cockpit and avionics.

SU-57 better than F-22? You can't be serious. If it is so what stopped Russia from mass producing it and inducting it in greater numbers? Yes, they strapped a bunch of radars on the back and sides. Radars are Russia's strong point. Yet, it doesn't boast a AESA radar. As far as the engine goes, I wonder it's mean time between overhaul, ease of maintenance and fuel efficiency. The numbers look great on paper. Is it in mass production?

Russians normally import all electronics from China, I doubt you can claim they have great avionics in SU-57. If it is a great product Russians would have continued the program and inducted in good numbers. Yet, here we are after 15 years since it's first flight. India pulled out of the project and Russians gave up on SU-57.

 

[liberalredditor]

How is SU-57 not 5th generation? It is full of features and innovation not found on any other aircraft in the world such as side mounted and rear radar giving it 360 degree situational awareness, it also has deep sensor fusion integration especially with its defensive suit such as MAWS. It also has DIRCM and L band which no other fighter has in the world besides only the J-20 having just a DIRCM. It also has ultraviolet censors, a helmet with digital display that also is slaved to cameras giving it a similar function the the F-35 helmet. Other notable features are voice command, integration of communicating with and controlling large stealth drones, ect and this is just the stuff known to the public. All these features make even an F-22 seem ancient.

The current SU-57M under the Megapolis program also has the new flat nozzle engines producing 167km and only weighing only 1,450kg, in comparison the F-22s engine produces 156km and weighs 2,300kg. Show me another engine anywhere in the world that has that kind of power to weigh ratio.

Other improvements of the Megapolis program includes improved refinement and redesigns to airframe primarily to the lower fuselage and other areas giving the aircraft a superior RCS and better super cruise and improved cockpit and avionics.

the current su57 has a huge rcs, thanks to large airframe with negligible ram paint, exposed fan blades, a huge irst right in the front, 90 degree angle in between intake and wings, they could not even fix basic things for vlo standards. their electronics capability is doubted as they source from xhowmein land, although their aircrafts are best for airshows and acrobatics

 

[shade2]

SU-57 better than F-22? You can't be serious. If it is so what stopped Russia from mass producing it and inducting it in greater numbers? Yes, they strapped a bunch of radars on the back and sides. Radars are Russia's strong point. Yet, it doesn't boast a AESA radar. As far as the engine goes, I wonder it's mean time between overhaul, ease of maintenance and fuel efficiency. The numbers look great on paper. Is it in mass production?

Russians normally import all electronics from China, I doubt you can claim they have great avionics in SU-57. If it is a great product Russians would have continued the program and inducted in good numbers. Yet, here we are after 15 years since it's first flight. India pulled out of the project and Russians gave up on SU-57.

the current su57 has a huge rcs, thanks to large airframe with negligible ram paint, exposed fan blades, a huge irst right in the front, 90 degree angle in between intake and wings, they could not even fix basic things for vlo standards. their electronics capability is doubted as they source from xhowmein land, although their aircrafts are best for airshows and acrobatics

Su-57 is literally the plane version of our INS Vikramaditya.

Which was "Da, Indisky, we hyav Aircraft Kyarrier at home"

It was developed from the Su-27 family explicitly as a derivative to have commonality with the aforementioned plane, as a poor man's """""5th gen"""""" fighter.

Ruskals unironically boast that we can produce the Su-57 from HAL's Nashik plant( which produces Su30MKI ) with minimal tooling changes

It is an upgrade over the Su30MKI as a complete package definetly, but it is not a 5th gen fighter.

 

[liberalredditor]

Su-57 is literally the plane version of our INS Vikramaditya.

Which was "Da, Indisky, we hyav Aircraft Kyarrier at home"

It was developed from the Su-27 family explicitly as a derivative to have commonality with the aforementioned plane, as a poor man's """""5th gen"""""" fighter.

Ruskals unironically boast that we can produce the Su-57 from HAL's Nashik plant( which produces Su30MKI ) with minimal tooling changes

It is an upgrade over the Su30MKI as a complete package definetly, but it is not a 5th gen fighter.

su57 is better than rusted balloon killer f22, period. but it is max in the leagues of 4.5 gen fighters like rafale f4 and all. true 5th gen is f35 and j35 till now. they both are a result of long iterational research and development and production upgrades. but the actual ones are kept with the home nation.

how can we forget another russian dalali which used to happen, wooded su75 mockup which costed 30 million usd even before becoming a prototype. i remember people used to say ditch mwf and go for su75

 

[shade2]

su57 is better than rusted balloon killer f22, period. but it is max in the leagues of 4.5 gen fighters like rafale f4 and all. true 5th gen is f35 and j35 till now. they both are a result of long iterational research and development and production upgrades. but the actual ones are kept with the home nation.

how can we forget another russian dalali which used to happen, wooded su75 mockup which costed 30 million usd even before becoming a prototype. i remember people used to say ditch mwf and go for su75

Arre F22 may not have the fancy electronics and all but atleast it has all the stealth stuff that is core of 5th gen fighter

>Stealth shaping( half assed on su57)
>S-duct intakes( not present )
>RAM paint( not sure if su57 has this and what is the quality )
>IWB( su57 has this )
>rectangular engine nozzles( helps with rcs and IR stealth i guess, not sure, su57 has in development onlee )

As I said it's a great( and perhaps cheap? ) upgrade to the Su-27 family, however don't think our MKI need an upgrade in terms of airframe.

Only way forward is to go all in on AMCA, but ofc dalals who have passed UPSC, dalals who have won elections and dalas wearing uniforms don't want this, so F-35 aayega in 10-15 years.

 

[username unkown]

The instances I was referring to in regards to R-37M combat kills involved an SU-35 shooting down an MiG-29 from 213km, the other instance is an SU-30 shooting down SU-27 from 130kms. Although an SU-57 supposedly also used an R-37M to make a kill out to 217kms.

Ruski tg channel were claiming su 57 shot down mig 29 from 213 km notsu 35
Never heard of su57 217 km kill
I am not denying possibility that it can't shoot down old soviet era avionics fighter jet still its ideal and made as awacs killer and is not manuverable due to its bulky size

And yeah s400 kills exceed 150 km because there is 250 km interceptor and 400km one

 

[liberalredditor]

Arre F22 may not have the fancy electronics and all but atleast it has all the stealth stuff that is core of 5th gen fighter

>Stealth shaping( half assed on su57)
>S-duct intakes( not present )
>RAM paint( not sure if su57 has this and what is the quality )
>IWB( su57 has this )
>rectangular engine nozzles( helps with rcs and IR stealth i guess, not sure, su57 has in development onlee )

As I said it's a great( and perhaps cheap? ) upgrade to the Su-27 family, however don't think our MKI need an upgrade in terms of airframe.

Only way forward is to go all in on AMCA, but ofc dalals who have passed UPSC, dalals who have won elections and dalas wearing uniforms don't want this, so F-35 aayega in 10-15 years.

bhaijaan stealth is overhyped, you will get radars to bypass x band stealth, the core is the next gen mlu/subsytems/avionics/ew which dominates the sky. you put 4.5 gen subsytem in f22 body and make it fight with f35, f35 would destroy its electronics.

btw congrats to every def enthu on reaching 200th page of import air and space force