Indian Air Force: News & Discussions (39 Viewers)

[snakeeyes07]

Did some stealth testing in CMO (commercial):
- SU-57 is not a stealth aircraft, it gets detected and tracked by TPS77 radar at fairly long distances. AAMs and SAMs were launched at it during engagement.
- J35A is a true stealth aircraft, it gets detected by Nebo-M VHF radar (roleplaying as DRDO VHF radars) at 100nm (~185km) but this is a imprecise position (not tracking quality). S400 never launched at it, the closest it got to Adampur was around 110-120km (around Kasur). Rafales fired meteors at it around 85-95 km, J35 were able to defeat the missiles easily.

I tried to manually fire missiles at J35 but didn't get weapon authorization due to imprecise target position. I have to check if there is a way to do an override and still fire.

Any suggestion on tactic/strategy?

 

[Kontakt5]

Did some stealth testing in CMO (commercial):
- SU-57 is not a stealth aircraft, it gets detected and tracked by TPS77 radar at fairly long distances. AAMs and SAMs were launched at it during engagement.
- J35A is a true stealth aircraft, it gets detected by Nebo-M VHF radar (roleplaying as DRDO VHF radars) at 100nm (~185km) but this is a imprecise position (not tracking quality). S400 never launched at it, the closest it got to Adampur was around 110-120km (around Kasur). Rafales fired meteors at it around 85-95 km, J35 were able to defeat the missiles easily.

I tried to manually fire missiles at J35 but didn't get weapon authorization due to imprecise target position. I have to check if there is a way to do an override and still fire.

Any suggestion on tactic/strategy?

Isn't CMO just a realistic game? How do they get the classified stealth figures of in real life aircraft?

 

[snakeeyes07]

Isn't CMO just a realistic game? How do they get the classified stealth figures of in real life aircraft?

CMO (commercial) relies on their internal database which is based of open source data.

CMO (professional) relies on classified data and also gives weapon property customization ability. This is placed under US export control law and can only be used by US government and military. Also by US defense contractors, think tanks or friendly militaries.

 

[snakeeyes07]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gagnmG8ocqQ

 

[randombully]

This is pretty much raise a question?

What exactly IAF is trying to achieve by buying Rafale's. We got delivery from 2018 to 2021. For the last 4 years, there is no integration of Missiles, bombs developed by India. We did not get meteor integration, even the Decoy system is not delivered. Then barring SDR systems nothing come significantly from this platform. Instead the SU30MKI proved more useful by launching A.


This proves to be the Mig 29K situation, all glits and glamour and the platform is basically useless for Navy.

I will pretty much goes with 114 SU-30MKI with composite airframe. Screw Russians for certifications. Let HAL handle the certification. At least the SU-30MKI can carry , Astra Mk1, MK2, NGRAM, Rudram 2, HSLD Bombs etc.

Iaf was not aware that there would be delays in ISE Implementation.
They made the deal for the best platform out of all the platforms they were offered at that time.
They also planned for lots of modification(ISE) to keep the the platform cutting edge in future 10+ years too, added all the goodies that they could think of at that time on the platform to be implemented in future as india specific enhancements.

But things always don't go as planned, especially in military context where things rarely go as planned from start.
It's more of a dassult's fault for delays in ISE.

What I'm more pissed about is the lethargic altitude of IAF, as while fleet wide ISE was delayed mf's didn't even thought about seperate fleet wide Implementation of things like meteor, decoys, spice family of bombs etc.

Such integration issues with Tejas, immediately faces heavy criticism. But in the case of Rafale, there’s hardly any noise—even though they aren’t arriving with the Indian UTTAM AESA radar because Dassault quoted an unreasonably high price for its integration. That’s why I’ve always maintained that no fighter will be as seamlessly compatible with Indian systems as Tejas and the upgraded Super Sukhoi. Only after Rafales are fully integrated with Indian systems will the Indian Air Force be able to utilize their full potential. Also, India urgently needs to develop its own X-Guard type towed decoy system.

Rafale in India is engulfed in a political controversy.
So if any problem arises w.r.t to rafale, it will not be publicized.

 

[randombully]

but 30-40 years for military aircraft is nothing. we are going to see 100 years of ops of american b52

Those american b52's were also "re-skinned" I.e. new fuselage panels.

And lots of older part of aircraft's main skeleton beams/parts are replaced regularly.

There is not a single part in current b52's that is more than 30 years old.

 

[randombully]

we hv enough air force quality, which our defence budget provide us.

We Don't tho .

 

[snakeeyes07]

how reliable these simulations??? when u hv no data of actual systems or very limited data. neither u hv data of quality of machines.

CMO (commercial) relies on their internal database which is based of open source data.

CMO (professional) relies on classified data and also gives weapon property customization ability. This is placed under US export control law and can only be used by US government and military. Also by US defense contractors, think tanks or friendly militaries.

CMO both commercial and professional have the same simulation engine but the commercial one relies on a database that is constructed from open source data.

 

[liberalredditor]

Those american b52's were also "re-skinned" I.e. new fuselage panels.

And lots of older part of aircraft's main skeleton beams/parts are replaced regularly.

There is not a single part in current b52's that is more than 30 years old.

Which means they do regular overhauls and maintenance

 

[randombully]

Which means they do regular overhauls and maintenance

By now, Its a new aircraft entirely, only having same design as original b52's.

It's like Chinese j16 and russian su30's.
Not like russian su30's and Indian su30mki.

 

[liberalredditor]

By now, Its a new aircraft entirely, only having same design as original b52's.

It's like Chinese j16 and russian su30's.
Not like russian su30's and Indian su30mki.

Htfe 40 aayega ya fir hal babudome ka shikaar ban gaya?

 

[randombully]

Htfe 40 aayega ya fir hal babudome ka shikaar ban gaya?

Uske aane ke liye, IAF needs to show serious interest in procuring it, most likely as a lead in fighter Trainer and secondary combat role.

 

[snakeeyes07]

Did some stealth testing in CMO (commercial):
- SU-57 is not a stealth aircraft, it gets detected and tracked by TPS77 radar at fairly long distances. AAMs and SAMs were launched at it during engagement.
- J35A is a true stealth aircraft, it gets detected by Nebo-M VHF radar (roleplaying as DRDO VHF radars) at 100nm (~185km) but this is a imprecise position (not tracking quality). S400 never launched at it, the closest it got to Adampur was around 110-120km (around Kasur). Rafales fired meteors at it around 85-95 km, J35 were able to defeat the missiles easily.

I tried to manually fire missiles at J35 but didn't get weapon authorization due to imprecise target position. I have to check if there is a way to do an override and still fire.

Any suggestion on tactic/strategy?

Contd.
- SU-57 gets detected and tracked by TPS-77 radar which is not the VHF radar (JY-27A)
- Both HQ-9B and S-400 didn't launch at SU-57 and J35 respectively at around 100-110km (may be marginally more for SU-57) due to FCR not able to illuminate targets.
- In terms of VHF radar, JY-27A is better than Nebo-M
- J35s were detected intermittently by Nebo-M starting around 100-110nm (185-203km), then around 88nm (162km) they are detected continuously every 10 seconds (radar rotation cycle). VHF radar doesn't give tracking data but an imprecise position. Not good enough to launch missiles with but good enough to direct interceptors, slave passive sensors, etc. J35s were able to detect and track F35s with their EOTS at around 65nm (120km).
- Rafales had the best IRST amongst SU-57, J35, F35. When Rafales had the general position of J35s provided by Nebo-M, they were able to detect and track J35s with their OSF-IT [FLIR/IRST] at 90-95nm (166-175km). Rafales were able to launch Meteors (D max, 70-90km, the group was scattered from previous engagement) at J35s but none connected.
- Gave Japanese F35A to IAF, these were detected continuously by JY-27A every 10 seconds starting around 120nm (222km). Again as it is a VHF radar so they were only good for air situation picture but no weapon guidance/support.
- F35A shot first against J35, launched AIM-120 D/C8 at around 65-70km (I had set F35 ROE to only fire when optimistic). Scored 1 J35 kill in this salvo and put other J35s in defensive. No F-35s were lost in this exchange. F35s recommitted first and fired another salvo at less than 40-50km. In this exchange, another J35 was shot down and no F35s were hit. Both F35s and J35s were out of their internal BVRs.

Each group of Rafale, F35, J35 were 4x each.

I think more Rafales might be the way to go if no F35s can be ordered.

 

[ArjunMK1A]

Iaf was not aware that there would be delays in ISE Implementation.
They made the deal for the best platform out of all the platforms they were offered at that time.
They also planned for lots of modification(ISE) to keep the the platform cutting edge in future 10+ years too, added all the goodies that they could think of at that time on the platform to be implemented in future as india specific enhancements.

But things always don't go as planned, especially in military context where things rarely go as planned from start.
It's more of a dassult's fault for delays in ISE.

What I'm more pissed about is the lethargic altitude of IAF, as while fleet wide ISE was delayed mf's didn't even thought about seperate fleet wide Implementation of things like meteor, decoys, spice family of bombs etc.


Rafale in India is engulfed in a political controversy.
So if any problem arises w.r.t to rafale, it will not be publicized.

Even in my Professional work, this is blatant unprofessionalism from an vendor lol. IAF is stuck in a bubble where they behaving like a kid wanting every shiny toy. We are in 2025 and still doing MRFA for 4.5th Gen planes like Rafale when our adversary PLAAF have 200-300 J20 and LSP J35 on procurement. Also, they started the work behind J-36. Only if IAF put big stick in MWF and Tejas MK1A at least HAL, DRDO would have worked faster since the stakeholder is monitoring the progress. IAF is purchasing spree and HAL trying to save their asses by using all the airframe for delivery. Only one who is getting Ls were DRDO who were waiting for an testbed to test their EW systems.

Which means they do regular overhauls and maintenance

During 70s, B52 Older Skins were replaced with Aluminium. Since Bomber don't endure high Gs, they can operate for long years. Fighter on the other hand operates high Gs thus more fatigue on airframe.

 

[shade2]

View: https://x.com/AjayshreeSamby3/status/1944119454063112568

Not a peep from the Eurofighter, Gripen merchants, now no F-16 since Tata has switched sides

Let's hope they don't waste more time with the MRFA bullshit and just buy additional Rafales once the Fr*nch deliver on their existing obligations

 

[bakofbakchod]

沈飞27万平方米新厂房曝光！年产100架歼-35？总师：像制造手机一样制造战斗机_风闻

^ click and use google translate. SAC is relocating its factory into a much bigger, 2.7 lakh m2 factory for J-35 mass production. Likely 100+ a year. With this, cheenis will be producing 100+ J-20s a year, and now 100+ J-35s a year. IAF is quite doomed, and even imports cannot salvage things in the medium term. With this capacity, porks can easily get a squadron or 2 of J-35s by end of decade if cheenis are willing

 

[FalconSlayers]

沈飞27万平方米新厂房曝光！年产100架歼-35？总师：像制造手机一样制造战斗机_风闻

^ click and use google translate. SAC is relocating its factory into a much bigger, 2.7 lakh m2 factory for J-35 mass production. Likely 100+ a year. With this, cheenis will be producing 100+ J-20s a year, and now 100+ J-35s a year. IAF is quite doomed, and even imports cannot salvage things in the medium term. With this capacity, porks can easily get a squadron or 2 of J-35s by end of decade if cheenis are willing

Meanwhile the shear brilliance of IAF, only buying 12 more and restarting whole line after rejecting 72 more in 2019 when line was running, by now we would've easily had those 72 more in service and could've run the line much longer.

View: https://x.com/NewsIADN/status/1944372349416956094

 

[Brood Father]

Meanwhile the shear brilliance of IAF, only buying 12 more and restarting whole line after rejecting 72 more in 2019 when line was running, by now we would've easily had those 72 more in service and could've run the line much longer.

View: https://x.com/NewsIADN/status/1944372349416956094

Are these jets not available from shelves .

 

[Doreamon]

Meanwhile the shear brilliance of IAF, only buying 12 more and restarting whole line after rejecting 72 more in 2019 when line was running, by now we would've easily had those 72 more in service and could've run the line much longer.

View: https://x.com/NewsIADN/status/1944372349416956094

We should go for new super sukhoi productions instead of just upgrading the old stock . Upgraded ones are quiet capable fighterjets which can give edge for atleast next 15 years .

 

[shade2]

沈飞27万平方米新厂房曝光！年产100架歼-35？总师：像制造手机一样制造战斗机_风闻

^ click and use google translate. SAC is relocating its factory into a much bigger, 2.7 lakh m2 factory for J-35 mass production. Likely 100+ a year. With this, cheenis will be producing 100+ J-20s a year, and now 100+ J-35s a year. IAF is quite doomed, and even imports cannot salvage things in the medium term. With this capacity, porks can easily get a squadron or 2 of J-35s by end of decade if cheenis are willing

If they transform into the Soviet Daanveer & the Piglets stop whoring around with US, they can get more than just 2 sqdrns of J-35s

It will be a Golden Age for the dalals here tho, overnight our fleet will be replaced with F16, F15, F35, E-7 & Patriot

Anyway with the current trajectory being a US vassal is our fate, whether it's a Ukraine type condom or a Japan/Korea style vassal remains to be seen.

Are these jets not available from shelves .

The way they say "buy from 5 places" makes it seem that way