Indian Army Regiment of Artillery

MBRLs
INDIA-BUDGET-DEFENCE-0_1743531789569_1743532161014.JPG
 
Due to this Pahalgam fiasco, I felt the need to quickly check out Pakistani artillery

I've finally come to the conclusion that they outclass us in almost all respects despite that puny defence budget.

Self propelled 155mm artillery
>400 M109A5 (upgraded to A5)
>300 SH-15 (literally cutting edge MGS)

Rocket
Fatah1/2 up (140-400km range, pretty much look like latest Norinco units)

Im really really sorry to say this, our Generals, all of them, need to be fired. Let's train new officers with US help.

They might as well be taking shits with how effective they are at planning or preparing despite $80 billion defence budget.
 
obiwankenobi said:
Due to this Pahalgam fiasco, I felt the need to quickly check out Pakistani artillery

I've finally come to the conclusion that they outclass us in almost all respects despite that puny defence budget.

Self propelled 155mm artillery
>400 M109A5 (upgraded to A5)
>300 SH-15 (literally cutting edge MGS)

Rocket
Fatah1/2 up (140-400km range, pretty much look like latest Norinco units)

Im really really sorry to say this, our Generals, all of them, need to be fired. Let's train new officers with US help.

They might as well be taking shits with how effective they are at planning or preparing despite $80 billion defence budget.
Click to expand...
Artillery dept has been dragging thier feets over induction for long time. Whenever you ask them it's always testing, bruh testing of these things need to br quick.

Mgs from Kalyani is right there, and should have been ordered atleast 500 by now. No amount of budget is going to fix the cholestrol of babugiri

Also sh-15 / PCL 181 has a range 20 with conventional shells ? Seems low
 
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obiwankenobi said:
Due to this Pahalgam fiasco, I felt the need to quickly check out Pakistani artillery

I've finally come to the conclusion that they outclass us in almost all respects despite that puny defence budget.

Self propelled 155mm artillery
>400 M109A5 (upgraded to A5)
>300 SH-15 (literally cutting edge MGS)

Rocket
Fatah1/2 up (140-400km range, pretty much look like latest Norinco units)

Im really really sorry to say this, our Generals, all of them, need to be fired. Let's train new officers with US help.

They might as well be taking shits with how effective they are at planning or preparing despite $80 billion defence budget.
Click to expand...

I did an analysis on conventional military strengths of the two nations.

vampyrbladez said:
Let us breakdown the comparative advantages of India and Pakistan for a better understanding of conventional warfare capabilities.


  • Pakis have more 155mm self propelled artillery (tracked/motorized) for the next 3-4 years but after that the advantage will be overwhelmingly in favor of India.
  • 105mm artillery is not being counted since it is Battalion HQ level artillery support and we are considerig Division HQ artillery instead.
The following is as of 2024.
  • Towed Artillery 🇵🇰 :
- M198 (148) 155mm : Range of ~22 Km
- M114 (144) 155mm : Range of ~ 14.6 Km
- Type 59-1 (410) 130mm : Range of 27.5-35 Km
- Type 86 (80) 122mm : Range of ~15 Km
- Type 54-1 (490) 122mm : Range of ~11.8 Km

Total : 155mm (292) + 130mm (410) + 122mm (570) = 992
  • Towed Artillery 🇮🇳 :
- M777 (145) 155mm : Range of ~30-40 Km
- Haubits Bofors FH77 B02 (200) 155mm : Range of ~24 Km
- Dhanush (24+) 155mm : Range of ~42 Km
- Soltam M-46 (180) 155mm : Range of ~39 Km
- Sharang M-46 (26+) : Range of ~39 Km
- M-46 (1000) 130mm : Range of ~27.5-35 Km

Total : 155mm (575) + 130mm (1000) = 1575

Comments : In terms of 155mm towed artillery India is leading here marginally. In terms of 130mm towed artillery the advantage is decisive. Advantage 🇮🇳

  • Self-propelled Artillery 🇵🇰 :
- M109A2/L/A5 (438) 155mm : Range of ~18.1-23.5 km
- PL-15 (164) 155mm : Range of ~23.5-50 km

Total : 155mm (438) + 155mm (164) = 602
  • Self-propelled Artillery 🇮🇳 :
- K9 Vajra-T (100) 155mm : Range of 38 Km

Total : 155mm (100)

Comments : In terms of 155mm self propelled artillery Pakistan has a decisive advantage. Advantage 🇵🇰
  • Rocket Artillery 🇵🇰 :
- A-100E (450+) 300mm : Range of ~120 Km
- PHL-81 "Azar" (52+) 122mm : Range of ~40 Km
- Gazab/BM-21 Grad (100 ?) : Range of ~40 Km

Fatah 1/2 numbers have not been disclosed since their induction in 2024 and are possibly used for tactical strikes like the Iskander and Kinzhal as used by the Russians in Ukraine or the HIMARS by the Ukrainians.

Total : 300mm (450) + 122mm (152) = 602
  • Rocket Artillery 🇮🇳 :
- Pinaka MRBL (108+) 214mm : Range of 37.5 km to 75 km/ 90 Km
- BM-21 Grad (150) 122mm : Range of ~40 Km
- Smerch 9K58 MBRL (42) 300mm : Range of 90 Km

Pralay (370+) and BrahMos (360+) missiles are to be used by the Indian Army in the same way as the HIMARS and Iskandar as a tactical weapon.

Total : 300mm (42) + 214mm (108) + 122mm (150) = 300

Comments : In terms of 300mm rocket artillery Pakistan has a decisive advantage. In terms of 214mm rocket artillery India has a major advantage due to guided munitions in the HIMARS class. In terms of 122mm rocket artillery India and Pakistan are matched. Inconclusive.

  • In the next 3-4 years deliveries of 307 155mm ATAGS (100+ guns/year production)
  • In the next 2 years deliveries of the 100 K9 SPG will be completed and another 100 will be ordered which will likely be delivered before 2030
  • By 2027-28 orders for the 114 Dhanush and 300 Sharang will have been completed. Sharang may see additional orders.
  • 400+ TGS likely by 2030.
  • MGS production to start before 2030.
  • 6 additional Pinaka regiments by 2028 with another 12 well underway by early 2030s.
Conclusion : India has the obvious edge in terms of conventional artillery both quantitively and qualitatively in comparison to Pakistan. By 2030 this will become an overwhelming advantage in favor for India.



You can refer to the following post of mine for a quick comparison between the infantry of the two armies.






The following is as of 2024.
  • 2nd Generation Tanks/T-55 Class 🇵🇰
- Type 85 (268)
- HIT Al Zarrar (500)
  • 3rd Generation Tank/ T-72/T-80 Class 🇵🇰
- T-80UD (320)
- HIT Al Khalid (300)
- HIT Al Khalid I (110+)
  • 3rd+ Generation Tank/ T-90/Leopard II Class 🇵🇰
- VT-4/ Haider (119)

Total : 2nd (768) + 3rd (730) + 3rd+ (119) = 1617

  • 3rd Generation Tank/ T-72/T-80 Class 🇮🇳
- T-72 Ajeya Mk2 (1400)
- T72M1 (1018 ?)
  • 3rd+ Generation Tank/ T-90/Leopard II Class 🇮🇳
- Arjun MK1 (118)
- Arjun MK1A (2)
- T 90 (~1350)

Total : 3rd (2418) + 3rd+ (1470) = 3888

Conclusion : India has an overwhelming advantage and thus armor and mechanized units form the core part of our 'Cold Start' strategy and has spurred the development of Pakistani tactical short range (300-500 Km) nuclear weapons platforms. Post the operationalization of the DATRAN 1500 engines for the Arjun MK1A and the delivery of the remaining T-90 Bhishma MK3, this advantage will grow even further.

In terms of FPVs and loitering munitions, thanks to the private sector, the Indian Army has a massive advantage to the point where even China had to put cope cages on all tanks in the Tibet sector.



I will just put it at this, the IAF of 2025 is vastly better equipped (Rafale, S400, MRSAM, QRSAM, Astra MK 1/2, SDR, Akashteer, SDM, ALCMs) than the IAF of 2019.

Advanced ground based radar (Voronezh radar) installations, additional Netra Mk 1 and upcoming Netra MK2. More proliferation of EW systems and upgrades to Su 30 MKI (Virupaksha GaN radars) and 12+ more on order (deliveries starting 2027) and Tejas MK1A (83+97) deliveries starting this month (April 2025) are all great things to look forward to.

LCH is now on (156) so no more piecemeal purchases of gold plated Apaches.

Given how bullish HAL appears about the Dhruv, I guess it will be allowed to fly again. Not sure if the 'fix' is finally in.

PAF has around 18 F 16 BLK 52 and 20-30 J 10CE that are it's mainstay. Everything else is open season.
Click to expand...
 
vampyrbladez said:
I did an analysis on conventional military strengths of the two nations.
Click to expand...
Can we say 8-9 atags will arrive this month given capacity of 100 per year according to contract or the first few deliveries will take time? Every few no.s matter now
 
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Why can't it be brought under emergency procurement from Indian manufacturers now . Give kalyani a order of 200 of the self propelled one and request Armenia to permit him to give the present stock to us. Or does the induction takes a lot of time ?
 
truthsoldier said:
Can we say 8-9 atags will arrive this month given capacity of 100 per year according to contract or the first few deliveries will take time? Every few no.s matter now
Click to expand...
Orders were placed in March 2025. In 6 months we can atleast expect the same. Post delivery, user verification trials take place at unit level.
 
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