Indian Culture and society

[SKC]

View: https://x.com/ajeetbharti/status/1890304322241712223

English translation:

I have come to watch 'Chhava'. Before the intermission, there is a major problem in the film - showing Sambhaji and the Maratha Empire as secular.

One dialogue of Sambhaji is something like this – Our war is not against any religion, we respect every religion.​

​

In one scene, the entire city is burnt down, Sambhaji's soldiers are seen shooting arrows and setting it on fire. When Aurangzeb arrives there, a mosque is seen shining white in the burnt city.

I don't know what is the problem with these people that they cannot make a film without nonsense. Full review in the evening.​

 

[Azaad]

View: https://youtu.be/l8lb8imaylc?si=sWvrdpCwWmd0yeIZ


View: https://youtu.be/5sRXIhwRLKc?si=7WREDA_DFzI8GnSO


View: https://youtu.be/X4Esgenhln8?si=gZrTKKdar5IJK5Ac


View: https://youtu.be/HsOvsn20SdI?si=gsh9rID9IdO5YVMI


View: https://youtu.be/P-aNwrwfdGA?si=wb8hGrb2uml2a10t

This series of mini documentaries ( each episode is around 7-8 min long which I've linked in the order of its uploading ) studies the issue of why didn't Muslims develop an entrepreneurial class or make good entrepreneurs themselves & lays the blame exclusively at the door of the British.

Apparently the British laid down the law on a strict reading of Muslim inheritance laws as per the Sharia'h & Quran ( which even the most Islamist emperors in Delhi didn't bother too much about ) , in much the same way they screwed up Hinduism especially the caste system by codification of laws as per the Dharmashastras etc preventing lateral & upward movement among the various jatis in the process ensuring rigidity & atrophy .

If you're wondering what about the Ismailis & Dawoodi Bohras there was an exception made for them . See the series to find out what it was & the reason they thrived & prospered.

Coming back to the muslims , it's sweet revenge I say for what they subjected us to during their rule . This was how the British implemented their version of jizia or a discriminatory move , though it was wholly unintended creating unintentional consequences for the community at large.

Also reminds me why our bureaucracy is the way it is & why after a glorious past , British bureaucracy is now leading their nation up sh!t creek without a paddle.

View: https://youtu.be/3GLcjKQ202k?si=tKwS6ySVzFOrZKCe

The story of how the British helped create the institution of the Aga Khan ( the position as such was created by the Qajar Sultans of Iran ) enrich him & how successive Aga Helped the British in a mutually beneficial relationship.

In those days & centuries preceding it , all destitute Muslims of some or zero standing came to India which revived their fortunes. Naseeruddin Shah's ancestors had more or less the same background (of being beneficiaries of British munificence in another mutually beneficial relationship ).Been true for the whole of last millenium. That's how steep our fall was.

The Aga Khans are Nizari Isma'ili Shia Muslims or as some one aptly described them as a sub sect of a sub sect of a sect of Islam. The grand father of the Aga Khan who just passed away was a key figure in the Muslim League holding high office in it during their agitation for a separate state.

Do also note Jinnahbhai was a Khoja or Nizari Isma'ili . You may be interested @ezsasa

 

[bablu666]

And replace them with what? All Muh Progressive countries have that Sunshine schools because their upliftment is filled with colonial exploitation, which country that is developed without colonial exploitation doesn't have ruthless schooling? Japan, China, Korea, Taiwan, HongKong, Singapore all have brutal schooling. I mean look at those joke of a government schools in India.

Before advocating for ban this and that- what's the alternative?

Complete ban on dummy schools, inclusion of sports in education(not just as an optional subject in 11&12 which even the teachers don't take seriously), inclusion of music in proper standardised way.

Should have multiple ways to get into top IITs, ex - International olympiad medallists, and significant research contribution, etc.

If you want to copy Japan, China, Korea, then build schools like them.
Their ruthless schooling is much better and fun than the zombies we are creating.

 

[johny_baba]

Do also note Jinnahbhai was a Khoja or Nizari Isma'ili

Well the word Jinnah is actually a lohana surname here pronounced JHee-Naa, upper cased syllables are pronounced hard, if you can read it it's this - ઝીણા

their origins are in hindu lohanas, in fact our family kiranewala that's been supplying us groceries and all is also a ઝીણા, and we jokingly used to pull his leg asking him if he's related to the so called Father of the Pakistan

Muhammad Ali Jinnahbhai's story is typical...caste issues, his dada was a dhandho guy whose dandho failed so he ventured into fisheries and irked his jaat bhais, and got excommunicated, as Lohanas are mostly vegetarian folks, he was later approached by some Khoja saint whatever and turned to that faith

Now i'd like to inform that, these Baniya-to-Muhammedian castes like Vohra, Memon, Khojas used to observe both Hindu and Muslim traditions, some of them still do, and due to that, most Sunni and Shia muslims don't consider them (fully) muslims

coming to Muhammad Ali Jinnahbhai's father, he was also a dhandho guy in Karachi, had some success and some failures but it was him who decided to cut threads with their hindu lineage and enrolled his sons including Muhammad Ali Jinnahbhai to madrassa, to islamise them properly - you can say Muhammad Ali JInnahbhai moved further towards contemporary islam from being just a Khoja...and rest is history...

Though the Muhammad Ali Jinnahbhai's family tried to portray themselves as Sunni Muslims at very late stage, most muslims considered them as Shias over some reasons, Jinnahbhai himself was indulging in lots of 'haram' activities like consuming alcohol and pork

 

[Azaad]

Well the word Jinnah is actually a lohana surname here pronounced JHee-Naa, upper cased syllables are pronounced hard, if you can read it it's this - ઝીણા

their origins are in hindu lohanas, in fact our family kiranewala that's been supplying us groceries and all is also a ઝીણા, and we jokingly used to pull his leg asking him if he's related to the so called Father of the Pakistan

Muhammad Ali Jinnahbhai's story is typical...caste issues, his dada was a dhandho guy whose dandho failed so he ventured into fisheries and irked his jaat bhais, and got excommunicated, as Lohanas are mostly vegetarian folks, he was later approached by some Khoja saint whatever and turned to that faith

Now i'd like to inform that, these Baniya-to-Muhammedian castes like Vohra, Memon, Khojas used to observe both Hindu and Muslim traditions, some of them still do, and due to that, most Sunni and Shia muslims don't consider them (fully) muslims

coming to Muhammad Ali Jinnahbhai's father, he was also a dhandho guy in Karachi, had some success and some failures but it was him who decided to cut threads with their hindu lineage and enrolled his sons including Muhammad Ali Jinnahbhai to madrassa, to islamise them properly - you can say Muhammad Ali JInnahbhai moved further towards contemporary islam from being just a Khoja...and rest is history...

Though the Muhammad Ali Jinnahbhai's family tried to portray themselves as Sunni Muslims at very late stage, most muslims considered them as Shias over some reasons, Jinnahbhai himself was indulging in lots of 'haram' activities like consuming alcohol and pork

More interesting point is who makes for better businessmen ? Lohanas or Modh Baniyas ? The latter turned out to be a real suss to our detriment , something we're paying a price for till date .

 

[johny_baba]

More interesting point is who makes for better businessmen ? Lohanas or Modh Baniyas ? The latter turned out to be a team suss to our detriment , something we're paying a price for till date .

well it's hard to answer, i've been living among all kinds of baniya castes here like Modh and Jain Baniyas, Lohanas, Sindhi Lohanas, Khatris (mostly Sindhi variety, ones with surname 'Bhatia') and Soni (Goldsmiths)...
they all are respectively successful in some fields - like here most bakeries are run by Sindhi Lohanas, Soni are goldsmiths obviously but some do diamond dhandho (which is struggling nowadays over reasons), then Lohanas and Baniyas are into wholesale and retail dhandhos of grains-oils-groceries and stuff, overall keeping a grip over bazaar

what i've observed in kathiyawad side of market with these mercantile communities is once a family makes it big enough, they just move towards conquering bigger markets in metro cities like ahmedabad, surat, mumbai - making space for their jaat bhais here to take over local market from beginning so market dynamics change a lot here

population wise, lohanas seem most prominent, followed by baniyas

as for patels, former land owner community that's enterprising every where, so it depends on regions and other factors, but yeah extremely closely knit and successful

a kind of...side effect that i've observed among mercantile communities who make a stable living here, is, matrimonial issues not in sense they have broken families but youth among them have extremely choosey or picky mind over selecting a spouse, their girls are also eloping with...lower strata boys sometimes while boys have to resort to do 'bride shopping', in sense of finding a wife from outer state poor family girls who're willing to get their girls settled down - my own lohana neighbour with three sons, two of their sons had to get wives from madhya pradesh and maharashtra rural side, both those bhabhis belonging to aadivasi sides , and other lohana neighbour, their son is a successful chartered accountant under some rich parsee seth in mumbai, minting money in multiple digits, and yet his jaati girls are demanding unobtainable things

so yeah

 

[Azaad]

well it's hard to answer, i've been living among all kinds of baniya castes here like Modh and Jain Baniyas, Lohanas, Sindhi Lohanas, Khatris (mostly Sindhi variety, ones with surname 'Bhatia') and Soni (Goldsmiths)...
they all are respectively successful in some fields - like here most bakeries are run by Sindhi Lohanas, Soni are goldsmiths obviously but some do diamond dhandho (which is struggling nowadays over reasons), then Lohanas and Baniyas are into wholesale and retail dhandhos of grains-oils-groceries and stuff, overall keeping a grip over bazaar

what i've observed in kathiyawad side of market with these mercantile communities is once a family makes it big enough, they just move towards conquering bigger markets in metro cities like ahmedabad, surat, mumbai - making space for their jaat bhais here to take over local market from beginning so market dynamics change a lot here

population wise, lohanas seem most prominent, followed by baniyas

as for patels, former land owner community that's enterprising every where, so it depends on regions and other factors, but yeah extremely closely knit and successful

a kind of...side effect that i've observed among mercantile communities who make a stable living here, is, matrimonial issues not in sense they have broken families but youth among them have extremely choosey or picky mind over selecting a spouse, their girls are also eloping with...lower strata boys sometimes while boys have to resort to do 'bride shopping', in sense of finding a wife from outer state poor family girls who're willing to get their girls settled down - my own lohana neighbour with three sons, two of their sons had to get wives from madhya pradesh and maharashtra rural side, both those bhabhis belonging to aadivasi sides , and other lohana neighbour, their son is a successful chartered accountant under some rich parsee seth in mumbai, minting money in multiple digits, and yet his jaati girls are demanding unobtainable things

so yeah

Thanks for the insight. My point was more rhetorical though. Jinnahbhai vs MKG ! Lohana vs Modh Baniya ?