Indian Economy

[eastern_bhartiya]

PS: Yes, i know India-Pakistan never had FTA agreement, though Pakistan did have favoured nation status (!!!!!!) in trade in early 2000s before 26/11.
Yet, i use them for this FTA argument, because Pakistan is a bordering nation and bordering nations have a trade advantage over far away nations, simply due to accessibility: if India and pakistan trade, we can have local paki farmer come up to border and sell potatoes if he or she so chooses to. A brit or a canadian cant do that.
So think how hard it was India to shut down 'jihad money via trade' from Pakistan without stopping trading with pakistan completely, despite Pakistan not having FTA with India. No one does ' send wire transfer of 10K to Osama Bin Laden at Bank of Afghanistan, let me get u account number,routing number, etc etc' anymore. thats 80s model of mujahideen funding.

You fund jihad in two ways : via illegal drug money + jihad money via trade by finding a jihadi entity with a company and buying stuff from them at 200% the market value. And this is EXTREMELY hard to track for govt or third party without monitoring each and every transaction ( which no govt does or have capability to do- not even NSA has enough computing power to monitor and track every single financial transaction in real time), because this is case of 'mia biwi raazi to kya karega kaazi' - if customer is willing to overpay and stfu and seller is willing to recieve overpayment and stfu, how the hell does anyone else find out about this easily ?
They dont.
FTA makes this all easier by an order of magitude. Because now thanks to FTA, i need to fill out even less paperwork and jump through even less hoops if i am 'association of xyz in UK' who is buying flowers from Indian company xyz at 200% the market price. Without FTA, there is a layer of paperwork that you have to jump through that is one extra layer ( several layers actually when you get to it, because FTA eliminates a lot of permit paperworks for forming trade bond with foreign company) of you getting caught.

This is why jihadi funding from qatar or kuwait isnt a big deal in India.

I fear this angle from UK, because UK has the OTHER component of this covered: a very deep and labyrinthine complex financial market, where you can ping-pong your transanction through so many layers that even Vishnu would get headache trying to follow the thread of funding.

If i wanted to send millions of dollars to jihadi entity in India via this 'jihad trade money', the two things **I** would want, is be in a country with FTA with India **AND** that country must have vast and complicated financial market system so i can set up 200 shell companies and ping-poing my transaction through so many layers and types of financial assets that it becomes searching for a needle in a haystack.

There are no countries that meet this criteria better than Britain : Their native population of whites hate us more than the average white, because they carry excess colonial butthurt baggage and denial. Their muslim population arent run-of-the-mill muslims who just hate us but are focussed elsewhere ala arabs or algerians or libyans, their muslims are mostly paki and bong brits who have an extra axe to grind against India.

So from a geo-political and sociological & civilizational POV, FTA with UK is a shit deal in my eyes.

All this risk, for a market of 70 million dehati brits, whos economic metrics are the worst in the G-7 by a countrymile. That doesnt make sense to me. Mark my words, FTA with UK has potential to become BEIC 2.0 type of a mistake (not that catastrophic but similar to having a big own goal).

I do understand your concern, but I also think you're concern is misplaced. If its that easy for jihadis for set-up front companies and fund actual terrorism and parallel politics, then its not the issue of just islamists, its the issue of capacity of Indian state. If jihadis can setup front companies then so can evangelicals, so can radical woketards, so can any other group who want to push some agenda.

 

[crazywithmath]

1. UK doesn't have same purchasing power as India.
2. India doesn't have fta with Saudi or use to funnel jihad money into India easily.

Millions of rural indians don't get jobs to cater to a declining economy of 60 million people.

We have an FTA with the UAE. GoI, right now, is negotiating a BIT with the Saudis and an FTA with the GCC bloc (of which the Saudis are a member). Saudis are also heavily invested in India - possibly, way more than the UK could ever be.

PS: Yes, i know India-Pakistan never had FTA agreement, though Pakistan did have favoured nation status (!!!!!!) in trade in early 2000s before 26/11.
Yet, i use them for this FTA argument, because Pakistan is a bordering nation and bordering nations have a trade advantage over far away nations, simply due to accessibility: if India and pakistan trade, we can have local paki farmer come up to border and sell potatoes if he or she so chooses to. A brit or a canadian cant do that.
So think how hard it was India to shut down 'jihad money via trade' from Pakistan without stopping trading with pakistan completely, despite Pakistan not having FTA with India. No one does ' send wire transfer of 10K to Osama Bin Laden at Bank of Afghanistan, let me get u account number,routing number, etc etc' anymore. thats 80s model of mujahideen funding.

You fund jihad in two ways : via illegal drug money + jihad money via trade by finding a jihadi entity with a company and buying stuff from them at 200% the market value. And this is EXTREMELY hard to track for govt or third party without monitoring each and every transaction ( which no govt does or have capability to do- not even NSA has enough computing power to monitor and track every single financial transaction in real time), because this is case of 'mia biwi raazi to kya karega kaazi' - if customer is willing to overpay and stfu and seller is willing to recieve overpayment and stfu, how the hell does anyone else find out about this easily ?
They dont.
FTA makes this all easier by an order of magitude. Because now thanks to FTA, i need to fill out even less paperwork and jump through even less hoops if i am 'association of xyz in UK' who is buying flowers from Indian company xyz at 200% the market price. Without FTA, there is a layer of paperwork that you have to jump through that is one extra layer ( several layers actually when you get to it, because FTA eliminates a lot of permit paperworks for forming trade bond with foreign company) of you getting caught.

This is why jihadi funding from qatar or kuwait isnt a big deal in India.

I fear this angle from UK, because UK has the OTHER component of this covered: a very deep and labyrinthine complex financial market, where you can ping-pong your transanction through so many layers that even Vishnu would get headache trying to follow the thread of funding.
I dont fear this from Saudi or Pakis or Kuwait or Qatar because they are big fat 0 in financial market sector and they cant ping-pong their transaction through a hugely complex domestic financial stock-market+bonds sector. In fact, shady-money deal from deep financial market sectors are only to be feared from (for India) USA, UK, China and Germany ( frankfurt is 2nd biggest euro hub for finalcial sector).

If i wanted to send millions of dollars to jihadi entity in India via this 'jihad trade money', the two things **I** would want, is be in a country with FTA with India **AND** that country must have vast and complicated financial market system so i can set up 200 shell companies and ping-poing my transaction through so many layers and types of financial assets that it becomes searching for a needle in a haystack.

There are no countries that meet this criteria better than Britain : Their native population of whites hate us more than the average white, because they carry excess colonial butthurt baggage and denial. Their muslim population arent run-of-the-mill muslims who just hate us but are focussed elsewhere ala arabs or algerians or libyans, their muslims are mostly paki and bong brits who have an extra axe to grind against India.

So from a geo-political and sociological & civilizational POV, FTA with UK is a shit deal in my eyes.

All this risk, for a market of 70 million dehati brits, whos economic metrics are the worst in the G-7 by a countrymile. That doesnt make sense to me. Mark my words, FTA with UK has potential to become BEIC 2.0 type of a mistake (not that catastrophic but similar to having a big own goal).

Like here's just so many individual countries that are better for FTA with India currently and in short term/medium term future ( 0-25 years) than UK:
Japan. South Korea. Taiwan. Canada.Australia. Germany. France. Sweden. Italy. USA. Yes, the last 4 come in package deal with EU. Of this we only have Australia if i am correct. There are so much more lower hanging bigger fruits to pluck in this FTA world than UK in my eyes and this the UK knows, is why its UK persuing us so hard on this and we doing chai-biskoot over this.


Notice same govt. didnt screw around when it came to FTA with Australia ( not nearly as much).

Misplaced concerns, imo. FCRA and the NIAwallahs will do just fine - they have already cracked down pretty hard on the 'NGO's and the trusts. The pakroaches and the jihadis can try at their own peril.

Pakis have always funnelled jihad money through informal channels (through Nepal etc) - FTAs have little impact on hawala transactions.

 

[GaudaNaresh]

I do understand your concern, but I also think you're concern is misplaced. If its that easy for jihadis for set-up front companies and fund actual terrorism and parallel politics, then its not the issue of just islamists, its the issue of capacity of Indian state. If jihadis can setup front companies then so can evangelicals, so can radical woketards, so can any other group who want to push some agenda.

Correct. They all can. But this is not theory, this is called practice. In practice, you get different deal from different countries on this.

You want FTA with Germany ? You will get 80% lgbtq wokism and 20% jihadism. Same deal with France.
You want FTA with Italy ? well you will get 20% wokism, 80% catholic jesus-ism and 2000% corruption. ( dont kid yourself, italians are even more corrupt than Indians - their corruption is 1st world industrial scale).

You want FTA with UK ? you will get 80% jihadis + 20% leftism. Not a whole lot of wokism, coz UK is ground zero of 'terf island' and fighting it out in the whole Rowling crowd vs trans crowd. Go check, this isnt covered in mainstream media but this is big deal in terms of laws, legislations, court cases etc in UK currently.

If you want the entire gamut - wokism + jihadism + christianism in equal portions and at 10 times intensity than anyone else, go make FTA with Sauron...err i mean USA.

Its not the same playing field everywhere culturally or where these movements have their financial nexii.

Ofcourse, as i said, Italy and France are orders of magnitude easier to keep in check because THEIR own financial markets and institutions are not that deep. UK is a giant in this- bigger than even Germany, the hub of euro financial market, though UK may now be 2nd place post brexit, i dunno. They are in top-3/4 financial markets of the world, with only USA eclipsing them in clear-cut fashion and them being peers/in competition for 2nd-4th place with china and germany itself.

Rest ALL financial markets are an entire order of magnitude smaller in size. That is just reality of the money market and this is what the reality is:
USA is Usain Bolt
Britain is old Carl Lewis
Germany is Asafa Powell/Ben Johnson
China is Tyson Gay

then there is us and 2-3 like us who are 18 year old PT Usha.

The rest are all high-school champs lining up for the race. This is the realty of what financial markets look like in the world in 2025.

 

[GaudaNaresh]

We have an FTA with the UAE. GoI, right now, is negotiating a BIT with the Saudis and an FTA with the GCC bloc (of which the Saudis are a member). Saudis are also heavily invested in India - possibly, way more than the UK could ever be.



Misplaced concerns, imo. FCRA and the NIAwallahs will do just fine - they have already cracked down pretty hard on the 'NGO's and the trusts. The pakroaches and the jihadis can try at their own peril.

As i said, Saudis/UAE doesnt have a fearsomely powerful and labyrinthine financial market to hide the thread.
We know in 2 seconds exactly who sent money from saudi in india if we catch wind of shady shit in India. Same for UK doesnt happen. I dont think you understand know actual money is tracked and funded around the world in these things, i came across a lot of this in my own time trying TO fund things in India myself i guess, so its not surprising to find highly educated people on the theory of economics and trade and even professionals in the field have no idea about the actual reality of how this funding works.

PS: Dont worry, i wasnt trying to fund jihad in India. But in post 9/11 world and in post 26/11 world, the financial systems got a lot involved in NGO money transfer and this is one field i can safely say, i probably more as much as practically anyone in department of economics or accounting in any uni, coz i have been heavily involved with NGO funding for a long time in India, going back to the 26/11 period.

 

[eastern_bhartiya]

Correct. They all can. But this is not theory, this is called practice. In practice, you get different deal from different countries on this.

You want FTA with Germany ? You will get 80% lgbtq wokism and 20% jihadism. Same deal with France.
You want FTA with Italy ? well you will get 20% wokism, 80% catholic jesus-ism and 2000% corruption. ( dont kid yourself, italians are even more corrupt than Indians - their corruption is 1st world industrial scale).

You want FTA with UK ? you will get 80% jihadis + 20% leftism. Not a whole lot of wokism, coz UK is ground zero of 'terf island' and fighting it out in the whole Rowling crowd vs trans crowd. Go check, this isnt covered in mainstream media but this is big deal in terms of laws, legislations, court cases etc in UK currently.

If you want the entire gamut - wokism + jihadism + christianism in equal portions and at 10 times intensity than anyone else, go make FTA with Sauron...err i mean USA.

Its not the same playing field everywhere culturally or where these movements have their financial nexii.

Ofcourse, as i said, Italy and France are orders of magnitude easier to keep in check because THEIR own financial markets and institutions are not that deep. UK is a giant in this- bigger than even Germany, the hub of euro financial market, though UK may now be 2nd place post brexit, i dunno. They are in top-3/4 financial markets of the world, with only USA eclipsing them in clear-cut fashion and them being peers/in competition for 2nd-4th place with china and germany itself.

Rest ALL financial markets are an entire order of magnitude smaller in size. That is just reality of the money market and this is what the reality is:
USA is Usain Bolt
Britain is old Carl Lewis
Germany is Asafa Powell/Ben Johnson
China is Tyson Gay

then there is us and 2-3 like us who are 18 year old PT Usha.

The rest are all high-school champs lining up for the race. This is the realty of what financial markets look like in the world in 2025.

I think gormint knows that, there is no chance of a true FTA with eurotard union, their demands about "muh climate" "muh political freedom", are ridiculous. govt pushes for FTA, even with these threats cause they know we don't have much options. had farm laws 2020 gone through we could have had our agri sector opened to euros, but alas. We're in a tricky position where in one corner our exports and industry is competitive enough but in the other corner a large part of our economy is basically addicted to protectionist policies and gormint handouts.

 

[Wayfarer]

View: https://x.com/AvisharDutta/status/1908804765829497089

https://www.moneycontrol.com/technology/india-s-electronics-industry-sounds-alarm-over-increased-manufacturing-competition-from-saudi-arabia-uae-article-12984465.html

not all is rosy with trumps tariffs. Local players are already ringing alarm bells to the government about gulf countries taking away many jobs. Lenovo is already building a massive laptop plant in Saudi (2 million sq ft factory). Guess who will be working in those factories. Government needs to do whatever it takes to bridge any cost gaps, even if it means reducing power costs for industrial players to 0 for the first few years of operations.

Sounds like disinformation. The cost of labour in Saudi would still be many times that of what it's in India. Or am I missing something here?

 

[GaudaNaresh]

I think gormint knows that, there is no chance of a true FTA with eurotard union, their demands about "muh climate" "muh political freedom", are ridiculous. govt pushes for FTA, even with these threats cause they know we don't have much options. had farm laws 2020 gone through we could have had our agri sector opened to euros, but alas. We're in a tricky position where in one corner our exports and industry is competitive enough but in the other corner a large part of our economy is basically addicted to protectionist policies and gormint handouts.

This is true and while FTA wit EU looks good on paper, India should realize, it will never happen and if it does, India is gonna be ultra-screwed in EU climatology trap.

Climatology IS mainly a EU based project in the western world - it was germinated in Al Gore years in USA and its still a hot topic in USA but its home-base has long since shifted to EU and EU does some truly EU-tard things that only EU can do and smile at - like Germany spending 5 billion Euros to make the worlds cleanest coal power plant and then shutting it down in less than a decade coz muh Greta Thunburg.

People in India or even in North America dont realize how truly fascist german society is towards climate change and how they really ARE the one society who ARE willing to jack up prices of everything by 300% for muh climate and fully expect rest of the world to be like them.

And this is where i think our deal with EU will fail if we try to get down to nuts and bolts: EU will insist we do stupid shit like feed our cows boiled fortified grass with extra vitamin C or remove our subsidies.
Or if we insist on keeping 25% tarrif on euro-milk, then cows must have access to cow-scratch brush else no bueno.

I dunno why we arent chasing JAPAN - a market of 140 million who live in space age tech for our FTA partner.
japan is really the place we western dwellers go to say 'waaao' if you dont mind the india-style super dense city landscape of cramming in people like sardines.
The only difference is, Japan is India in year 3000 by the looks of it.

 

[GaudaNaresh]

Sounds like disinformation. The cost of labour in Saudi would still be many times that of what it's in India. Or am I missing something here?

On paper middle east can compete with India for manufacturing for a limited window period - aka as long as their oil lasts.
Because ME can easily remove electrical and water costs to industries via oil based subsidies. Their problem is labour price point but they are able to hit a sweet spot of targetting B+ or A- quality asian workers for 2x-4x the price of india itself. Since Saudi and ME has significantly better logistics structure from port facilities and connectivity, export becomes smoother.

These are minor advantages that dont cover the labour cost disadvantage long term, but as i said, Saudi, UAE etc are in position to create a generation of industrialism via oil subsidy and hope after a gen their brand-name and market presence can sustain them with more expensive labour in a gucchi fashion sense.

That is the 'hope' i see from ME investors in ME manufacturing sector = its predominantl showing interest to saudi & UAE for these abovementioned reasons.

 

[Wayfarer]

On paper middle east can compete with India for manufacturing for a limited window period - aka as long as their oil lasts.
Because ME can easily remove electrical and water costs to industries via oil based subsidies. Their problem is labour price point but they are able to hit a sweet spot of targetting B+ or A- quality asian workers for 2x-4x the price of india itself. Since Saudi and ME has significantly better logistics structure from port facilities and connectivity, export becomes smoother.

These are minor advantages that dont cover the labour cost disadvantage long term, but as i said, Saudi, UAE etc are in position to create a generation of industrialism via oil subsidy and hope after a gen their brand-name and market presence can sustain them with more expensive labour in a gucchi fashion sense.

That is the 'hope' i see from ME investors in ME manufacturing sector = its predominantl showing interest to saudi & UAE for these abovementioned reasons.

Could be. But I'll take any such info coming out of Lenovo or any other CCP company at this juncture with a pinch of salt.

 

[shuturmurg]

Sounds like disinformation. The cost of labour in Saudi would still be many times that of what it's in India. Or am I missing something here?

Not Saudi, but other reports I read were about Brazil and multiple other latin american countries like Colombia, where he has imposed 10% tariff.

 

[eastern_bhartiya]

Not Saudi, but other reports I read were about Brazil and multiple other latin american countries like Colombia, where he has imposed 10% tariff.

lets say we reach a deal with US, how much tariff can we expect to be decreased, best options would be to get them to exclude this particular category from tariffs.

 

[The Juggernaut]

 

[TopWatcher]

View attachment 29748
View attachment 29749

Aise he photo kheech ke engine bana de

 

[Migflug]

View: https://x.com/spectatorindex/status/1909064329095491926?t=OvgEvFg3GpuNF90PHCZeIg&s=19

Sensex by 4%

 

[Prasad]

View: https://x.com/spectatorindex/status/1909064329095491926?t=OvgEvFg3GpuNF90PHCZeIg&s=19

Sensex by 4%

good day to invest

 

[Migflug]

View: https://x.com/IndianTechGuide/status/1909093792818381063?t=YasseQqvI3uVDH8z1lr4JQ&s=19



View: https://x.com/DivaJain2/status/1909045866557485373?t=hljGtZWbe8M5qvDSqTu-xQ&s=19


View: https://x.com/spectatorindex/status/1909115526192025711?t=dK-diSCXTsfgz687Jvhk8A&s=19

 

[Aaj Ka Hero]

View attachment 29748
View attachment 29749

I don't know why but this is clearly sounding like making a "future case to do racism towards Indians at all level."

 

[concard]

To all the people who are talking about FTA with EU, UK or whoever. Here is a simple point.

What is FTA? A free trade agreement where 2 countries can trade goods and services without any tariff barriers. It is as simple as that. But when dumbfucks in UK and EU bring in terms like "political freedom", "human rights", "NGO's" etc, that's not FTA. That's outright interfering in our country's affairs through backdoor channels. Signing FTA's cannot come at the cost of our economy and sovereignty. FTA's with Korea and Japan have taught as a lesson. That is why FTA's with UK, EU, and Canada are a long drawn out process. If you look at the trade agreements we signed with Switzerland, Iceland, Norway, and Liechtenstein and also with Australia, you will see lot of protections for our domestic industry. GoI has taken into account how long it needs for our industries to become competitive before all trade barriers are lifted.

After 2 years of India-Australia trade deal, export utilisation reaches 79%

Trade utilisation of a free trade agreement (FTA) indicates the extent to which trade benefits from the agreement. It also provides insights into whether businesses are effectively leveraging the FTA or finding its concession procedures burdensome.

indianexpress.com

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/multinational-companies/council-of-states-approves-free-trade-agreement-with-india/88449702

 

[crazywithmath]

To all the people who are talking about FTA with EU, UK or whoever. Here is a simple point.

What is FTA? A free trade agreement where 2 countries can trade goods and services without any tariff barriers. It is as simple as that. But when dumbfucks in UK and EU bring in terms like "political freedom", "human rights", "NGO's" etc, that's not FTA. That's outright interfering in our country's affairs through backdoor channels. Signing FTA's cannot come at the cost of our economy and sovereignty. FTA's with Korea and Japan have taught as a lesson. That is why FTA's with UK, EU, and Canada are a long drawn out process. If you look at the trade agreements we signed with Switzerland, Iceland, Norway, and Liechtenstein and also with Australia, you will see lot of protections for our domestic industry. GoI has taken into account how long it needs for our industries to become competitive before all trade barriers are lifted.

After 2 years of India-Australia trade deal, export utilisation reaches 79%

Trade utilisation of a free trade agreement (FTA) indicates the extent to which trade benefits from the agreement. It also provides insights into whether businesses are effectively leveraging the FTA or finding its concession procedures burdensome.

indianexpress.com

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/multinational-companies/council-of-states-approves-free-trade-agreement-with-india/88449702

Bruh, UK barely has an industry. It is one nation we need not fear and yet, the negotiations are stuck because Goyal and co will not sign a deal before bagging some 'business visa quotas' for TCS/Infy coolies (who will be paid in INR, btw). Japan, Korea have competitive industries, what will the UK even export? They do not even manufacture steel.

And I am not at all worried about jihad money or whatever flowing into India - we had a bilateral investment pact with the UK up until very recently (before it got scrapped owing to the retrospective taxation thingy). Nothing happened.

 

[GaudaNaresh]

Bruh, UK barely has an industry. It is one nation we need not fear and yet, the negotiations are stuck because Goyal and co will not sign a deal before bagging some 'business visa quotas' for TCS/Infy coolies (who will be paid in INR, btw). Japan, Korea have competitive industries, what will the UK even export? They do not even manufacture steel.

it is the one nation we NEED to fear due to them offering us next to zero in economic benefits via FTA and their media and financial power and known global pedigree for terror and anti national financing.

thats one of the major reasons we are the aasha parekh and UK is the rajesh khanna trying to chase us and not the other way round.