Indian Economy

[Hitmanblood]

I always see people claiming to have issues opening and running business in India on social platforms.

However, when I see the actual business around me then I see them facing minimal issues and they are able to not only open but run it successfully.

Is this something a area specific issues. If we go by lawlessness and history then UP-Bihar should be least desirable place to open a business but The Industrial belt in Noida-GreaterNoida-Dadri-Meerut has no problem in opening new businesses.

I have heard similar experience in new Industrial towns in Banaras and Kanpur belt.

So where is this problem happening majorly.

One place I have heard has most problem is Bangaluru where the hafta collectors comes almost every week and take money from even small copier shops.​

Yes doing business in India is more challenging comapred to other capitalist countries.

This situation exists mostly because of over regulations of both center and state governments. There are rules and regulations that try to micromanage every party of business. This increases compliance costs, time and it takes away flexibility of a business to innovate or take risks.

Eg. Paytm. They were given banking licence as part of reforms in banking sector. Paytam had some accounts that didn't have proper KYC related documents. The response from RBI was to ban Paytm bank permanently. This led to thousands of crores lost to indian economy and it created a situation were other fintech companies are spooked in India.

When unelected career bureaucrats from RBI, IRS or any other agency can just undo years and years of hard work by just stroke of a pen. It does have real economic consequences. Look at situation of Vodafone India. The worst part is even elected people in gov doesn't come to rescue businesses in India. Our media mocks businesses with hostility and our general public laughs at news of closer of businesses.

This is not to say that in other contries they don't have a web of regulations. They also do. But what makes India unique is we have a very negetive mindset towards all businesses. Even idea of giving special exceptions to some critical businesses becomes major scandel in the eyes of public. Gov babus can quote any law with open interpretation to punish a businesses and once this happens no one will save your business.

Eg shutdown Sterlite Copper because of some vague environment law. Thousands became unemployed overnight, country became net exporter to net importer of copper overnight. Thousands of crores lost to Indian economy. Who came to their rescue? No one. Not center gov, not state gov, not even media. In other countries this would've become major scandal. Politicians would be running around giving special exceptions and rewriting laws to correct it. But in India nothing.

We as a society are reluctant capitalists. We have only half heartedly adpoted capitalism, we have yet to embrace capitalism in it's full glory. As long as this doesn't change we won't have true risk takers and innovators.

 

[ezsasa]

Yes doing business in India is more challenging comapred to other capitalist countries.

This situation exists mostly because of over regulations of both center and state governments. There are rules and regulations that try to micromanage every party of business. This increases compliance costs, time and it takes away flexibility of a business to innovate or take risks.

Eg. Paytm. They were given banking licence as part of reforms in banking sector. Paytam had some accounts that didn't have proper KYC related documents. The response from RBI was to ban Paytm bank permanently. This led to thousands of crores lost to indian economy and it created a situation were other fintech companies are spooked in India.

When unelected career bureaucrats from RBI, IRS or any other agency can just undo years and years of hard work by just stroke of a pen. It does have real economic consequences. Look at situation of Vodafone India. The worst part is even elected people in gov doesn't come to rescue businesses in India. Our media mocks businesses with hostility and our general public laughs at news of closer of businesses.

This is not to say that in other contries they don't have a web of regulations. They also do. But what makes India unique is we have a very negetive mindset towards all businesses. Even idea of giving special exceptions to some critical businesses becomes major scandel in the eyes of public. Gov babus can quote any law with open interpretation to punish a businesses and once this happens no one will save your business.

Eg shutdown Sterlite Copper because of some vague environment law. Thousands became unemployed overnight, country became net exporter to net importer of copper overnight. Thousands of crores lost to Indian economy. Who came to their rescue? No one. Not center gov, not state gov, not even media. In other countries this would've become major scandal. Politicians would be running around giving special exceptions and rewriting laws to correct it. But in India nothing.

We as a society are reluctant capitalists. We have only half heartedly adpoted capitalism, we have yet to embrace capitalism in it's full glory. As long as this doesn't change we won't have true risk takers and innovators.

sterlite and paytm are just recent events, if we go back a little satyam and harshad mehta also happened.
these sort of events, strengthen the compliance architecture of the system.

these events are happening in parallel to atmosphere of the day.

-paytm thing happened when national focus was on reducing/controlling NPA.
-sterlite thing happened when gormint was yet to fully recognise the concept of unrestricted warfare being imposed on the country. gormint infra projects itself were under attack from NGOs, remember no so long ago gormint had to go SC to build a road on uttarakhand. and still goes to court regularly to justify cutting of trees in delhi.
-satyam happened in the background of many corruption scandals that were coming out then, in this case hyderabad metro construction.

and allowing businesses to fail is a feature in the system, not a bug. that's the whole point of insolvency and bankruptcy code.

the way events panned out since 91, only after 2014 a PM could publicly state "making money is not a sin", that too only after a gormint with full majority had come to power .

and issue in the current system is we don't have scholarship on economic matters, majority of economic scholarship is in developmental economics, hardly any scholarship on how to make money or improve business efficiency. whatever literature that exists on improving business efficiency, for most part they are copy paste of imported concepts .which also impacts our perceptions about the economy.

-gora sahib says "ESG is important", our fellows say SIR YES SIR ESG SIR.
-gora sahib says "GENDER EQUALITY is important", our fellows say SIR YES SIR GENDER EQUALITY SIR
-gora sahib says "climate change" is important, our fellows say SIR YES SIR CLIMATE CHANGE SIR

even though it is understandable, that our fellows do these things to be on the good side of their customers. but by going overboard in implementing these things, at some point they have to realise they are giving more power to groups which do not want India and indians to prosper.

in past 10 years so many reforms happened both on economic front and gormint service delivery. there is lots of literature on "government spending" angle but very little scholarship on business angle.

so yes, our large system is yet to mature, and it may take a few decades. 25 years is not enough apparently.

 

[SKC]

Yes doing business in India is more challenging comapred to other capitalist countries.

This situation exists mostly because of over regulations of both center and state governments. There are rules and regulations that try to micromanage every party of business. This increases compliance costs, time and it takes away flexibility of a business to innovate or take risks.

Eg. Paytm. They were given banking licence as part of reforms in banking sector. Paytam had some accounts that didn't have proper KYC related documents. The response from RBI was to ban Paytm bank permanently. This led to thousands of crores lost to indian economy and it created a situation were other fintech companies are spooked in India.

When unelected career bureaucrats from RBI, IRS or any other agency can just undo years and years of hard work by just stroke of a pen. It does have real economic consequences. Look at situation of Vodafone India. The worst part is even elected people in gov doesn't come to rescue businesses in India. Our media mocks businesses with hostility and our general public laughs at news of closer of businesses.

This is not to say that in other contries they don't have a web of regulations. They also do. But what makes India unique is we have a very negetive mindset towards all businesses. Even idea of giving special exceptions to some critical businesses becomes major scandel in the eyes of public. Gov babus can quote any law with open interpretation to punish a businesses and once this happens no one will save your business.

Eg shutdown Sterlite Copper because of some vague environment law. Thousands became unemployed overnight, country became net exporter to net importer of copper overnight. Thousands of crores lost to Indian economy. Who came to their rescue? No one. Not center gov, not state gov, not even media. In other countries this would've become major scandal. Politicians would be running around giving special exceptions and rewriting laws to correct it. But in India nothing.

We as a society are reluctant capitalists. We have only half heartedly adpoted capitalism, we have yet to embrace capitalism in it's full glory. As long as this doesn't change we won't have true risk takers and innovators.

You are referring to top of the tops businesses in India. I am referring to your local business or the so called lala factories.
These are running everywhere without any issues and they know how to tackle the corrupt system.​

 

[ezsasa]

You are referring to top of the tops businesses in India. I am referring to your local business or the so called lala factories.
These are running everywhere without any issues and they know how to tackle the corrupt system.​

can we presume, this trend of amplifying complaints about business atmosphere on SM is being enabled by lack of counter factual data in popular discourse?

 

[SKC]

can we presume, this trend of amplifying complaints about business atmosphere on SM is being enabled by lack of counter factual data in popular discourse?

Totally. Almost 99% of people complaining don't back up their own claims. They usually go by - I faced issues with getting GST number. But where? when? what is the request number?​

 

[ezsasa]

Totally. Almost 99% of people complaining don't back up their own claims. They usually go by - I faced issues with getting GST number. But where? when? what is the request number?​

one good thing about India today group is that they are very transparent in their agenda and campaigns.
=====
Compliance Raj | Ending the red tapeIndia must trim the regulatory cholesterol that stifles its industry and usher in genuine ease of doing business to make Indian enterprises more competitive and capable of withstanding any trade upheaval.


View: https://x.com/IndiaToday/status/1913474945277104157

 

[crazywithmath]

The absolute state of policymaking in the burgerland. How the GoI is looking to ink a BTA with them is something I do not know. Things look more dysfuctional than fucking UPA 2 out there.

 

[Prasad]

View attachment 30951

The absolute state of policymaking in the burgerland. How the GoI is looking to ink a BTA with them is something I do not know. Things look more dysfuctional than fucking UPA 2 out there.

I don't know why we Indians need to complain.
Trump has been very good for India. I don't see Pannu making any videos any more.

Biden was almost dead, no one knew who was running the govt, millions coming into US monthly using app built by US and no one had a peep.

With Trump, he promised this shit and he is delivering on it.
Like it or not, these tariffs are the best thing to happen to US in last 30 years. What many see as dysfunction, I see as them course correcting while delivering a promise. What Trump is doing is not written in any police books to follow. Once Trump is done with this shit, then the book will be written on how the these things work.

 

[crazywithmath]

I don't know why we Indians need to complain.
Trump has been very good for India. I don't see Pannu making any videos any more.

I am not sure why we are supposed to discuss pannun on a thread dedicated to Indian economy. The upcoming global depression does not augur well for our surging exports and will likely slow our real growth down.

Biden was almost dead, no one knew who was running the govt, millions coming into US monthly using app built by US and no one had a peep.

Again, why exactly should I care about the burgerboys importing illegals?

With Trump, he promised this shit and he is delivering on it.
Like it or not, these tariffs are the best thing to happen to US in last 30 years. What many see as dysfunction, I see as them course correcting while delivering a promise. What Trump is doing is not written in any police books to follow. Once Trump is done with this shit, then the book will be written on how the these things work.

What I fail to understand is thay how is this even relevant to what I wrote. How exactly can the GoI ink a BTA with an administration that just cannot foresee the impact of its own policy and keeps flip-flopping every other day?

 

[Aaj Ka Hero]

https://swarajyamag.com/economy/indias-ppp-gdp-growth-is-this-the-most-underrated-part-of-its-economic-story

 

[Ultraman]

one good thing about India today group is that they are very transparent in their agenda and campaigns.
=====
Compliance Raj | Ending the red tapeIndia must trim the regulatory cholesterol that stifles its industry and usher in genuine ease of doing business to make Indian enterprises more competitive and capable of withstanding any trade upheaval.


View: https://x.com/IndiaToday/status/1913474945277104157

this is the gov agenda , not sure y u need to see conspiracy theories here.

actual article is good

Compliance Raj | Ending the red tape

India must trim the regulatory cholesterol that stifles its industry and usher in genuine ease of doing business to make Indian enterprises more competitive and capable of withstanding any trade upheaval

www.indiatoday.in

Chief Economic Advisor V. Anantha Nageswaran mentioned the need for deregulation and reforms in land, labour and capital to free businesses from legacy constraints and put the economy on a superfast track to meet the new global context. Union finance minister Nirmala Sitharaman picked up the thread in the budget document a day later, announcing the formation of a high-level committee chaired by cabinet secretary T.V. Somanathan, and comprising officials from the NITI Aayog and the Prime Minister’s Office. It was mandated to review all non-financial sector regulations, certifications, licences and permissions. A deregulation commission was mooted too, to work closely with compliance-heavy states. “

 

[ezsasa]

this is the gov agenda , not sure y u need to see conspiracy theories here.

actual article is good

Compliance Raj | Ending the red tape

India must trim the regulatory cholesterol that stifles its industry and usher in genuine ease of doing business to make Indian enterprises more competitive and capable of withstanding any trade upheaval

www.indiatoday.in

Chief Economic Advisor V. Anantha Nageswaran mentioned the need for deregulation and reforms in land, labour and capital to free businesses from legacy constraints and put the economy on a superfast track to meet the new global context. Union finance minister Nirmala Sitharaman picked up the thread in the budget document a day later, announcing the formation of a high-level committee chaired by cabinet secretary T.V. Somanathan, and comprising officials from the NITI Aayog and the Prime Minister’s Office. It was mandated to review all non-financial sector regulations, certifications, licences and permissions. A deregulation commission was mooted too, to work closely with compliance-heavy states. “

in this case, it so happened that just as i had written an earlier post, and clicked on the tab with twitter this tweet was readily available. hence the post.

yes it is true, CEA has been speaking about regulatory cholesterol in his economic review for a few years now.

as far as conspiracy angle is concerned, they seem to have chosen regulatory cholesterol as cover story in colour red. how confident are you that India today magazine will follow up with a positive cover story and report back to their readers on the same topic incase situation improves some years later following whatever reform measures GoI undertakes?

i am certain based on their past behaviour, they won't report back to their readers in case the situation improves with the same enthusiasm.

 

[Azaad]

I am not sure why we are supposed to discuss pannun on a thread dedicated to Indian economy. The upcoming global depression does not augur well for our surging exports and will likely slow our real growth down.



Again, why exactly should I care about the burgerboys importing illegals?



What I fail to understand is thay how is this even relevant to what I wrote. How exactly can the GoI ink a BTA with an administration that just cannot foresee the impact of its own policy and keeps flip-flopping every other day?

You actually believe all these reports emanating from the US to be true ? Weren't you around the first time Trump was in power to see how the Washington elite particularly the media including some RW ones went after Trump purely out of an imagined animus ?

I mean how does this even work ? Someone - an insider had to be leaking information to the media for them to have pin point accuracy to the extent of what's being reported .

When was the last time you saw such accurate fly on the wall reportage ? What comes across quite clearly is that this administration is playing the markets while also prosecuting their agenda & is profiting their cronies ! Of course this isn't easy to prove.

Even if proof is got , Biden has already set an unholy precedent by issuing pardons left right & centre including to those not accused or investigated for any crimes especially his own kin leaving aside his own son of whom the less said the better. With what face will the Democrats go to the people with accusations on Trump's alleged crimes & misdemeanors ?

 

[Wayfarer]

View: https://x.com/deepan_civileng/status/1913555062099489031

 

[GaudaNaresh]

View: https://x.com/deepan_civileng/status/1913555062099489031

Yeah this is like mumtaz banu asking Tata and birla to come back after she did Singur. LMAO.

 

[crazywithmath]

You actually believe all these reports emanating from the US to be true ? Weren't you around the first time Trump was in power to see how the Washington elite particularly the media including some RW ones went after Trump purely out of an imagined animus ?

NB: Everything I am going to write in this response is framed from a trade-econ point of view. Like I wrote before, whether Creepy Joe imported illegals or pardoned criminals is well beyond the scope of this thread and frankly, as an Indian, does not really concern me.

I was probably the only member to point out (back in the old forum) that a potential Trump 2.0 would be very very different from Trump 1.0 when many other folks were under the delusion that - "Trump does not really mean what he says", "He did not do crazy shit like that back in 2017-2021", "We will get a good deal because Trump is always searching for a deal" and what not.

Trump 1.0 acted like a typical normie Republican administration (with some notable flip flops here and there) because the guys calling the shots were career politicians and kept the madman in check.

Now fast forward to 2025, look at the guys who are making the calls. Have you gone through Peter Navarro's previous works? Are you aware of the kind of crazy trade policies Howard Lutnick has been advocating for over a decade now? Are you aware that some of these guys were directly handpicked by Trump's inner circle because their 'visions' aligned with that of the President (unlike his previous term, where the establishment GOP folks got to make their voices heard before any appointment were to be made)?

And it shows up in their policymaking. Trump's tariff policies, for instance, are directly copied of Navarro's works.

The President and some of his econ advisors genuinely believe that manufacturing can be brough back to the burgerland, that a lower interest rate will help them achieve that without any meaningful impact on the inflation side. Do you know which other world leader has advocated for a similar policy? Erdogan! We all know how that turned out.

Either way, again, the orange man is free to wreck havoc on the great burgerland; should not really concern us. But in an interconnected global economy, a depression in burgerland (and the world) will have devastating impact on our nascent but surging export numbers.

And above all, these guys, in all probability, are not even looking for 'a fair deal' with us - I can vouch for this because they are doing exactly what they said they would in their speeches and papers - paragraph by paragraph, word by word. So I just do not see how you can ink a BTA with these guys.

I am refraining from delving into more details because I understand that hardcore econometrics will simply bore out folks here. Do let me know if you want me to post snippets of the papers and policy ideas of Trump's advisors here.

 

[Prasad]

I am not sure why we are supposed to discuss pannun on a thread dedicated to Indian economy. The upcoming global depression does not augur well for our surging exports and will likely slow our real growth down.



Again, why exactly should I care about the burgerboys importing illegals?



What I fail to understand is thay how is this even relevant to what I wrote. How exactly can the GoI ink a BTA with an administration that just cannot foresee the impact of its own policy and keeps flip-flopping every other day?

Was not saying your analysis was wrong.
Was only adding another POV of looking at what is happening

 

[Azaad]

View: https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/1913444442314338402?s=19

Thank you Jinnahbhai, thank you Yunus bhai.

The two of you've managed what 70+ years of our own governments couldn't including the present one.

Alhamdulillah!

 

[Migflug]

View: https://x.com/SJha1618/status/1913804112015298585?t=iMXRTWN14-nMsql6XtVamw&s=19

 

[Migflug]

View: https://x.com/ShiroBarks/status/1913567064448553065?t=Wk_q7EcEZQAnBlHFHKqGBw&s=19