Indian Navy Developments & Discussions (33 Viewers)

[snakeeyes07]

This is L&T ARL system (RBU-6000). I think P17A design has the scope to add 2 VL-SRSAM or MRSAM VLS blocks behind RBU.

With P15 design, nothing can be added around RBU. Maybe 2 MRSAM VLS blocks can be squeezed in, just between SSM and existing MRSAM VLS blocks. Also there is potential space available in the ship aft section next to existing VLS blocks (2 MRSAM VLS).

I couldn't find dimensions of MRSAM VLS so not sure how it compares with VL-SRSAM one.
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May be rail which stacks the RBU rockets don't need to be in a straight line which will save space

 

[shade2]

No BMD or layered air defense, only 192/128 Barak-8s per fleet

Are Kamortas or subs not assigned to CBGs?

Yes Kamortas and the Scorpenes are also supposed to be a part of the CBG, forgot to mention them.

 

[shade2]

By the way, nobody discussed about this. This is 'Varun MKI NSUAS', a 550kg MTOW class Multi Utility Long Endurance Drone (MULE). It is a Naval Shipborne Unmanned Aerial System (NSUAS) class UAV for which Design and Development contract under iDEX was given by Navy. Original requirement for NSUAS systems remains for 40 units as per the latest RFI.


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A glimpse of the prototype development of the said system, which as of now is flying already (as per their website).

View: https://x.com/IndiannavyMedia/status/1849470183553036694

MoU between Altair Infrasec and MWfly, Italy for Collaboration in the Design and Development of Aviation Engines

www.spsshownews.com

That said, it looks eerily similar to Ukrainian RZ-500, and I won't be surprised if it's another "Self Reliance". Just like how the latest Solar industries drone is most likely to be another than own R&D.

From the ghetto looking prototype in the video t seems like they have only stolen the render of the ukrani drone, or maybe are copying it's exteriors.
Don't think a no name company can license the design because not enough paisa but kya pata

 

[FalconSlayers]

From the ghetto looking prototype in the video t seems like they have only stolen the render of the ukrani drone, or maybe are copying it's exteriors.
Don't think a no name company can license the design because not enough paisa but kya pata

It is not some no-name company, it has been there for a long time supplying to the Navy. That's why I hope only the renders look sem2sem as the model/proto does look a bit different. But I wonder how true the specifications are.



View: https://x.com/HQ_IDS_India/status/1854442404889370716?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1854442404889370716%7Ctwgr%5E2a7af495b28824ecf5a5e1cff7f63fb4421a0603%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.strategicfront.org%2Fforums%2Fthreads%2Findian-sonar-and-torpedo-developments.3791%2Fpage-7

Pune-based start-up to supply 840 anti-submarine warfare training targets to Navy

The expendable mobile training targets will be supplied in less than nine months, says COO of Altair Infrasec

www.thehindubusinessline.com

 

[shade2]

View: https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1938095842726162637

=====================================================================

A fleet-wide inspection conducted after the January 5 crash revealed that some navy and coast guard ALHs were facing the same problem --- cracks in the swashplate assembly.

HT was the first to report that a detailed analysis by the Council of Scientific and Industrial Research-National Aerospace Laboratories (CSIR-NAL), Bengaluru, pointed to a swashplate assembly failure.

The ALH underwent a design review followed by a replacement of a defective control system only in 2023-24. The helicopter has been involved in around 15 accidents during the last five years, putting its safety record in the spotlight.

HAL has instrumented two ALHs --- one each from the navy and coast guard --- to gather critical data on the performance of the helicopter’s integrated dynamic system, including the transmission system, gearbox and rotor hub, as well as test the loads some systems can withstand in different operating conditions, said one of the officials cited above, who asked not to be named.

“The data will be thoroughly analysed to determine the root cause of the problem that appears to be linked to sustained operations in a saline environment. There are no issues with the army and air force ALHs,” the official said. The navy and the coast guard together operate around 30 ALHs, designed and developed by HAL.

 

[shade2]

View: https://x.com/IN_WNC/status/1937464679158173941

More clapbacks at the Turkan, INS Tarkash could have done these photo ops with any other EU country navy in Djibouti but they decided to do it with Yavans onlee

 

[FalconSlayers]

Minesweepers... total requirement is for 12 ships as per the latest RFI.

View: https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1938179927637160082

 

[shade2]

Minesweepers... total requirement is for 12 ships as per the latest RFI.

View: https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1938179927637160082

India Revives ₹44,000-Crore Minesweeper Plan to Counter China’s Submarine Threat | India News - Times of India

India News: India to invest ₹44,000 crore in building 12 mine countermeasure vessels amid rising threats from Chinese and Pakistani submarines. Here's what's planned.

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

Article by Rajat Pandit also says the same thing.

Good luck to Admirals but getting the Govt to actually buy these.
For one in their designer RFI from 2023 they want a minehunter mothership

i.e this is a steel/metal ship( no need to get FRP hull ToT ) that chills a safe distance away and carries 3-4 types of boat drones, helidrones and ROVs to find blow up mines remotely

Problem is there is only one vendor for this ship

City-class mine countermeasures vessel - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

And that's the French, they also supply the fancy drones and other equipment.
Which will cost an arm and a leg.

Italians have such a ship in development.

So even bids will run into a single vendor situation.


Can RFP be different from RFI btw?

If so in RFP, they can go for the classic FRP hull minesweepers like the below Italian one

Lerici-class minehunter - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Don't know if they will ToT the FRP hull building technologies to our shipyards though, that was the main sticking point in the previous tender.

The Italian one here atleast can carry ROV and other smoll sea-drones that can blow up mines

Ruskals also have an FRP minesweeper class called Alexandrit.

 

[jaijaganath]

Minesweepers... total requirement is for 12 ships as per the latest RFI.

View: https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1938179927637160082

Wasn't qr-sam already cleared by dac

Heard it was waiting for CCS approval
If dac approval comes now then will they be able to sign it by end of this fiscal?

 

[FalconSlayers]

Some real cool shit.

View: https://x.com/indiannavy/status/1938222984834998516



And it's just the the leftover fuel that was burning, had no warhead.

 

[shade2]

Some real cool shit.

View: https://x.com/indiannavy/status/1938222984834998516



And it's just the the leftover fuel that was burning, had no warhead.
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These new styles of videos is good with Arnala and Tamal showing off the weapon systems installed.
It's good they show some weapons firing also.

imo they should make such videos for one ship of each class.

 

[Azaad]

Also, Navy has already purchases around 4 units of Schiebel Camcopter S-100 RUAVs. Used by a lot of Navies already, including China. This was also tested by paki navy in the past but not procured.
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There was the HAL RUAV-200 project as well initiated in 2008 (?) in collaboration with an Israeli company for the IA & IN . A replica was apparently displayed at AI-2019 & a prototype with AUW of 200 kg developed. However the final product is supposed to have an AUW of ~ 2200 kgs.

HAL RUAV-200 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Looks like IN dropped out & opted for Schiebel . No clue why the IN dropped out . Probably it was due to the lengthy gestation period in realising the product. Another example of no synergy in procurement between various arms of the armed forces.

In the event IA is seriously considering this drone for logistics operations. HAL has also since designated it as a logistics drone.

 

[Azaad]

There is another oddity where HSL is being built up as a submarine builder by MDL.

Two Indian shipbuilders to collaborate on indigenous submarine construction

Indian naval shipbuilders Mazagon Dock Shipbuilders (MDL) and Hindustan Shipyard (HSL) have entered into a memorandum of understanding (MOU) to collaborate on t

www.bairdmaritime.com

So if this isn't progressing because L&T is upset, that development wouldn't make sense.
L&T going to get ghanta anyway

I think the setup is MDL will subcontract atleast 3 German subs to HSL, MDL themselves will build the 3 additional Scorpenes and 3 German Uboots.

Anyway in the following months we will know.

There was never any scope for 2 shipyards into developing conventional submarines in India. I'd put the blame squarely on MoD for encouraging Pvt Players into this field.

No idea what prompted L&T to get into submarine building. I suspect it had more to do with the kind of precision engineering involved where apart from MDL the other DPSU shipyards lacked the necessary expertise & given the workmanship as well as the time in which the product was to be delivered both the IN & MoD decided to rope in a pvt player . Who better than L&T ?

In the meanwhile HSL Vizag was prepared for final assembly & commissioning of those N Submarines which raises the question why wasn't MDL chosen & what prompted L&T to join the program ?

Guess the MoD & IN used Saam Daam Dand Bhed to get L&T in . MDL set up wasn't disturbed as it was possibly designated the centre for mfg of conventional submarines. Further for various reasons including strategic & from the safety PoV MDL wasn't considered to mfg N submarines although they have a total of 11 lines to do so the largest in India at the moment.

So where does L&T go from here ? It functions as a glorified sub contractor for DPSU shipyards as long as the MoD persists with restricting competition between DPSU shipyards for prestigious projects & throws crumbs at L&T in the form of MPVs , OPVs etc .

L&T should take advantage of the recent initiatives by the GoI to promote civilian shipbuilding in India. Not only do they have the right credentials in terms of skilled manpower , experience , credibility & deep pockets , they can make the leap to VLCVs , ULCVs , VLCCs , ULCCs , Q-Max LNG carriers & eventually Cruise Ships courtesy all the aforementioned attributes.

They seem to be moving exactly in this direction whereas our DPSU shipyards will eventually go to seed given the way they're run both operationally & administratively by the MoD for I don't see the South Koreans or the Japanese seeking collaborations with them for these very reasons.

 

[Azaad]

India Revives ₹44,000-Crore Minesweeper Plan to Counter China’s Submarine Threat | India News - Times of India

India News: India to invest ₹44,000 crore in building 12 mine countermeasure vessels amid rising threats from Chinese and Pakistani submarines. Here's what's planned.

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

Article by Rajat Pandit also says the same thing.

Good luck to Admirals but getting the Govt to actually buy these.
For one in their designer RFI from 2023 they want a minehunter mothership

i.e this is a steel/metal ship( no need to get FRP hull ToT ) that chills a safe distance away and carries 3-4 types of boat drones, helidrones and ROVs to find blow up mines remotely

Problem is there is only one vendor for this ship

City-class mine countermeasures vessel - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

And that's the French, they also supply the fancy drones and other equipment.
Which will cost an arm and a leg.

Italians have such a ship in development.

So even bids will run into a single vendor situation.


Can RFP be different from RFI btw?

If so in RFP, they can go for the classic FRP hull minesweepers like the below Italian one

Lerici-class minehunter - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Don't know if they will ToT the FRP hull building technologies to our shipyards though, that was the main sticking point in the previous tender.

The Italian one here atleast can carry ROV and other smoll sea-drones that can blow up mines

Ruskals also have an FRP minesweeper class called Alexandrit.

There's the Norwegian German MCMV program as well. The issue is this seems to be part of a larger European initiative to develop such vessels of which Belgium Netherlands & France are part of apart from other nations.

Why then are these projects run separately I've no clue ?! Probably the design philosophy & concept is the same following which individual countries are free to pursue their own designs alone or with partner nations.

Europe Launches Third Phase of Next-Gen Minesweeping Capability

The European Defence Agency has launched the $10 million third phase of the Modular Lightweight Minesweeping Next Generation project.

thedefensepost.com

 

[liberalredditor]

qrsam deal has been signed right? so what is this dac approval thing and committee thing?

 

[shade2]

There's the Norwegian German MCMV program as well. The issue is this seems to be part of a larger European initiative to develop such vessels of which Belgium Netherlands & France are part of apart from other nations.

Why then are these projects run separately I've no clue ?! Probably the design philosophy & concept is the same following which individual countries are free to pursue their own designs alone or with partner nations.

Europe Launches Third Phase of Next-Gen Minesweeping Capability

The European Defence Agency has launched the $10 million third phase of the Modular Lightweight Minesweeping Next Generation project.

thedefensepost.com

It's this thing below, the Europoids basically have such "concepts" for defense subsystems and the partner nations produce systems by banding together

PESCO | Member States Driven

www.pesco.europa.eu

 

[shade2]

There was never any scope for 2 shipyards into developing conventional submarines in India. I'd put the blame squarely on MoD for encouraging Pvt Players into this field.

No idea what prompted L&T to get into submarine building. I suspect it had more to do with the kind of precision engineering involved where apart from MDL the other DPSU shipyards lacked the necessary expertise & given the workmanship as well as the time in which the product was to be delivered both the IN & MoD decided to rope in a pvt player . Who better than L&T ?

In the meanwhile HSL Vizag was prepared for final assembly & commissioning of those N Submarines which raises the question why wasn't MDL chosen & what prompted L&T to join the program ?

Guess the MoD & IN used Saam Daam Dand Bhed to get L&T in . MDL set up wasn't disturbed as it was possibly designated the centre for mfg of conventional submarines. Further for various reasons including strategic & from the safety PoV MDL wasn't considered to mfg N submarines although they have a total of 11 lines to do so the largest in India at the moment.

So where does L&T go from here ? It functions as a glorified sub contractor for DPSU shipyards as long as the MoD persists with restricting competition between DPSU shipyards for prestigious projects & throws crumbs at L&T in the form of MPVs , OPVs etc .

L&T should take advantage of the recent initiatives by the GoI to promote civilian shipbuilding in India. Not only do they have the right credentials in terms of skilled manpower , experience , credibility & deep pockets , they can make the leap to VLCVs , ULCVs , VLCCs , ULCCs , Q-Max LNG carriers & eventually Cruise Ships courtesy all the aforementioned attributes.

They seem to be moving exactly in this direction whereas our DPSU shipyards will eventually go to seed given the way they're run both operationally & administratively by the MoD for I don't see the South Koreans or the Japanese seeking collaborations with them for these very reasons.

No, no there was, but it's MDL and HSL who are the chosen ones.

L&T meanwhile is the sarkari sock puppet, they did the whole deal with the Spaniards to not put the P75I program into the "single vendor" boogaloo, MDL und die Deutschen were always supposed to get the contract.

However assuming the current drama is true it is 100% baboons realizing that the disqualification has weakened their hand in negotiations with ze Germans.

L&T meanwhile gets a few scraps and bones from gluttonous DPSUs like GRSE( 4x Arnala ) who L1 it to the top but don't have capacity, or HSL( 2x Fleet tankers ) for the same reason among the usual OPV and special ships in exchange.

L&T should go all into commerical shipbuilding as you have said, Worst Koreans and Wapanese will not be able to take the usual PSU baboonery, any coalitions set up will end up in foreign partner quickly exiting.

As for HSL they probably want another sub builder for security reasons, WE HAZ 11 LINES IDLING SAAAR by MDL not withdstanding, it's the ideal choice since it's just a short drive away from the commodores working in SBC.

oh btw after the 2021 RFI for LPD, only two companies publically responded, one is L&T with the Spaniards, and the other is French with HSL , like in this tweet they mention "future projects like LPDs", you can find these little LPD references in their other posts also


View: https://x.com/CMD_HSL/status/1935980955006910706


L&T is the willful loser player in this sarkari fixed match

 

[karn]

There was never any scope for 2 shipyards into developing conventional submarines in India. I'd put the blame squarely on MoD for encouraging Pvt Players into this field.

No idea what prompted L&T to get into submarine building. I suspect it had more to do with the kind of precision engineering involved where apart from MDL the other DPSU shipyards lacked the necessary expertise & given the workmanship as well as the time in which the product was to be delivered both the IN & MoD decided to rope in a pvt player . Who better than L&T ?

In the meanwhile HSL Vizag was prepared for final assembly & commissioning of those N Submarines which raises the question why wasn't MDL chosen & what prompted L&T to join the program ?

Guess the MoD & IN used Saam Daam Dand Bhed to get L&T in . MDL set up wasn't disturbed as it was possibly designated the centre for mfg of conventional submarines. Further for various reasons including strategic & from the safety PoV MDL wasn't considered to mfg N submarines although they have a total of 11 lines to do so the largest in India at the moment.

So where does L&T go from here ? It functions as a glorified sub contractor for DPSU shipyards as long as the MoD persists with restricting competition between DPSU shipyards for prestigious projects & throws crumbs at L&T in the form of MPVs , OPVs etc .

L&T should take advantage of the recent initiatives by the GoI to promote civilian shipbuilding in India. Not only do they have the right credentials in terms of skilled manpower , experience , credibility & deep pockets , they can make the leap to VLCVs , ULCVs , VLCCs , ULCCs , Q-Max LNG carriers & eventually Cruise Ships courtesy all the aforementioned attributes.

They seem to be moving exactly in this direction whereas our DPSU shipyards will eventually go to seed given the way they're run both operationally & administratively by the MoD for I don't see the South Koreans or the Japanese seeking collaborations with them for these very reasons.

Its the case of the russians looking at the capabilities of the DPSU shipyards and nopeing out of there.
I disagree with you here, private shipyards that have demonstrated their competence should not be shunted out, L&T is pretty much the single vendor for nuke subs going forward they should be in the running for diesel electric subs as well .

 

[shade2]

Its the case of the russians looking at the capabilities of the DPSU shipyards and nopeing out of there.
I disagree with you here, private shipyards that have demonstrated their competence should not be shunted out, L&T is pretty much the single vendor for nuke subs going forward they should be in the running for diesel electric subs as well .

They will most likely be subcontracted to build the submarine sections from steel.
Someone like HSL can do the final assembly and equipment installation.

 

[karn]

They will most likely be subcontracted to build the submarine sections from steel.
Someone like HSL can do the final assembly and equipment installation.

THe DPSUs literally contract out entire ships which then sail to their facilities for "outfitting" . This shielding of DPSU shipyards is completely political they exist off "nominations".