Indian Economy

[Miss Firing]

Since this has major economic impact -

https://swarajyamag.com/news-brief/too-little-too-distant-india-bats-for-global-south-at-cop29-rejects-300-billion-climate-finance-package

"Too Little, Too Distant": India Bats For Global South At COP29, Rejects $300 Billion Climate Finance Package​

India rejects $300 billion COP29 climate finance deal, calls it ‘optical illusion’

India received support from Nigeria which said that the climate finance package was a “joke”. Malawi and Bolivia also lent their support to India respectively, reported PTI.

indianexpress.com

 

[FalconSlayers]

For how long will they keep planning? They need to hurry up and launch this. Countries like Thailand are getting massive FDI into this industry thanks to Japan, china and taiwan. $5 billion worth of PCB factories just this year alone. Guess which country will end up importing this thanks to FTA

The investment lure of printed circuit boards

The rapid growth of the printed circuit board (PCB) industry in Thailand has convinced the Board of Investment (BoI) a "big wave" of foreign PCB manufacturers are investing here.

www.bangkokpost.com

They won't do shit. Will continue to blabber big things and get zero done. We don't even have state governments who would like to offer own incentive packages because ladli behna and khatakhat is priority.

They were talking of expanding semiconductor PLI, it's been a more than half a year and none of that happened. No display fab approved.

"May, might, will, could"

https://www.livemint.com/news/india/govt-panel-may-approve-4-000-cr-new-pli-scheme-for-specialty-steel-next-month-11730015702782.html#:~:text=A%20top%20government%20panel%20is,know%20of%20the%20development%20said.

Their PLI for textiles and MITRA is a dud.

 

[shade2]

India's inability to make passenger aircrafts or a general heavy aviation industry will bite back in its azz in the long run.

View: https://x.com/MarioNawfal/status/1860243126079656067?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1860243126079656067%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=




China today already makes it's own strategic airlifters with domestic engines, C919 passenger aircraft among various other aircrafts. Today their private industry is mature enough to finance, deign and build own aircrafts although not on a scale as that of USA but still at number 2/3 along with Russia. Meanwhile they best we've made is a 19 seater aircraft with imported engines and still focussing on that even though we already make Do228s in same category. Indian industry today makes airframes of foreign IPR and exports them to OEMs in the west (typical outsourcing over innovation mindset).

It sucks to know we can't imagine having an operational 90 seater by the time India achieves 100 years of independence, let alone an A321 equivalent. An indigenous C17 equivalent is out of equation for next half a century. At least.

Engine manufacturing is the major bottleneck here.

Waise if some chad whether private or sarkari tries to do it we could very well have our own Embraer but even that would have imported engines and other sub-systems.

We can inshallah in the future arm-twist Airbus or Boeing to setup an assembly site here but even that will be assembly and maybe only one type of part will be made in India like the wings or something.

Without Engines it's all pointless, chindis don't want to fund Kaveri development and it's derivatives

 

[shade2]

They won't do shit. Will continue to blabber big things and get zero done. We don't even have state governments who would like to offer own incentive packages because ladli behna and khatakhat is priority.

They were talking of expanding semiconductor PLI, it's been a more than half a year and none of that happened. No display fab approved.

"May, might, will, could"

https://www.livemint.com/news/india/govt-panel-may-approve-4-000-cr-new-pli-scheme-for-specialty-steel-next-month-11730015702782.html#:~:text=A%20top%20government%20panel%20is,know%20of%20the%20development%20said.

Their PLI for textiles and MITRA is a dud.

There is the other matter of chindi-giri being done while releasing the PLI funds also.

 

[Rxbanda]

India's inability to make passenger aircrafts or a general heavy aviation industry will bite back in its azz in the long run.

View: https://x.com/MarioNawfal/status/1860243126079656067?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1860243126079656067%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=




China today already makes it's own strategic airlifters with domestic engines, C919 passenger aircraft among various other aircrafts. Today their private industry is mature enough to finance, deign and build own aircrafts although not on a scale as that of USA but still at number 2/3 along with Russia. Meanwhile they best we've made is a 19 seater aircraft with imported engines and still focussing on that even though we already make Do228s in same category. Indian industry today makes airframes of foreign IPR and exports them to OEMs in the west (typical outsourcing over innovation mindset).

It sucks to know we can't imagine having an operational 90 seater by the time India achieves 100 years of independence, let alone an A321 equivalent. An indigenous C17 equivalent is out of equation for next half a century. At least.

Are we good at any specialized manufacturing?

Since my return to India, I have purchased several instruments for my lab. All of them are imported. I look for an Indian alternative, but hardly any. Even the those available (for the low-end ones) are of inferior quality.

 

[TopWatcher]

Are we good at any specialized manufacturing?

Since my return to India, I have purchased several instruments for my lab. All of them are imported. I look for an Indian alternative, but hardly any. Even the those available (for the low-end ones) are of inferior quality.

That's why startup should be supported. High end area where actually we lacking.

I think we will reach, current govt doing right thing.

 

[randombully]

Are we good at any specialized manufacturing?

Since my return to India, I have purchased several instruments for my lab. All of them are imported. I look for an Indian alternative, but hardly any. Even the those available (for the low-end ones) are of inferior quality.

Depends on the field.

 

[bakofbakchod]

Are we good at any specialized manufacturing?

Since my return to India, I have purchased several instruments for my lab. All of them are imported. I look for an Indian alternative, but hardly any. Even the those available (for the low-end ones) are of inferior quality.

we are not. infact there was a massive outcry over Modi government's move to curtail imports of medical devices a year back. Dozens of labs crying over being forced to purchase terrible quality local products (or those rebadged at 3x the cost). This is an industry that requires years of research, continous product iteration, and industrial-academia ecosystem (plus generous funding from local govts and banks). None of this happens in India. There might be 1 or 2 outliers, but as a whole, India has a long way to even crawl in specialized manufacturing (at least for machinery and equipments)

 

[crazywithmath]

Their PLI for textiles and MITRA is a dud.

Bruh! Textiles are on steroids - literally! Double digit growth in RMG (between April and October, 2024), MMF is decent too. MITRA is a long term project - a few of them are getting developed rn, the rest would follow suit.

@haldilal

Updates from the Amravati park?

 

[nongaddarliberal]

thnx...but in case of depreciation, there r many countries who depreciate their currency in insane amount of US dollars. like as:-
1 dollar = 15648.30 indonesian rupiah.
1 dollar = 1394.04 korean won.
1 dollar = 152.42 japanese yen.
1 dollar = 84.36 indian rupee.
compare to these countries dollar depreciation, we r nowhere....so why its effecting us, but not that much to these countries?????

Both Korea and Japan have trade surpluses, hence a dollar surplus. They choose exactly when and how much their currency depreciates to benefit their own export competitiveness.

India has a trade deficit so has to rely on remittances and FDI to balance out the gap in dollar reserves. These two avenues are not reliable in terms of volume, so we don't have much control over the value of our currency. Recently, remittances have shown significant growth and is the one thing protecting India from massive currency depreciation, hence GOI's short sighted strategy of trying to push as many Indians abroad as possible into as many countries as possible. We are the only major economy that insists on visas for our workers to other countries in trade negotiations.

Don't know much about Indonesia.

 

[hurrians]

2013

French Oil and Gas Company, Total, S.A., Charged in the United States and France in Connection with an International Bribery Scheme

Total, S.A., a French oil and gas company that trades on the New York Stock Exchange, has agreed to pay a $245.2 million monetary penalty to resolve charges related to violations of the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act (FCPA) in connection with illegal payments made through third parties to a...

www.justice.gov

"Total, S.A., a French oil and gas company that trades on the New York Stock Exchange, has agreed to pay a $245.2 million monetary penalty to resolve charges related to violations of the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act (FCPA) in connection with illegal payments made through third parties to a government official in Iran to obtain valuable oil and gas concessions"


2024

https://www.reuters.com/markets/rates-bonds/adani-bonds-hit-one-year-low-investors-weigh-us-bribery-allegations-2024-11-25/

"France's TotalEnergies, which has a 20% stake in Adani Green Energy Ltd (ADNA.NS), and several other joint ventures with Adani companies, said on Monday that it will freeze further payments into the group."

These are foreign and Indian baniyas no need to think more than that.

.there is no deep state angle
. everyone should have accountability
.most of the funds are public fund - Indian banks/market or foreign investors
. foreign investors/banks tend to fund those that they believe would have more success in govt support

FOREIGN investors too are to be blamed for favouring select few. No Indian company should be allowed to monopolise/cartelise or become too big or VIP.

 

[hurrians]

A make in India success story without govt intervention

Reasons -research ,quality, branding, innovation


"Entrepreneurs have figured out that conditions in India are actually good for making world-class spirits. Surinder Kumar says in the northern plains of India, where Indri is matured, temperatures oscillate between 0 degrees Celsius in winter and 50 degrees Celsius in summer, with just two months of rain and 10 months of dry weather. This extreme temperature difference makes the pores of the wood open up and contract exponentially, making the interaction between wood and the whisky much more pronounced, thereby imparting far more flavour to the liquid in a short period. “In maturation, you have to apply the rule of three, that is one year in India is equal to three years in Scotland,” he told Forbes India."
"However, the success of Indian spirits holds a larger lesson. First, in our quest to be a product nation, we must remember that these are equally globally recognised and awarded products made in India. Moreover, not only are exports booming but overseas spirits majors are trying to replicate the Indian style."
"Moreover, the success of these brands also reflects the strength of R&D in India’s spirits industry. You can’t be creating strong brands like these unless you have good R&D here, in Haryana or Goa. Remember R&D is a holy grail of sorts for India’s manufacturing industry.

Surrinder Kumar studied food technology at the Central Food Technological Research Institute (CFTRI) in Mysuru which is widely recognised as a premier institution for food technology in Southeast Asia. In another interview, he talked of how he joined a company called Central Distilleries, now part of United Spirits, as part of a campus interview. He also said the CFTRI gave him an extensive knowledge base and a range of skills in beverage production."

Success Of Indian Spirits Holds A Larger Lesson For ‘Make In India’

Indian spirits like Amrut, Indri, and Hapusa are stealing the spotlight at bars, thriving and pushing out foreign brands.

www.thecore.in

 

[Miss Firing]

China’s Steel Dump: Could It Undermine India’s Ambitions?​

https://swarajyamag.com/economy/chinas-steel-dump-could-it-undermine-indias-ambitions

 

[sameer]

Engine manufacturing is the major bottleneck here.

Waise if some chad whether private or sarkari tries to do it we could very well have our own Embraer but even that would have imported engines and other sub-systems.

We can inshallah in the future arm-twist Airbus or Boeing to setup an assembly site here but even that will be assembly and maybe only one type of part will be made in India like the wings or something.

Without Engines it's all pointless, chindis don't want to fund Kaveri development and it's derivatives

Even Cheena can't manufacture passenger aircraft engines. COMAC uses CFM leap engines in their planes.

But the biggest thing is do we even have a captive market? Cheena can force its carriers to buy Comac planes and Russi has no choice but to buy atmanirbhar because of sanctions.

Either way, Our dhandhos struggle to do basic R&D, expecting them to manufacture passenger aircraft is out of question. As for our sarkari PSU's, the less said the better.

Best solution is to do some tie up/JV with Embraer for manufacturing narrow body planes and learn the craft.

 

[hurrians]

Even Cheena can't manufacture passenger aircraft engines. COMAC uses CFM leap engines in their planes.

But the biggest thing is do we even have a captive market? Cheena can force its carriers to buy Comac planes and Russi has no choice but to buy atmanirbhar because of sanctions.

Either way, Our dhandhos struggle to do basic R&D, expecting them to manufacture passenger aircraft is out of question. As for our sarkari PSU's, the less said the better.

Best solution is to do some tie up/JV with Embraer for manufacturing narrow body planes and learn the craft.

Big corporates aka Banias should be compelled legally to disclose yearly spending on r&d as a percentage of marketing spending.

Naming and shaming is the only feasible option or else our corporates should imbibe the concept of r&d, quality, safety, documentation ( but they won't ,theywill only create a smokescreen of doing that and continue with giri)

 

[RedPhantom]

1. HAL/NAL Regional Transport Aircraft (RTA) or Indian Regional Jet (IRJ)
2. NAL Saras

• These are the 2 most promising projects regarding civilian aircraft in the country. The first is the aptly named RTA-70 which is positioned to compete with ATR-70, and can have anywhere between 70-100 seats. P&W or GE were supposed to be the engine supplier but that didn't work out I think. Government had the typical "strectching legs before sitting down" attitude and asked to put jet engines in this thing (hence IRJ). NAL declined for obvious reasons. Antonov (Ukraine) was supposed to partner for engines too but we all we know that isn't happening anytime soon...

This project was fast-tracked in 2019 and permission was given in 2021 to make a 90-seat version for 2026-27 (90 seem to be the minimum seat version now).​

​

• NAL Saras is the more promising one. It had 2 prototypes (SARAS PT1 and PT2), first flew in 2004, but the second prototype (PT2) crashed in 2009 (due to engine failure), and the project was thought to be cancelled in 2016, but was revived in 2017 and funded 6000 crore in 2019 (same time as the RTA). The second prototype was also over-weight by 500 kg, but a revised design (SARAS PT1N) solved this issue. This design is production-ready from the looks of it. The original was supposed to have 19 seats but the revised has 14 seats, maybe the weight reduction of 0.9 tonnes comes from there. It also has better electronics (basically an upgrade).

This is an interesting aircraft because it has a pusher configuration. It looks quite good too. Uses P&W engines and is smaller (9-16 seats) than the RTA. Most likely will be used as an Air Ambulance or private jet. IAF may buy 60 aircraft as per Wiki, so has civillian and military applications. Competes with Dornier 228.​

​

​

 

[concard]

1. HAL/NAL Regional Transport Aircraft (RTA) or Indian Regional Jet (IRJ)
2. NAL Saras

• These are the 2 most promising projects regarding civilian aircraft in the country. The first is the aptly named RTA-70 which is positioned to compete with ATR-70, and can have anywhere between 70-100 seats. P&W or GE were supposed to be the engine supplier but that didn't work out I think. Government had the typical "strectching legs before sitting down" attitude and asked to put jet engines in this thing (hence IRJ). NAL declined for obvious reasons. Antonov (Ukraine) was supposed to partner for engines too but we all we know that isn't happening anytime soon...

This project was fast-tracked in 2019 and permission was given in 2021 to make a 90-seat version for 2026-27 (90 seem to be the minimum seat version now).​

​

• NAL Saras is the more promising one. It had 2 prototypes (SARAS PT1 and PT2), first flew in 2004, but the second prototype (PT2) crashed in 2009 (due to engine failure), and the project was thought to be cancelled in 2016, but was revived in 2017 and funded 6000 crore in 2019 (same time as the RTA). The second prototype was also over-weight by 500 kg, but a revised design (SARAS PT1N) solved this issue. This design is production-ready from the looks of it. The original was supposed to have 19 seats but the revised has 14 seats, maybe the weight reduction of 0.9 tonnes comes from there. It also has better electronics (basically an upgrade).

This is an interesting aircraft because it has a pusher configuration. It looks quite good too. Uses P&W engines and is smaller (9-16 seats) than the RTA. Most likely will be used as an Air Ambulance or private jet. IAF may buy 60 aircraft as per Wiki, so has civillian and military applications. Competes with Dornier 228.​

​

View attachment 16528​

So we are still yet to make Turbo prop Engines? Maybe we should focus on that. Build something similar to C-130 or A-400 type aircraft first, then think about building Turbo Jet aircrafts. We will have a full blown ecosystem in place before we try to build those bigger aircrafts.

 

[FalconSlayers]

1. HAL/NAL Regional Transport Aircraft (RTA) or Indian Regional Jet (IRJ)
2. NAL Saras

• These are the 2 most promising projects regarding civilian aircraft in the country. The first is the aptly named RTA-70 which is positioned to compete with ATR-70, and can have anywhere between 70-100 seats. P&W or GE were supposed to be the engine supplier but that didn't work out I think. Government had the typical "strectching legs before sitting down" attitude and asked to put jet engines in this thing (hence IRJ). NAL declined for obvious reasons. Antonov (Ukraine) was supposed to partner for engines too but we all we know that isn't happening anytime soon...

This project was fast-tracked in 2019 and permission was given in 2021 to make a 90-seat version for 2026-27 (90 seem to be the minimum seat version now).​

​

• NAL Saras is the more promising one. It had 2 prototypes (SARAS PT1 and PT2), first flew in 2004, but the second prototype (PT2) crashed in 2009 (due to engine failure), and the project was thought to be cancelled in 2016, but was revived in 2017 and funded 6000 crore in 2019 (same time as the RTA). The second prototype was also over-weight by 500 kg, but a revised design (SARAS PT1N) solved this issue. This design is production-ready from the looks of it. The original was supposed to have 19 seats but the revised has 14 seats, maybe the weight reduction of 0.9 tonnes comes from there. It also has better electronics (basically an upgrade).

This is an interesting aircraft because it has a pusher configuration. It looks quite good too. Uses P&W engines and is smaller (9-16 seats) than the RTA. Most likely will be used as an Air Ambulance or private jet. IAF may buy 60 aircraft as per Wiki, so has civillian and military applications. Competes with Dornier 228.​

​

View attachment 16528​

Waste of resources imo. We already make Do228 of same category.

 

[FalconSlayers]

Big corporates aka Banias should be compelled legally to disclose yearly spending on r&d as a percentage of marketing spending.

Naming and shaming is the only feasible option or else our corporates should imbibe the concept of r&d, quality, safety, documentation ( but they won't ,theywill only create a smokescreen of doing that and continue with giri)

They are traders not innovators. I mean imagine being a $16 trillion PPP economy, and you need a national programme for 19 seaters which random less heard companies in europe and US make on their own.

Imagine, TATA literally bought the IPR of this aircraft from Grob to offer "IAF". This 9 seater.




Ideally you should be expecting them to design and build their own stuff to compete in international markets, here they waste money on buying rights of something they 100% won't even assemble here.

 

[Anants]

So we are still yet to make Turbo prop Engines? Maybe we should focus on that. Build something similar to C-130 or A-400 type aircraft first, then think about building Turbo Jet aircrafts. We will have a full blown ecosystem in place before we try to build those bigger aircrafts.

What is needed is spin off turbo prop engines from Kaveri Engine Core. Planes are build around engines, Establish base lines home grown engines and design planes around them as first iteration- and for first iteration forgo world class.

Afraid to experiment with human lives - go for large scaled unmanned/RPA aircraft and test your engines on them. Even think about unmanned Transport. Its time to go unorthodox