Indian Navy Developments & Discussions (16 Viewers)

[vampyrbladez]

Next Generation Missile Vessel

 

[snakeeyes07]

Next Generation Missile Vessel

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So only 4 ?

Any NASM-MR?

 

[snakeeyes07]

PN's Azmat class has 8xC802 or 6x Harbah (Babur).

Though not as powerful as but quantity has a quality of it's own. Adding 4-8 NASM-MR to NGMV will make quite it a bit of difference.

 

[randombully]

PN's Azmat class has 8xC802 or 6x Harbah (Babur).

Though not as powerful as but quantity has a quality of it's own. Adding 4-8 NASM-MR to NGMV will make quite it a bit of difference.

But why the extra quantity? What benifit will it serve?
These missile vessels are made to compliment other ships near indian coast, I.e. mainly against pakistan.

We should not blindly chase power, our purpose for power is to deter our enemies.

Pakistan need more missiles on their azmat class, as they are to go against Indian navy.
The counter to these missiles is air defense missiles not more anti ship missiles.

4 are enough.

 

[snakeeyes07]

But why the extra quantity? What benifit will it serve?
These missile vessels are made to compliment other ships near indian coast, I.e. mainly against pakistan.

We should not blindly chase power, our purpose for power is to deter our enemies.

In future, if PN inducts HHQ-9 then extra weapons can come in handy to saturate their AD (or make them expend precious interceptors) thus increasing the probability that some brahmos leaks through the net.

Or if major part of PN AD specific surface ships are already sunk then why waste brahmos on targets such as auxiliary, missile boats or OPV ships.

 

[snakeeyes07]

Given how USN has been improving Aegis system to deal with PLAN threats.

I am thinking if there is any scope for building 4 P-15C class of destroyers with Aegis replacing MF-STAR and instead of being equipped with MRSAM it has SM-2 and SM-6 (32-48 MK-41 VLS).

This will enhance IN credibility vis-a-vis PLAN until P-18s become available in the 2033-2035 window.

 

[FalconSlayers]

PN's Azmat class has 8xC802 or 6x Harbah (Babur).

Though not as powerful as but quantity has a quality of it's own. Adding 4-8 NASM-MR to NGMV will make quite it a bit of difference.

Navy's coastal missile batteries are more than enough to sink their entire paki coast guard LARPing as a "Navy".

Our Naval capabilities are to deter PLAN incursions, not pakis. Especially when their fleet suffers from maintenance issues a lot more.

 

[snakeeyes07]

But why the extra quantity? What benifit will it serve?
These missile vessels are made to compliment other ships near indian coast, I.e. mainly against pakistan.

We should not blindly chase power, our purpose for power is to deter our enemies.

Pakistan need more missiles on their azmat class, as they are to go against Indian navy.
The counter to these missiles is air defense missiles not more anti ship missiles.

4 are enough.

I don't think these are a purely defensive ship v/s Pakistan. It can be used offensively like in 1971 (especially around Kutch coast).

Vikrant CBG can provide protective cover further away from Pakistan coastline. NGMV task groups with top speed of 35 kts could sail inside PN missile range launch their missiles and disengage. This prevents exposure of CBG and other capital ships.

 

[snakeeyes07]

Navy's coastal missile batteries are more than enough to sink their entire paki coast guard LARPing as a "Navy".

Our Naval capabilities are to deter PLAN incursions, not pakis. Especially when their fleet suffers from maintenance issues a lot more.

Their navy (surface fleet in particular) will never challenge IN in Indian EEZ or around Indian coast, they will keep their fleet close to their coast/ports (like during 2019 Balakot standoff & Op Sindoor). Will use their missiles at extended ranges to defend their EEZ, Karachi and coastal installations/infra from IN.

 

[randombully]

I don't think these are a purely defensive ship v/s Pakistan. It can be used offensively like in 1971 (especially around Kutch coast).

Vikrant CBG can provide protective cover further away from Pakistan coastline. NGMV task groups with top speed of 35 kts could sail inside PN missile range launch their missiles and disengage. This prevents exposure of CBG and other capital ships.

For offense like 1971.
Indian navy will mainly rely on its aircraft fleet, ie. Mig29k and in future rafale for offensive punch near pakistan's coast.
Aircrafts are more faster and more survivable at short ranges compared to missile vessels, fighter jets can also fly low if your worried about radar horizon.
Loss of a fighter jet is cheaper compared to the loss of a missile vessel.

Our missile vessel's main role that they are being developed for is to compliment larger ships as an offensive platform, supported by radars and data of larger ships.

 

[randombully]

Given how USN has been improving Aegis system to deal with PLAN threats.

I am thinking if there is any scope for building 4 P-15C class of destroyers with Aegis replacing MF-STAR and instead of being equipped with MRSAM it has SM-2 and SM-6 (32-48 MK-41 VLS).

This will enhance IN credibility vis-a-vis PLAN until P-18s become available in the 2033-2035 window.

P15, p17 class have extra space for more missiles to be added in future

 

[snakeeyes07]

P15, p17 class have extra space for more missiles to be added in future

Will have to wait for a MLU refit and Kusha to be available for that.

 

[randombully]

Will have to wait for a MLU refit and Kusha to be available for that.

It will take till mid2030s for PLAN to get powerful enough to be able to send capable and threating surface naval force in indian ocean region that can sustain combat operations against Indian navy that far away from their home.
that's when we will need Aegis level of air defense cover along with many other capabilities.
Naval budget is all about priorities, PLAN will induct more than dozens of SSN before 2030'a so submarine threat from PLAN in Indian ocean will come before surface fleet threat, so better anti sub platforms and underwater detection network spread over Indian ocean is a much earlier priority, to be achieved before the end of this decade.

For example, LRASHM we are developing can wait till 2030s start before entering service.
But an underwater submarine detection network needs to be completed before 2030s start.

 

[liberalredditor]

But why the extra quantity? What benifit will it serve?

Plan has a huge quantity advantage, our sole enemy aint porki. We need to design and construct our ship with plan in consideration too. Or else in will end up like import air force

 

[randombully]

Plan has a huge quantity advantage, our sole enemy aint porki. We need to design and construct our ship with plan in consideration too. Or else in will end up like import air force

It's a missile vessel, doesn't have capability to operate in open oceans far away from mainland , it's custom made as a cost effective force multiplyer to be used against Pakistan.

 

[shade2]

I don't think these are a purely defensive ship v/s Pakistan. It can be used offensively like in 1971 (especially around Kutch coast).

Vikrant CBG can provide protective cover further away from Pakistan coastline. NGMV task groups with top speed of 35 kts could sail inside PN missile range launch their missiles and disengage. This prevents exposure of CBG and other capital ships.

That was only because of the Styx missiles on those missile boats.
Rest of the fleet didn't have anything equivalent afaik

Admirals had heard about Egyptians using the same missile boat to sink an Israeli destroyer and got garam over the "possibilities" .

So they bought those from the Soviet Ruskals.

These boats are not suitable for open sea because thin hulls( and ofc not enough fuel too ) or something so the Navy towed it to the Paki coast and had the boats then do the needful with their missiles

Today though is standard across the fleet so missile boats can do their job of coastal defense peacefully.

2x Vizag or 3x Talwar have more than all 6 NGMV

 

[shade2]

ITT Defense bro sperging over "stealth cupola" when the biggest L of AK630 is it being centrally directed and not autonomous.
This is aside from the 30mm cannon itself being innaccurate
Meanwhile the Korean CIWS has it's own AESA radar and EO/IR camera for autonomous targeting


View: https://x.com/AdithyaKM_/status/1944215372506575345


imo Admirals must focus on the shiny new method of CIWS going with a single barrel cannon with smart ammo, the US/UK use a Bofors L70 40mm gun like this onlee, the Germans have their 35mm oerlikon millenium gun.

However idk where will we get ToT for smart ammo, DRDO has made a timed fuze 30mm shell

 

[ArjunMK1A]

Given how USN has been improving Aegis system to deal with PLAN threats.

I am thinking if there is any scope for building 4 P-15C class of destroyers with Aegis replacing MF-STAR and instead of being equipped with MRSAM it has SM-2 and SM-6 (32-48 MK-41 VLS).

This will enhance IN credibility vis-a-vis PLAN until P-18s become available in the 2033-2035 window.

Aegis - LRTR
SM-2 - Kusha M2
SM-6 - Kusha M3

 

[snakeeyes07]

Aegis - LRTR
SM-2 - Kusha M2
SM-6 - Kusha M3

My thinking behind the post was that Kusha naval won't be available for next 3-5 years, if another class of 3-4 destroyers (iterative design of P15B) needs to be ordered soon so that it fills up the gap and keep shipyards occupied till P18s then Aegis is available now.

 

[shade2]

My thinking behind the post was that Kusha naval won't be available for next 3-5 years, if another class of 3-4 destroyers (iterative design of P15B) needs to ordered soon so that it fills up the gap and keeps shipyards occupied till P18s then Aegis is available now.

Aegis onlee for US vassals saar

Aegis Combat System - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Mk41/Aegis will also kill Kusha/LRTR.

P17B is the one that will keep the Big 2 shipyards busy, they might have more armament than p17a