Indian Navy Developments & Discussions

[Fatalis]

WOW!! Look at all that empty space!! I'm petitioning the navy to install a swimming pool in there.

Noob logic.

The extra space is reserved for the next aircraft carrier which will be built there.

 

[Bleh]

Next Generation Corvette (NCG) will receive a MF-STAR (RA) radar and 16 MRSAM. Shivalik and Talwar Class may have their Shtil-1 arm launchers replaced by Barak 8 (24-32) missiles in the future.

Disappointingly, I see no mention of VL-SRSAM or any specific SAM system for NGMV. There is a mention of the MFR-X radar for these ships which was later confirmed.

Is this the NGC?... Done this image but couldn't figure what it is. Looked like Kamorta-based to me.

 

[Fatalis]

Is this the NGC?... Done this image but couldn't figure what it is. Looked like Kamorta-based to me.
View attachment 21390

Just a concept image pitched by IAI for showcasing and advertising their MFSTAR radar.

 

[samsaptaka]

Once they get the Nuclear EMALS flat top one into production you can be sure the ~3 ramp carriers and Fujian will be progressively decommissioned and replaced by the same Nuclear EMALS class ships.

What all prep these Chinkus have to do to grab one island

Its called 'overmatch' - a term much touted by unkil and like all things copied and implemented first and maybe better by chinkas

 

[shade2]

Is this the NGC?... Done this image but couldn't figure what it is. Looked like Kamorta-based to me.
View attachment 21390

MF-STAR is the char-aina one, the one that NGC is supposedly getting is a rotating one called EL/M-2258 ALPHA

 

[shade2]

Its called 'overmatch' - a term much touted by unkil and like all things copied and implemented first and maybe better by chinkas

The Chinku overmatch meanwhile is meant to keep Unkil & Pals watching while they molest Taiwan, because if Unkil tries to play hero to save Taiwan, Chinku will make the cost in sunken ships and body bags unacceptable to the Amerimutt janta.

Now the govt of Unkil also knows this, which is why I think they will let China have Taiwan, Unkil's """"overmatch"""" is only good for 2rs dictator regimes like Saddam's Iraq, not for a peer-adversary like China which can inflict good losses on them.

Now, Of Course, there is one way that Unkil Sam can retain Taiwan and prevent China from ever grabbing it and that is by baiting the Chings to attack India, like how Russia was baited into attacking Ukraine, any victories will be Pyrrhic for the Chings, just like for the Russies in Ukraine, and will buy enough time for Unkil to park enough missiles, airbases and 2-3 CSGs in and around Taiwan to dissuade Ching from trying anything.

 

[ArjunMK1A]

i thinks we dfbians need to sit inside vls tubes so navy can expand current weapons loadout higher.

we are ready for the sacrifice

 

[vampyrbladez]

Is this the NGC?... Done this image but couldn't figure what it is. Looked like Kamorta-based to me.
View attachment 21390

That is not the prospective design for the Next Generation Corvette (NGC) but could be very close to it. The NGC is

Next Generation Corvette (Possible Configuration)​
Sensor	Range	Comments
1 x EL/M-2258 MF-STAR S-Band AESA radar	200–400 km	Primary radar, smaller version of EL/M-2248 MF-STAR
1 x 3Ts-25E Garpun-B surface search I/X-Band radar	250 km	Surface search radar, missile targetting for BrahMos
1 x HUMSA-NG (MK 2)	40 km	Primary sonar for ASW
1 x ACTAS	60 km	Towed array sonar for ASW
Weapon Suite	Range	Comments
1 × OTO Melara 76 mm Super Rapid Gun Mount	16 km	Primary gun armament, likely passed-on from P 15A/B ships with STRALES 76 mm
2 x AK-630M CIWS	5 km	Close In Weapons System, Fire Control using MF-STAR and EO sensors.
2 x OFT 12.7 mm M2 SRGM	2 km	RCWS for ship defense, can be used manually
8 x BrahMos ER	450-900 km	Primary ASuW, can be used for surface to surface and anti ship roles
16-24 Barak 8 (MRSAM)	90-100 km	Primary SAM for anti ship missile and area defense
2 x tripe 533mm Varunastra torpedo	50 km	Primary ASW weapon
1 x HAL Dhruv (or) Sea King Mk. 42B		Single helicopter for ASW role
Comments :
8 vessels to be built. Frigate sized (~3500 tons) vessel with 1 x LM2500 and 2 x Pielstick 12PA 6 STC6 Diesel engines for a range of 2800nm at 25 kn. Likely replacement for the Brahmaputra Class frigates and Kora Class corvettes.​

 

[vampyrbladez]

View: https://x.com/IndiannavyMedia/status/1877896602574037187

View attachment 21331View attachment 21332View attachment 21333View attachment 21334View attachment 21335View attachment 21336View attachment 21337

Adding some interesting observations from the video.

• 2 x triple 533mm Varunastra torpedo

• 2 x 12.7 mm OFT M2 RCWS (can be used manually)

• 4 x Kavach Decoy Launcher

• Bow weapon layout

 

[Flanker]

made this low quality edit. NGMV is the worst looking design we have came up with... or maybe the aswswc is

 

[Flanker]

That is not the prospective design for the Next Generation Corvette (NGC) but could be very close to it. The NGC is

Next Generation Corvette (Possible Configuration)​
Sensor	Range	Comments
1 x EL/M-2258 MF-STAR S-Band AESA radar	200–400 km	Primary radar, smaller version of EL/M-2248 MF-STAR
1 x 3Ts-25E Garpun-B surface search I/X-Band radar	250 km	Surface search radar, missile targetting for BrahMos
1 x HUMSA-NG (MK 2)	40 km	Primary sonar for ASW
1 x ACTAS	60 km	Towed array sonar for ASW
Weapon Suite	Range	Comments
1 × OTO Melara 76 mm Super Rapid Gun Mount	16 km	Primary gun armament, likely passed-on from P 15A/B ships with STRALES 76 mm
2 x AK-630M CIWS	5 km	Close In Weapons System, Fire Control using MF-STAR and EO sensors.
2 x OFT 12.7 mm M2 SRGM	2 km	RCWS for ship defense, can be used manually
8 x BrahMos ER	450-900 km	Primary ASuW, can be used for surface to surface and anti ship roles
16-24 Barak 8 (MRSAM)	90-100 km	Primary SAM for anti ship missile and area defense
2 x tripe 533mm Varunastra torpedo	50 km	Primary ASW weapon
1 x HAL Dhruv (or) Sea King Mk. 42B		Single helicopter for ASW role
Comments :
8 vessels to be built. Frigate sized (~3500 tons) vessel with 1 x LM2500 and 2 x Pielstick 12PA 6 STC6 Diesel engines for a range of 2800nm at 25 kn. Likely replacement for the Brahmaputra Class frigates and Kora Class corvettes.​

that design has been floating around since 2018 ish ... its not NGC just some placeholder copy of french aqutine(?)

 

[Ayan Barat]

Sorry for irritating you Mate but...

EL/M-2258 MF-STAR S-Band AESA radar

...stop calling 2258 MF-STAR. 2248 is MF-STAR, 2258 is APLHA. You confuse the heck out of me

3Ts-25E Garpun-B surface search I/X-Band radar

I don't think Garpun or APARNA will be there. Whatever it did is now being done by MF-STAR itself in targetting and for navigation we're using Scanter type radars.

Take the example of P-15s; in Alphas you've got Garpuns but in Bravos there's gone

16-24 Barak 8 (MRSAM)

I don't think they'll go with 3x 8 arrangement, who knows may be 3 is apshagun. But on a serious note it would be either 2x or 4x.

2 x tripe

• 2 x triple 533mm Varunastra torpedo

This one is not correction but I'm rather asking you to verify this because I'm not sure. I also used to assume this but now I'm doubting

So we used have the two Russian ChTA-53 quad 533mm torpedo tubes on larger ships and for smaller ships it was either one single of it or two DTA-53 twin 533mm torpedo tubes. This exact same Russian design was copied by L&T and you'd find 2x4 533mm on P-15s and 2x2 533mm on Kamortas.

Generally this triple torpedo tube arrangement is used with smaller 324mm torpedoes tubes like the US Mk-32 SVTT.

Is there any official source of this triple 533mm torpedo tube?

 

[vampyrbladez]

made this low quality edit. NGMV is the worst looking design we have came up with... or maybe the aswswc is

I tried to figure out the purpose of the NGMV and it points to a Veer Class corvette replacement with an MFR-X Band AESA radar and 4 x BrahMos missiles.



Veer Class corvette

It is likely that the NGMV will lack any static SAM system and could have manually a aimed Igla-S missile. I made a post earlier about ways to add a turret to give the vessel a fighting chance.

How feasible would it be to fit the RATEP Komar air-defence turret mount onto the Next Generation Missile Vessel (NGMV) given that it's likely armament is just :

• 4 x BrahMos ER
• 1 x 76 mm upgraded SRGM
• 2 x 30 mm AK 630 CIWS
• 2 x OFT 12.7 mm M2 Stabilized Remote Controlled Gun
• 16 x VL-SRSAM (FFBNW)

It looks like the mid section of the old design (2500 T) has been scrapped out and the new design (~1500 T) seems much smaller.

This removed the midship section for the earlier 8 x BrahMos ER and moved it to the fore using inclined launchers and displaced the VL-SRSAM.

This will at least give the ship some decent CIWS capabilities since each turret has electro-optical systems for independent targeting given that the alternative is manually aimed Igla-S missiles using Eyeball Mk 1.

Igla-S Naval launcher (old)

Komar Air Defence Turret (proposed)

https://roe.ru/eng/catalog/naval-systems/shipborne-weapons/komar-new/

Implementation on the Buyan M class corvette.

 

[vampyrbladez]

I don't think Garpun or APARNA will be there. Whatever it did is now being done by MF-STAR itself in targetting and for navigation we're using Scanter type radars.

Take the example of P-15s; in Alphas you've got Garpuns but in Bravos there's gone

This is just from wiki and sources on the net and again highly speculative.

I don't think they'll go with 3x 8 arrangement, who knows may be 3 is apshagun. But on a serious note it would be either 2x or 4x.

High likelihood of 16 Barak 8 in a 8 x 2 VLS configuration given the confirmation of MRSAM onboard these ships. There is no way Navy would give a corvette 32 Barak 8 missiles for AAW.

So we used have the two Russian ChTA-53 quad 533mm torpedo tubes on larger ships and for smaller ships it was either one single of it or two DTA-53 twin 533mm torpedo tubes. This exact same Russian design was copied by L&T and you'd find 2x4 533mm on P-15s and 2x2 533mm on Kamortas.

Generally this triple torpedo tube arrangement is used with smaller 324mm torpedoes tubes like the US Mk-32 SVTT.

Is there any official source of this triple 533mm torpedo tube?

This is from the official video released by the Indian Navy for INS Nilgiri. The Indian Navy uses 533 mm torpedos (Varunastra) primarily.

The only 324 mm torpedo in service is the Torpedo Advanced Light (Shyena) and the launcher's profile matches the photo. I think we are witnessing a 3 x 324mm torpedo in Indian Navy use for the first time.

Shyena

 

[shiphone]

first time? lol...

the P16 and P16A frigate...obviously the TAL was 'inspired' by the imported A244S

 

[Rai89]

That's some pretty harsh comment my Guy, I guess even USN doesn't consider them to be "signifincantly inferior"
VL-ASROC > 30km, approximate TOT of 10min to deliver a 50kg warhead
Varunastra > 50km, approximate TOT of 30min to deliver a 250kg warhead

You can either have a fast acting but ship disabling torpedo or a slow but keel breaking torpedo; can't have both so it's up to you.

Most submarines probably won't survive a light weight torpedo and disabling a submarine vs destroying it is almost the same thing in most engagements anyway.

For hunting enemy submarines a fast acting torpedo seems much better. Any enemy sub is going to cut wires and run anyway when they detect a torpedo launch. A VL-ASROC seems like it would have a much better chance to engage. Also heavy weight torpedoes are very large and heavy. They take up a lot of space and weight that could be used for something else.

 

[shiphone]

I think this was displayed in 2022..

 

[Ayan Barat]

Most submarines probably won't survive a light weight torpedo and disabling a submarine vs destroying it is almost the same thing in most engagements anyway.

If we're talking about submarines then warhead size becomes even more important. Torpedos are designed to engage a submarine using overpressure and cavitation so there's a fair chance that a 50kg warhead might just dent it. With five times that you significantly increase both your explosive power and also the distance up to which you can engage.

There must be some reason why almost all hunter-killer submarines are equipped with 533mm torpedo tubes despite these being extremely heavy!

Any enemy sub is going to cut wires and run anyway when they detect a torpedo launch.

And how exactly is it going to detect the torpedo launch?
The only way to detect a torpedo launch at such long distance is to switch to active SONAR and that's a suicide in itself. Torpedos have become quite enough to remain silent for so long on the hydrophones that when you finally detect one, it's already too late.
Wire, passive SONAR, INS and GNSS; none of these are going to trigger any sensor.

Also heavy weight torpedoes are very large and heavy. They take up a lot of space and weight that could be used for something else.

Now this is a very shallow take on the matter; Harpoon is way lighter than BrahMos so should be replace our BrahMos?

Things are considered heavy when they're heavier than their class average, not when the weight comes because of its capabilities. Varunastra is pretty much in line with all other 21" torpedos.