Indian Navy Developments & Discussions

[shade2]

Yeah and also the first on this thread to make everyone realise how expensive it is to field just one BrahMos and one LRASM.

I've always maintained my stand of doing something to deal with our underarmed vessels, especially by reducing the per shot cost of missiles. But never have I said from the depths of despair that we're underarmed, so let's just MLU 'all' of our Abhay class corvettes so that they can serve till the 20th Type-055 get commissioned.

You'll need new air-defence missiles, new radar for those air-defence missile, new AShMs, new radars, new electronics to support all these, new diesel engines...

So what are we planning to have? An upgraded frigate or world's first ship that's literally the Ship of Theseus!?

Arre so where am i saying this? I'm just saying what the Navy will do, they had INS Betwa fixed up and they had INS Brahmaputra also righted inspite of it being broken while fallen over, they'll repair it now.

They'd possibly repair that one submarine also that exploded and sunk but the damage was too catastrophic there I guess.

It's like the uniformed version of your average middle class Indian repair-maxxing any electronics item till it can't be repaired any more, but kya kare.

If you ask me instead of the Brahmaputra class your up-arming Saryu OPVs would be a good idea or making another new class of OPVs but as we seen, even 2 ships falling over and getting badly damaged in dock isn't an obstacle for Navy.

 

[shade2]

https://www.aninews.in/news/national/general-news/defence-ministry-finds-lampt-proposal-non-compliant-in-rs-70000-crore-submarine-deal20250122221402

70,000 Crore for 6 SSK ?
We can get ~3 indigenous SSN with 190 Mw reactor in 70,000 Crore
On any day 3 SSN's >>> 6 SSK
SSK don't have enough range and can't cover beyond Bay of Bengal
Hope MOD cancels p75i & procures 9 SSN in toto

SSBN needs SSN to protect it
2 x Arihant class
2 x S4 class
6 x S5 class

10 SSBN would translate minimum 3 SSBN at sea always so 3 SSN dedicated to protect SSBN

View: https://x.com/manupubby/status/1882277916475802085?s=46

Same news but completely different spin, Indian defence media are utterly useless

ANI is usually the govt mouthpiece but Manu is usually pretty reliable too

As clear as mud as usual with these gold plated imports

The case for P75I doesn’t exist anymore, the cost alone makes it a farce

Instead of wasting precious Navy budget on this they can buy more SSN in addition to the existing 2 that have been cleared and go all in to Project 76 deshi submarines.

As it is 3 more Scorpenes will be purchased and first sub delivered in 6 years, these Deutsche Ubooten meanwhile will take 7 years.

The best part is that we don't even know what the Krauts are offering, is it a basic Type 214? a Type 218 type customized and larger sub? The Type 212CD "stealth" sub?

 

[Bleh]

The Indian navy should’ve been making louder noises about the P76 knowing this was going to happen


View: https://x.com/ksingh_1469/status/1882266715452764669?s=46

P75AS buys some breathing room for the indigenous SSK to get ready (around 2034/5), I guess it’ll have to be MDL again, in an ideal world P76 orders could be split with L&T

Chalo ab natak chhoro!

This fucker is with AIP & BraHmos rated, isko G2G kar lo....



I remember the news of France & Russia pulling out. What was they issue with Korea exactly?

 

[ArjunMK1A]

Chalo ab natak chhoro!

This fucker is with AIP & BraHmos rated, isko G2G kar lo....
View attachment 22800


I remember the news of France & Russia pulling out. What was they issue with Korea exactly?

MOD Babus do not like BTS

 

[shade2]

Chalo ab natak chhoro!

This fucker is with AIP & BraHmos rated, isko G2G kar lo....
View attachment 22800


I remember the news of France & Russia pulling out. What was they issue with Korea exactly?

They cucked out over the ToT requirements specified iirc.

This Submarine also is not being offered with the K-Pop K-VLS system so no for u.

LG Submarine is also based on the Type 209 and Type 214 which the Samsung Navy has previous building experience with afaik.

btw the Admirals had designed such troll specifications in the original tender than everybody bowed out including the Russians, and it was not only because of "proven AIP" since the Germans also got out.

Now the question is why have they got in again?
Let's hope they don't screw us in between contract signing and delivery

 

[Corvus Splendens]

Chalo ab natak chhoro!

This fucker is with AIP & BraHmos rated, isko G2G kar lo....
View attachment 22800


I remember the news of France & Russia pulling out. What was they issue with Korea exactly?

No, because it'd make too much sense.

 

[GodEmperorDoom]

MOD Babus do not like BTS

Looks like MoD babus have some issues with koreans. The deal of HSL with SK shipyard regarding FSS also didn't go through.

 

[shade2]

View: https://x.com/manupubby/status/1882367020651733420

MDL has confirmed this



Alpha Defense on "why the Germans got in again"


View: https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1882311984525541661

ThyssenKrupp is doing an IPO of the Marine subsidiary since the Carlyle deal failed.
Ofc the IPO will be a hit if they have a firm order of 6 subs from India

 

[shade2]

MOD Babus do not like BTS

Looks like MoD babus have some issues with koreans. The deal of HSL with SK shipyard regarding FSS also didn't go through.

BTS Gang's biggest "mooh se nivala chin gaya" L was the Minesweeper deal, Korean company was supposed to get deal of 12 + 12 ships and GSL had purchased the equipment to make FRP Hulls also, but then the deal got cancelled.

So I think the dislike now is mutual

 

[shade2]

View: https://x.com/AdithyaKM_/status/1882371335529320673

P75I
TKMS will design a whole new submarine to cater to Indian Navy reqmnts
Design will be given to IN, which will use it to make indigenous sub under Project 76 (P76)

Info based on this article by Snehesh

Centre okays Mazagon Dock & German maker Thyssenkrupp’s bid for multi-billion dollar submarine deal

The L&T-Navantia bid failed to meet technical requirements. The deal, which will easily cost over Rs 70,000 crore, will see the German firm design a new submarine to cater to Indian needs.

theprint.in

Decision can stil be "challenged"

Sources said that once the mandatory period of 45 days after informing the contenders is over, during which the decision could be challenged, the bid by MDL would be opened and cost negotiations would start for the formal contract. However, this means there will be no price discovery for the mega project.

 

[Azaad]

View: https://x.com/manupubby/status/1882367020651733420

MDL has confirmed this

View attachment 22801

Alpha Defense on "why the Germans got in again"


View: https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1882311984525541661

ThyssenKrupp is doing an IPO of the Marine subsidiary since the Carlyle deal failed.
Ofc the IPO will be a hit if they have a firm order of 6 subs from India

Not going to happen soon as I anticipate Navantia moving the courts .

 

[Indianhawk]

Not going to happen soon as I anticipate Navantia moving the courts .

Clarification by mdl means the commercial bid has already been opened.

So it seems 45 days period has already passed.

Besides moving to court will be a decision by L&T. There involved in other projects makes that much less likely to happen.

 

[Azaad]

Clarification by mdl means the commercial bid has already been opened.

So it seems 45 days period has already passed.

Besides moving to court will be a decision by L&T. There involved in other projects makes that much less likely to happen.

Yes , that's always going to be a kind of permanent break to Navantia's plans to spoil IN's party though I don't think there's anything in our laws governing contracts that one party in a JV can't move courts which is to say if Navantia's pissed enough it can bypass L&T & move the courts on its own instead of on behalf of the JV .

It's an outside possibility but nevertheless a possibility.

 

[vampyrbladez]

View: https://x.com/AdithyaKM_/status/1882371335529320673

Centre okays Mazagon Dock & German maker Thyssenkrupp’s bid for multi-billion dollar submarine deal

The L&T-Navantia bid failed to meet technical requirements. The deal, which will easily cost over Rs 70,000 crore, will see the German firm design a new submarine to cater to Indian needs.

theprint.in

So by 2035 we can expect the Indian Navy to have :

Conventional

• (6+3) Scorpene AIP diesel electric submarines
• (6) TKMS AIP diesel electric submarines
• (1-2) (Total 6) P 76 AIP diesel electric submarines

Nuclear

• 2 (total 6) P 77 SSN
• (4) Arihant
• (2) (Total 3) S5 SSBNs
• (1) Akula SSN

This why the navy mogs the other services when it comes to planning.

 

[Indianhawk]

Well Rajput is old as fuck... In any actual combat will be detected & tracked from 1km off port. In a best case scenario where submarines or stand-off missiles launched from air aren't involved, it might just survive long enough to launch it's BraHmos which will allow it a range advantage.

It's the same with Brahmaputra Class as well. In a pure ship-vs-ship surface-to-surface naval combat 8 BraHmos will allow it to strike 1st & fuck-off, just in case it finds itself in anything other than support role.
View attachment 22752


IMO they should just stuff it with SAMs. It has a good aerial radar.

And/or 2 ballistic missile launcher in the heli-hangers like Sukanya. It has no business being in anti-sub ops.

Role for the ship depends on quantum of upgrades. Do remember it's being re-powered which is a massive investments as well as technical challenge. Navy must have thought throughly before going in for it.

 

[Indianhawk]

The Delhi Class (P 15) has a superior hull design which was used on the Kolkata (P 15A) and Vishakhapatnam Class (P 15B) as well.

The destroyer has 2 x 24 arm launcher based Shtil-1 (32 Km) SAM and 32 x Barak 1 (12 Km) SAM which means it has decent area air defence.

Therefore, it makes sense to upgrade from 16 x KH 35 (130 Km/ M 0.9) to 8 x BrahMos (450-900 Km/ M 3.0) to further enhance the firepower.

The Rajput Class destroyers went from 4 x P 15M missiles to 8 x BrahMos + 4 x P15M for some examples because we had no hulls at the time.

The Brahmaputra Class for now will share the KH 35 AShM with the Veer Class (2) and Kora Class (4) corvettes until the smaller vessels are retired by 2030 and replaced with NGMV and NGC.

Hull shall be reinforced during mid life upgrades probably. Getting a diesel engine in place of steam will require many changes but these changes should result in overall capability upgrade. Let's see how it turns out .

 

[Indianhawk]

So by 2035 we can expect the Indian Navy to have :

Conventional

• (6+3) Scorpene AIP diesel electric submarines
• (6) TKMS AIP diesel electric submarines
• (1-2) (Total 6) P 76 AIP diesel electric submarines

Nuclear

• 2 (total 6) P 77 SSN
• (4) Arihant
• (2) (Total 3) S5 SSBNs
• (1) Akula SSN

This why the navy mogs the other services when it comes to planning.

6 tkms will only start induction in 2033-34 if deal is signed this year itself. Then the usual delays associated with new design. We shall be lucky of we have 1-2 of new boats in service by 2035.

Similarly SSN will only become operational by 2040.

 

[shade2]

Clarification by mdl means the commercial bid has already been opened.

So it seems 45 days period has already passed.

Besides moving to court will be a decision by L&T. There involved in other projects makes that much less likely to happen.

L&T can be given half the order to placate them, the rationale can be that MDL will be receiving 3 Scorpenes as it is, plus they would have another Submarine builder but on the East Coast so risk is also reduced, same principle with P17A/B and possibly NGD being shared between MDL/GRSE or those ASW Corvettes split between CSL/GRSE.

So by 2035 we can expect the Indian Navy to have :

Conventional

• (6+3) Scorpene AIP diesel electric submarines
• (6) TKMS AIP diesel electric submarines
• (1-2) (Total 6) P 76 AIP diesel electric submarines

Nuclear

• 2 (total 6) P 77 SSN
• (4) Arihant
• (2) (Total 3) S5 SSBNs
• (1) Akula SSN

This why the navy mogs the other services when it comes to planning.

6 tkms will only start induction in 2033-34 if deal is signed this year itself. Then the usual delays associated with new design. We shall be lucky of we have 1-2 of new boats in service by 2035.

Similarly SSN will only become operational by 2040.

Hope it's not literally "whole new design for Indian Navy" as in that ThePrint article as that will give unnecessary jhanjhat and delays of a new design, better it just be an existing Type 214/218 derivative, maybe they can add more length and batteries and all.

I am against this if it is ((( new design ))) better just be a derivative one, order split between MDL/L&T and Project 76 following after or in parallel.

 

[Bleh]

View: https://x.com/AdithyaKM_/status/1882371335529320673

Hope it's not literally "whole new design for Indian Navy" as in that ThePrint article as that will give unnecessary jhanjhat and delays of a new design, better it just be an existing Type 214/218 derivative, maybe they can add more length and batteries and all.

I am against this if it is ((( new design ))) better just be a derivative one, order split between MDL/L&T and Project 76 following after or in parallel.

So, on this new design... as I had predicted months ago in the P-75i thread.

Copying from there:

Seems like we're getting neither existing 212A (below) or their upcoming 212C/D, but some derivative models based on both Type 212A for base shape, but like 214 (below after 212A) for the tower shape & fins position, however with the nose & slanted sides taken from the 212C/D for stealth...

Good... it's a khichdi, but it'll be our unique model.

 

[vampyrbladez]

Hull shall be reinforced during mid life upgrades probably. Getting a diesel engine in place of steam will require many changes but these changes should result in overall capability upgrade. Let's see how it turns out .

Would you prefer to spend 20 lakh rupees to modify an old Maruti Esteem (Brahmaputra Class) or buy a Jeep Compass (Next Generation Corvette) for the same price.

6 tkms will only start induction in 2033-34 if deal is signed this year itself. Then the usual delays associated with new design. We shall be lucky of we have 1-2 of new boats in service by 2035.

Similarly SSN will only become operational by 2040.

Assuming a contract signing in 2026, the first submarine will be induced in 2033. I don't foresee any delays since the capacity to build submarines won't be lost (3 follow on Kalvari Class submarines) unlike what happened last time.

Given the SSBN program, atleast 2 SSN under P 77 will be ready or in service by 2035.