Indian Navy Developments & Discussions

[Bleh]

Absolutely not!

SSN are faster & will have a 100days endurance (limited by oxygen & food supply)... that's it. Although they can "dash" to a location it'll make plenty of noise for them to be detected while their own noise at high-speed renders themselves deaf. Also batteries are more silent than nuke-powerplant can't be made to shut-up, resulting in this:

During War Games, an Indian Diesel Submarine Sank a U.S. Nuclear Submarine

Key Point: When used properly, diesel-powered submarines can be just as deadly as nuclear ones. The Indian submarine INS Sindhudhvaj (S56) allegedly “killed” USS City of Corpus Christi (SSN 705) during an exercise called Malabar that is held annually between India, Japan and the United States...

nationalinterest.org

Maybe they're slightly better individually, but definitely aren't double the worth. Even 4 SSKs over 3 SSNs anytime. Slow & silent & standoff-ranged 3 SSGNs (Arihant with BraHmos) over 3 SSNs any day.

We quietly disposed off the Akula with no replacement or lease extension attempts.

While the Indian losers have failed to build upon the Kilo Class & Kalvari Class & will doubtlessly continue to do so in future, Chinese Yuan Class SSKs which was a derivative of their Kilos are seeing interesting development.

Two designs have been sighted, may vlbe seperate or experiments on the same model.

 

[Gessler]

INS Tamala on sea trials


View: https://x.com/battle_machines/status/1882167841958551680

This could be the last foreign-built principle surface combatant we ever induct.

...unless we get any more stupid ideas (which we are well-known for getting).

 

[GodEmperorDoom]

While the Indian losers have failed to build upon the Kilo Class & Kalvari Class & will doubtlessly continue to do so in future.l, Chinese Yuan Class SSKs which was a derivative of their Kilos are seeing interesting development.

Two designs have been sighted, may vlbe seperate or experiments on the same model.
View attachment 22862View attachment 22863

DPSUs+Democracy are the ultimate abomination. We seems to pick the worst traits of both systems and made a zombified version of it. Either one works FreeMarket Private+ Democracy or DPSUs+Autocracy.

 

[fire starter]

This could be the last foreign-built principle surface combatant we ever induct.

...unless we get any more stupid ideas (which we are well-known for getting).

It is a perfect example of military hardware diplomacy.

Now Americans have replaced the Russians.

 

[Gessler]

It is a perfect example of military hardware diplomacy.

Now Americans have replaced the Russians.

You can influence decisions by buying things we actually need, but can't produce ourselves.

Like oil/energy.

But of course people in the MoD, Armed Forces (can't deny that some are corrupt) & foreign contractors/shipyards would want to make some money as well so they push a lot of these deals.

The American deals (like Stryker) appear more aimed at promoting interoperability rather than outright favour trading, because for one - these deals are pittances compared to the kind of money the US MIC moves. Not big enough to influence decisions with State dept.

I think the total amount of arms we bought from US since turn of century is around $20-25 billion. Saudis bought $30 billion worth of F-15SAs in one shot - and that's still not enough to get Biden to designate Houthis as terrorists and lift restrictions on ordnance use.

But even $1 billon in Russia goes a long way cuz their arms industry is a cash-starved system. But it's up to us if we want to spend it on the Russian arms industry, procuring sub-par hardware, or in lining the pockets of Rosneft, buying something we actually need but can't produce ourselves.

Kremlin is happy either way.

 

[abingdonboy]

44 Years Later, India Chooses German U-Boats Again - Livefist

Nearly half a century after it chose to buy and build German Howaldtswerke-Deutsche Werft (HDW) Type 209 submarines for its navy, India has down-selected a new generation submarine offering from the same shipbuilder to meet a requirement of six conventional India-built submarines under the...

www.livefistdefence.com

Can someone please white pill me on the P75I?

From what I can see it is unjustifiable in every way today

View: https://x.com/ksingh_1469/status/1882497140905394609?s=46

I’m sure the boat will be a lot more capable than P76 will be initially but is there worth $10bn flowing out? For half that DRDO say they can deliver a 5th gen engine.

Even if $10bn is to be spent on subs why not on more SSN? Or just taking the plunge on P76? Have to start somewhere, Germans and the rest are only good at these subs because they invested in themselves and built on their experience over the decades. This idea that india will leapfrog and skip the hard parts is a total myth

And the cherry on top is this is going to MDL so India doesn’t even get an additional submarine line + MDL are the ones that are working on P76 apparently so they won’t even bother with it for at least another 15 years now

just feels like the IN’s MMRCA/MRFA- they’ve had it in their heads for so long they want a foreign boat they won’t think of any other plans

Baffling

 

[darkflame]

Can someone please white pill me on the P75I?

From what I can see it is unjustifiable in every way today

View: https://x.com/ksingh_1469/status/1882497140905394609?s=46

I’m sure the boat will be a lot more capable than P76 will be initially but is there worth $10bn flowing out? For half that DRDO say they can deliver a 5th gen engine.

Even if $10bn is to be spent on subs why not on more SSN? Or just taking the plunge on P76? Have to start somewhere, Germans and the rest are only good at these subs because they invested in themselves and built on their experience over the decades. This idea that india will leapfrog and skip the hard parts is a total myth

And the cherry on top is this is going to MDL so India doesn’t even get an additional submarine line + MDL are the ones that are working on P76 apparently so they won’t even bother with it for at least another 15 years now

just feels like the IN’s MMRCA/MRFA- they’ve had it in their heads for so long they want a foreign boat they won’t think of any other plans

Baffling

Cost is very justified scorpenes without aip is costing us 1.4 billion USD per unit. P75i subs being offered by Germany have a displacement twice that of scorpenes, and comes with aip and lithium ion batteries and still per unit cost is more or less the same.
P77 SSNs will be our first nuclear attack subs and it is very unlikely we will catch up with Europe and us on our first try, taking in account arihant class is nothing but an underwater orchestra, if we want ourselves to rise up to take challenges from china and even Pakistan we will need these submarines and there is no p76 without p75i, because we still don't have know how to make our own, if we had the know how we haven't had waited, each of our type 209 and kilos are getting mid life refit, first type 209 was commissioned in 1984 and came out of MLU in 2023 and will atleast service till 2033 that's a total 49 years of service!!.each of our submarines will go the same way and will service around 50 years or more,needless to say how hazardous such old submarines will be for its crew itself.

 

[shade2]

Can someone please white pill me on the P75I?

From what I can see it is unjustifiable in every way today

View: https://x.com/ksingh_1469/status/1882497140905394609?s=46

I’m sure the boat will be a lot more capable than P76 will be initially but is there worth $10bn flowing out? For half that DRDO say they can deliver a 5th gen engine.

Even if $10bn is to be spent on subs why not on more SSN? Or just taking the plunge on P76? Have to start somewhere, Germans and the rest are only good at these subs because they invested in themselves and built on their experience over the decades. This idea that india will leapfrog and skip the hard parts is a total myth

And the cherry on top is this is going to MDL so India doesn’t even get an additional submarine line + MDL are the ones that are working on P76 apparently so they won’t even bother with it for at least another 15 years now

just feels like the IN’s MMRCA/MRFA- they’ve had it in their heads for so long they want a foreign boat they won’t think of any other plans

Baffling

Order will be split in all likelihood, MDL will be getting 3x Kalvari and 6x of these German subs if contract is signed, that's a lot of backlog and production concentrated in one location.

So logically it should be split with L&T getting the other share.

That is the trend right now, Large orders getting split between 2 shipyards, P17A, ASW-SWC, HSL Fleet replenishment tanker.

Giving L&T half of the order is also a good way to prevent them from doing court case filing and all.

Baaki even i'd prefer P76 instead but idk what specific ToT we will be getting with this submarine + any industrial/diplomatic benefits with ze Germans.

 

[shade2]

Is mine sweeper harder to build than a destroyer? If we can build SSBN & aircraft carriers, I believe we can build a small mine sweeper too..

GSL already purchased the FRP hull production equipment, and I don't think it would be hard to just buy the mine-sweeps from 5 places or maybe DRDO could develop some themselves.

Ofc for this there has to be a demand from the User in the first place, User has other priorities with their funds, that is to do boat-maxxxing of missile and torpedo carrying boats and also submarines.

 

[Bleh]

Can someone please white pill me on the P75I?

From what I can see it is unjustifiable in every way today

View: https://x.com/ksingh_1469/status/1882497140905394609?s=46

I’m sure the boat will be a lot more capable than P76 will be initially but is there worth $10bn flowing out? For half that DRDO say they can deliver a 5th gen engine.

Even if $10bn is to be spent on subs why not on more SSN? Or just taking the plunge on P76? Have to start somewhere, Germans and the rest are only good at these subs because they invested in themselves and built on their experience over the decades. This idea that india will leapfrog and skip the hard parts is a total myth

And the cherry on top is this is going to MDL so India doesn’t even get an additional submarine line + MDL are the ones that are working on P76 apparently so they won’t even bother with it for at least another 15 years now

just feels like the IN’s MMRCA/MRFA- they’ve had it in their heads for so long they want a foreign boat they won’t think of any other plans

Baffling

Cost is fine... P75 Scorpenes are 1.2-3 bil each, 1.4bil for 6 new gen stealth P75i SSKs with AIP plus ToT for P-76 is reasonable enough. We won't get 6 SSNs for the price, but if these come with BraHmos VLS then it's the best we can get.
That's why Korea pulled out of the race, because the original quote was to low for ToT.

Also I think other shipyard may also be building them, not just MDL.