Indian Navy Developments & Discussions

[Ayan Barat]

So max diameter is ~0.65 meters

If you can pack all the fins, hinges, conduits, restraints...in just 25mm (radial height above fuselage of 300mm) then you've achieved a feat that's extremely rare in the whole world regarding packing efficiency of missiles and canister.

Sub launched brahmos ER will use this canister insted of above mentioned universal canister.....

No matter what canister it uses, it would be of similar dimensions.
• you need a safety gap between canister body and missile
• you need space to accommodate all the things that are going to prevent the missile from moving in all six DoFs. When ships move in Sea State 5 the resulting acceleration becomes 2.5g.
• you need space to accommodate a mechanic that allows the missile to move in one DoF when it's fired
• the canister can't be paper thin, there's some thickness of it too
• it's not land or ship, you now need to account for the water pressure too.

Drdo uses similar canisters & TEL's to keep development cost less

That universal canister you posted is used to launch k15 , shaurya , pralay ,

I would be glad to know how DRDO uses the canister developed for cold launch of BrahMos to hot launch K-15, Shaurya and Pralay.
Especially given the fact that this whole canister is just 8.5m whereas Pralay's missile alone is 9m long.

 

[Bleh]

If you can pack all the fins, hinges, conduits, restraints...in just 25mm (radial height above fuselage of 300mm) then you've achieved a feat that's extremely rare in the whole world regarding packing efficiency of missiles and canister.

No matter what canister it uses, it would be of similar dimensions.
• you need a safety gap between canister body and missile
• you need space to accommodate all the things that are going to prevent the missile from moving in all six DoFs. When ships move in Sea State 5 the resulting acceleration becomes 2.5g.
• you need space to accommodate a mechanic that allows the missile to move in one DoF when it's fired
• the canister can't be paper thin, there's some thickness of it too
• it's not land or ship, you now need to account for the water pressure too.

I would be glad to know how DRDO uses the canister developed for cold launch of BrahMos to hot launch K-15, Shaurya and Pralay.
Especially given the fact that this whole canister is just 8.5m whereas Pralay's missile alone is 9m long.

I think he's right... If we're gonna make estimates, our baseline should be the universal BrahMos Cannister.

 

[Pundit Pikachu]

Biradars @Bleh @Ayan Barat @AGNI 6 ICBM @vampyrbladez @Indianhawk @Migflug @Blood+ @Azaad
Literally all of you are wrong
Dimensions from official Aerospace website

So Good luck fitting anything more than 3 missile in a Arihant VLS module which has a height of 10m and external diameter of 1.7m


Image courtesy Trishul Trident

 

[Ayan Barat]

Biradars @Bleh @Ayan Barat @AGNI 6 ICBM @vampyrbladez @Indianhawk @Migflug @Blood+ @Azaad
Literally all of you are wrong
Dimensions from official Aerospace website

What if I say the dimensions in the official site are "wrong" too!?

What exactly is a 200-300kg warhead? You put a 200kg warhead and with time it drinks kerosene and gains 100kg! Or is it a Schrodinger's warhead where it's in a state of 200-300kg untill the detonator goes off. And both air and ground launched versions have the same range of 290km! Where's physics?

The dimensions of the Nibe canister that I quoted is still pretty much the most accurate data you can have if you're dealing with a VLS.

 

[Pundit Pikachu]

What if I say the dimensions in the official site are "wrong" too!?

Sure whatever you say buddy

What exactly is a 200-300kg warhead? You put a 200kg warhead and with time it drinks kerosene and gains 100kg! Or is it a Schrodinger's warhead where it's in a state of 200-300kg untill the detonator goes off

Who knows maybe it's a Schrodinger's warhead, maybe it's not, Or is it a cannibalistic warhead afterall

Oh look it ate some of that solid fuel and gained 50 kg in this missile as well, bad bad warhead

Seriously dude, different role, different variant different warhead, what's the big deal.

Maybe the Air launched variant use a smaller warhead, maybe the Navy and Army versions use different types of warhead, no need to make a mountain out of a molehill

And both air and ground launched versions have the same range of 290km! Where's physics?

Where's physics when the range of Ground Launched increased from 290 to 800km without any significant structural changes.

Did it ever occur to you that, a brochure meant for foreign dignitaries is bound to have MTCR compliant ranges mentioned in it.

 

[vampyrbladez]

How would the TEEVRA 40 (Naval L&T 40mm Bofors) fare in place of the CRN 91 on the ASW-SWC.

Indonesia is using atleast 2 units on it's Teluk Bintuni-class tank landing ship.


View: https://x.com/AdithyaKM_/status/1587832606640713728/photo/1

CRN 91

TEEVRA 40

This Ammunition is used against Aircraft and sea skimmer missile threats. This is fired from 40 mm L70 BOFORS & BREDA 40 mm L70 guns.

https://ddpdoo.gov.in/product/products/product-details/cartridge-40-mm-l-70-pffc1


View: https://x.com/idrwalerts/status/1875186676584309159

 

[Pundit Pikachu]

How would the TEEVRA 40 (Naval L&T 40mm Bofors) fare in place of the CRN 91 on the ASW-SWC.

From a technology perspective it's a perfect replacement (Except less ammo storage and slightly increased weight)
But Paisa Babumoshai Paisa, CRN 91 is dirt cheap compared to literally anything else

 

[vampyrbladez]

22nd Missile Vessel Squadron

 

[Bleh]

22nd Missile Vessel Squadron

This is the 22nd. It uses Veer Class.

 

[Binayak95]

View: https://x.com/VivekSi85847001/status/1883130034552267040

Bhai, nuke sub program, MPV program, Dhruv and Anvesh, ASWSWC GRSE build, OPVs.

How would the TEEVRA 40 (Naval L&T 40mm Bofors) fare in place of the CRN 91 on the ASW-SWC.

Indonesia is using atleast 2 units on it's Teluk Bintuni-class tank landing ship.


View: https://x.com/AdithyaKM_/status/1587832606640713728/photo/1

CRN 91

TEEVRA 40

https://ddpdoo.gov.in/product/products/product-details/cartridge-40-mm-l-70-pffc1


View: https://x.com/idrwalerts/status/1875186676584309159

The IN has already procured one for user trials. Its on it way to replace every fucking thing that uses the chutya BMP2 at sea.

 

[Hawkeye]

From a technology perspective it's a perfect replacement (Except less ammo storage and slightly increased weight)
But Paisa Babumoshai Paisa, CRN 91 is dirt cheap compared to literally anything else

I am quite damn sure now that this Sudarshan or TEEVRA whatever has its roots in Leonardo Marlin 40 gun.
Sudarshan is nothing but ditto design as Leonardo Marlin 40, but with a slightly different outer cover and many components indianised and indigenized.

Well, the gun is fine and all but with an extremely low magzine depth of 72 rounds. They could atleast have made a more dense packing ammo handling system atleast for the ground towed version of the gun where space constraint is not an issue.

This is really a good way to make ch*tiya of IDDM clause. I don't have any problem with private cos giri but don't pass your slightly modified foreign maal as some IDDM product when at best it's only an Indian manufactured product only and not designed and developed.

I also hate the fact that even among us people, people tend to simp for more K9 when we should be focusing on developing our own automated ammo/charge handling turreted artillery system and put that thing on whatever the next tank chasis we are planning or even for that sense arjun chasis is superbly fine or make a new chasis with forward engine.

My ideal system for any 40mm based AD gun is something akin to PASARS-16 but with
Indian gun and vshorads. Add EO/IR and a drone detection radar with and you have yourself a reasonably good forward deploy AD unit. We can also add lightweight radar mounted 4*4 as early warning sensor against planes and helis.

 

[shade2]

View: https://x.com/VivekSi85847001/status/1883130034552267040

Rationally thinking they should get a portion of the P75I order since MDL will be getting 3x Scorpenes already.
Giving L&T the order will give us another conventional sub manufacturing centre on the east coast aside from MDL on the west.

Besides the current trend with Navy is to split large orders into two shipyards, e.g Nilgiri class, ASW-SWC, HSL Fleet Tanker( L&T gets to build two of these, subcontracted from HSL )

 

[Bleh]

LMAO y'all have such high expectations from Indian Navy. They may be our better one but they're still ours!

Let me explain.....

Anyone here remembers her?
View attachment 22553
That flush-decked beauty was a 2800ton light-Frigate design GRSE blew my mind by suddenly coming up with completely out of the blue based on Kamorta class, for the Phillipines & Brazilian tenders. Without any support, they ofcourse list but it was valiant effort... very unlike Indians.

So what are we doing now?.. Did we go for a readymade design based on an existing platform with minor modifications. Ofcourse not. They probably forgot this exists & will take a decade to come-up with a NGC design while Kavaratti's drydock goes to rot.

Indian GRSE Faces Disqualification In $319 Million Philippines Navy Frigate Contract

Indian GRSE Faces Disqualification In $319 Million Philippines Navy Frigate Contract

www.defensemirror.com

After GRSE emerged as the lowest bidder, the Philippine Navy assessed the yard to determine whether it was capable of meeting the order. While the yard scored perfectly on physical infrastructure and capability, it did not meet requirements on the financial side, which required adequate funds to construct the vessels over the next few years without any payments from the Philippines.

India govt. failed to be the guarantor of GRSE, they only had to sponsor them until the frigates were complete & the payment was fine after handover.

Urinal me dub maro!

 

[shade2]

Indian GRSE Faces Disqualification In $319 Million Philippines Navy Frigate Contract

Indian GRSE Faces Disqualification In $319 Million Philippines Navy Frigate Contract

www.defensemirror.com

View attachment 23364
India govt. failed to be the guarantor of GRSE, they only had to sponsor them until the frigates were complete & the payment was fine after handover.

Urinal me dub maro!

Strange behavior from GoI because otherwise they love screeching DEPHENS EXFORTS everytime.

 

[ArjunMK1A]

Strange behavior from GoI because otherwise they love screeching DEPHENS EXFORTS everytime.

This was during NDA 1 around 2016. So no export India. Our weapons noise started around 2017 with atags.

Meanwhile around 2018 brazil also rejected the ship for MEKO but currently they are building them with 2025 as commission of first ship

 

[Azaad]

Strange behavior from GoI because otherwise they love screeching DEPHENS EXFORTS everytime.

Check out the date. It's from 2015. Our defence ties with Philippines were non existent then . Conversely RoK which eventually got that contract was well embedded even then in the Philippine defence eco system. Moreover RoK enjoys a good reputation in the field of ship building.

Not justifying what MoD / GoI did but we were operating under severe limitations . Besides let's not forget how HAL's export of ALH to Ecuador proceeded . It's not as if our DPSU's enjoy a great deal of confidence within our Dhoti class & especially among the babooos.

That both of the latter have done little to better the state of affairs there is another matter altogether or maybe not , as it is linked to the entire process of exports which the GoI is emphasising in the present . You'd not see such examples today.

 

[Azaad]

View: https://youtu.be/c2QS_aEsVuw?si=9GoNlgA_ID6n8MCt

For those who didn't know AIP , H I Sutton has come up with an interesting primer on the topic. It's a 4 year old documentary but still very relevant.

 

[Bleh]

Delhi class getting throne Kh-35 replaced by BrahMos. By direct comparison, one can guesstimate how it's look on the Brahmaputra Class.

 

[Binayak95]

Delhi class getting throne Kh-35 replaced by BrahMos. By direct comparison, one can guesstimate how it's look on the Brahmaputra Class.View attachment 23415View attachment 23416

That has one small hitch in that the Brahmaputras are already top heavy. They might become unstable with the inclined cells.

The Delhi class has a legendary hull, which could take (with dead weight ballast down low) the MFSTAR uptop.

Brahmaputras are basically Leander max pro + models - good for the time, but already maxxed out in terms of weight and upgrade.

The diesel engine replacement may give it the freespace needed, but i kinda doubt it, if anything they'll become more unstable thanks to lower displacement in the engine room.

What they should become are ASW and AD centric warships with a secondary ASuW role, second rate frigates alongside the Talwars.

 

[Bleh]

That has one small hitch in that the Brahmaputras are already top heavy. They might become unstable with the inclined cells.

The Delhi class has a legendary hull, which could take (with dead weight ballast down low) the MFSTAR uptop.

Brahmaputras are basically Leander max pro + models - good for the time, but already maxxed out in terms of weight and upgrade.

The diesel engine replacement may give it the freespace needed, but i kinda doubt it, if anything they'll become more unstable thanks to lower displacement in the engine room.

What they should become are ASW and AD centric warships with a secondary ASuW role, second rate frigates alongside the Talwars.

Probably... You can clearly see it's ancestry makes it narrower but higher than same sized Talwars.


But it's actually as as high as Shivalik at deck & fit deeply installed BrahMos VLS lower than the Kh-35s if we try.

Or maybe the 2 twin-launchers is Rajput Class. Godavaris started out with 4 Styx AShMs only.


They Delhi & Kolkata Classes both have beam×depth of 17×6.5m. Nilgiri has is even wider with 18×5.2m & BrahMos VLS sit much lower in Nilgiris so in assuming the destroyers have lower hull-depth than its 10m.
Kamorta is top-heavy too. Probably which is why NGC with MF-STAR are being redesigned & not built over it.