Indian Navy Developments & Discussions

[randombully]

Agreed, we cannot use in NGC, NGMV due to high cost. NASM-MR provide an good alternative. Low cost and easy design. For Frigates and Destroyers hope DRDO perfect the Nirbhay and his sons. Because we are dire need of Tomahawk like missiles to reduce cost.

The Tomahawk like missile is latest varient of nirbhay that was tested, nirbhay is much better due to longer range than nasm-mr which is primary made for fighter jets.
That long range is more desirable as corvette and missile boats will mostly act as additional missile carriers to help larger destroyers and frigates.

 

[Azaad]

GB was, is and will remain a strong ally. We never can't forget that.

Ah , so there's an heirarchy in le Francais scheme of things ! But that doesn't prevent le Francais from selling to everyone . Hope potential buyers take note.

Even with some leaks about exocet range GB lost some ships due to exocet.... so Le Francais say you shut up.

It's because the Exocets were so successful UK approached le Francais for a solution to which the latter duly obliged & threw the Argentines under the bus.

And to speak about India, please don't forget Kargil, and the international ban (except France) after nuclear crisis.

We appreciate the gesture just as we noted that le Francais then went ahead & gave the licence to mfg the Agosta class submarines to Paxtan , which le Francais sold to the latter in 1995.

Shortly after that le Francais concluded a deal with India selling the Scorpene submarines.

Nice strategy of the le Francais on display here .

 

[shade2]

NASM-MR should be the missile of choice for corvette and missile vessel type ships , instead of on every ship ever. Our boats need more missiles given even our destroyers only carry 16 brahmos.

That is the reason for NASM-MR development my dude.
on everything is too expensive, plus the kharcha of it's VLS.

These harpoon type missiles that NASM-MR is can be fit in those slant launchers amidships like how the Western ships have.

 

[shade2]

Found an interesting paper on AIP subs, might interest someone.

https://jmstt.ntou.edu.tw/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1152&context=journal

Some interesting snippets

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Im personally also interested in the viability of the older style of AIP, closed-cycle engines, since they could use much cheaper fuels. Although running an engine underwater on ethanol/methanol (more viable than diesel IMO for cleaner burn) would be much noisier than fuel cells, my guess is that it could give higher energy returns.

Admirals only want the latest and best and clearly they have prioritized muh silence instead of speed in the subs.

Otherwise MESMA would be fitted since the Frenchmen offered it with Scorpene/Kalvari, or a simpler Stirling engine based AIP could be built or licensed from those Swedes, would take lesser time to develop compared to the current bespoke PAFC + onboard Hydrogen generator AIP setup being built by DRDO


Also from this paper it seems as if the AIP directly drives the propeller, earlier i used to think that it charges the batteries, same as diesel engine while surfaced, is this correct?

 

[vampyrbladez]

The Malacca Strait chokepoint (4) question has been weighing on my mind for some time and the main problem Indian Navy will face is that PLAN will deploy merchant vessels with containerized C-802, YJ 12, YJ 18 missiles before sending in their main fleets.

The Chinese merchant fleet has grown rapidly in recent years, doubling in capacity over the past decade. The average size of a Chinese merchant ship is easily ~ 40,000 tons. Even if built to commercial standards (likely), capable of surviving multiple hits from most AShM (Harpoon-KH 35-Exocet class).

To reduce casualties, the Indian Navy can deploy sensor-shooter USV (unmanned surface vessel) and UUV (unmanned underwater vessel) teams to pick apart this merchant vessel and force PLAN fleets to stand and fight Indian Navy-Australian Navy-US Navy joint fleets as the second line of defence.

Another advantage would be to ensure resupply and refueling lines are kept open for use and prevent the Chinese from sneaking a submarine fleet and blockading the Indian Navy out of reach of it's home bases.


Sensor Team :

• A large unmanned surface combat vessel can be mounted with an 'S-Band, X-Band' AESA radar like the Chinese JARI-USV-A "Orca" .

China’s JARI-USV-A Orca Unmanned Vessel with VLS revealed at Zhuhai

China’s JARI USV A Orca Unmanned Vessel with VLS revealed at Zhuhai

armyrecognition.com

• Unmanned Underwater Vessels can be launched from unmanned surface combat vessels or an XUUV like the Manta Ray uncrewed underwater vehicle to conduct hydrographic surveys.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/topic...logical-sciences/unmanned-underwater-vehicles


Shooter Team :

• Different hull forms of tons and VLS configurations can be used to launch coordinated attacks on the merchant vessels and even ASROC/SMART style torpedos may be deployed to deter Chinese submarine packs.

https://www.twz.com/air/navy-to-sim...cus-on-containerized-payloads-that-look-alike

• Unmanned Surface Vessels could be equipped containerized UVLM/SLS systems that can launch BrahMos missiles or cheaper, smaller and more short ranged munitions like NASM-SR can be quad packed

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-new...tins-optionally-unmanned-surface-vessel-ousv/

• Kamikaze AUV/UUVs may also be deployed to make interception difficult and add a new dimension to the offensive.

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-new...ater-drone-project-to-dominate-the-black-sea/


Loader/Control Team :

• Optionally manned (highly automated) motherships can be used to deploy and control the LUSV/SUSV and UUVs and cause maximum damage while minimizing casualties.
  
  
• Additional sensors like "S-band + X-band" AESA radar system and EO/IR may be deployed on these motherships to detect threats and take decisions as necessary or seek help from the main Indian naval forces deployed nearby.

https://www.defstrat.com/magazine_articles/drone-motherships-make-debut/

• Using modular payloads, the motherships can rapidly resupply and return the USV/UUV back into the fight and ensure that force presence is effective in the theatre.

Production Capability

• While MDL and GRSE are expected to be occupied with P 17B, P 18A/B, Scorpene Follow-On, P 75I, NGC, etc and CSL with IAC-2 and NGMV, smaller shipyards like GSL and L&T Kattupalli may be used to churn out these ships and deploy them by the early 2030s.

Seems like the South Koreans are going all in on the USV concept. Featured below is the Batch-II variant with the following specifications :

Displacement :

• approximately 200-ton class

Sensors :

• Integrated Mast (I-MAST); Dual-band (S/X) Phased Array Multi-Function Radar (MFR) (scaled)
• EO/IR
• EOTS
• LiDAR
• 360-degree imaging camera

Weapons Systems :

• 2x2 SSM 700-K C-Star AShM (M 1.0+ ; 180KM+)
• 20mm RCWS
• 6x2 130mm GPS + INS + data uplink (mid course) and IIR (terminal) guided rockets
• 8x 2.75mm K-LOGIR / Poniard guided rockets
• 1x Drone Multiple Launcher (10 drones each)

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-new...gn-breaks-cover-at-drone-show-in-south-korea/

 

[shade2]

Seems like the South Koreans are going all in on the USV concept. Featured below is the Batch-II variant with the following specifications :

Displacement:

• approximately 200-ton class

Sensors :

• Integrated Mast (I-MAST); Dual-band (S/X) Phased Array Multi-Function Radar (MFR) (scaled)
• EO/IR
• EOTS
• LiDAR
• 360-degree imaging camera

Weapons Systems :

• 2x2 SSM 700-K C-Star AShM (M 1.0+ ; 180KM+)
• 20mm RCWS
• 6x2 130mm GPS + INS + data uplink (mid course) and IIR (terminal) guided rockets
• 8x 2.75mm K-LOGIR / Poniard guided rockets
• 1x Drone Multiple Launcher (10 drones each)

View attachment 26628
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https://www.navalnews.com/naval-new...gn-breaks-cover-at-drone-show-in-south-korea/

Ye dekh ke i feel the future of missile boats is optionally manned, like you can print them to be used either as drones or have a small crew.

We could do this once nasm-mr is operational, there is a naval pinaka in development also but idk what it will be used for

 

[vampyrbladez]

Ye dekh ke i feel the future of missile boats is optionally manned, like you can print them to be used either as drones or have a small crew.

We could do this once nasm-mr is operational, there is a naval pinaka in development also but idk what it will be used for

I used Gemini to try and generate a concept of such an USV given my poor photoshop skills.





For a VLS based counter UAS, we can have the Bhargavastra (16 units).



Deck retractable Naval Pinaka (8 units) would provide the long range standoff capabilities for littoral bombardment and anti surface warfare.



Adding an infrared seeker along with booster to the ER-ASR (Extended Range - Anti Submarine Rocket) (8-12 units)



For comparison, here is a cutaway of the VAMPIRE 70mm rocket (APKWS), the RGB 60 is 214mm by comparison



Now all that is needed is a way to make the NASM-SR deck launch compatible.

 

[shade2]

Singapore plans procurement of 2 more submarines, new maritime patrol aircraft - Naval News

Singapore is now planning to procure two more Invincible-class submarines and to replace its fleet of maritime patrol aircraft.

www.navalnews.com

Admirals should ask for a derivative version of this Type 218SG instead of the enlarged Type 214 with angular hull which is basically a new design.

Otherwise they will be doing beta testing for this new custom design like how the Greeks & Koreans had to do for the base model Type 214 when it was new.

The Curse of Type 214 Continues | TURDEF

Type 214 submarines continue to cause problems for users. The last issue came from the Republic of Korea (ROK).

turdef.com

 

[Nutcracker]

Singapore plans procurement of 2 more submarines, new maritime patrol aircraft - Naval News

Singapore is now planning to procure two more Invincible-class submarines and to replace its fleet of maritime patrol aircraft.

www.navalnews.com

Admirals should ask for a derivative version of this Type 218SG instead of the enlarged Type 214 with angular hull which is basically a new design.

Otherwise they will be doing beta testing for this new custom design like how the Greeks & Koreans had to do for the base model Type 214 when it was new.

The Curse of Type 214 Continues | TURDEF

Type 214 submarines continue to cause problems for users. The last issue came from the Republic of Korea (ROK).

turdef.com

Singasuar is literally a chinese proxy bootcamp. Chinese would harvest radar signature of that submarine within 30 days of delovery. We should avoid buying anything which they procure.

 

[vampyrbladez]

Singapore plans procurement of 2 more submarines, new maritime patrol aircraft - Naval News

Singapore is now planning to procure two more Invincible-class submarines and to replace its fleet of maritime patrol aircraft.

www.navalnews.com

Admirals should ask for a derivative version of this Type 218SG instead of the enlarged Type 214 with angular hull which is basically a new design.

Otherwise they will be doing beta testing for this new custom design like how the Greeks & Koreans had to do for the base model Type 214 when it was new.

The Curse of Type 214 Continues | TURDEF

Type 214 submarines continue to cause problems for users. The last issue came from the Republic of Korea (ROK).

turdef.com

The Indian Navy's planned Project 76 would be a much bigger Type 212A possibly due to AIP and VLS for BrahMos.

 

[shade2]

L&T - Second most interested party and already working on Ship building, Missile systems. But they are getting cock blocked by DPSU Ship builders when it comes to Capital ships like destroyers. Then force them to act as sub system partner.

It's the navy doing this I guess not the DPSU shipyards themselves, L&T should try hiring a few retired Commodores or other officers for shipbuilding subsidiary, Adani already started doing this in their subsidiary, forces will gain confidence if they're interacting with one of /theirguys/ on the other side


For e.g GRSE has been the largest order-giver to L&T Katupalli by subcontracting various ships, iirc


3x ASW-SWC Corvettes

2x Survey Ships, Sandhayak class


HSL has subcontracted

2x Fleet Supply Ships

If you ask me, frigates and destroyers should be given to L&T Katupalli and 1x DPSU shipyard like MDL.

The ((( demographics ))) around GRSE are very dicey, you never know when a riot might take place and the whole shipyard be a victim of tactical arson disguised as riots.

 

[vampyrbladez]

It's the navy doing this I guess not the DPSU shipyards themselves, L&T should try hiring a few retired Commodores or other officers for shipbuilding subsidiary, Adani already started doing this in their subsidiary, forces will gain confidence if they're interacting with one of /theirguys/ on the other side


For e.g GRSE has been the largest order-giver to L&T Katupalli by subcontracting various ships, iirc


3x ASW-SWC Corvettes

2x Survey Ships, Sandhayak class


HSL has subcontracted

2x Fleet Supply Ships

If you ask me, frigates and destroyers should be given to L&T Katupalli and 1x DPSU shipyard like MDL.

The ((( demographics ))) around GRSE are very dicey, you never know when a riot might take place and the whole shipyard be a victim of tactical arson disguised as riots.

Finally the AK 630s and RBU 6000 will see some action against localized ((( demographics ))).