Indian Small Arms and Weapons (4 Viewers)

[Simon Riley]

On an unrelated note
The 9mm 'CMG' as it is called in the Indian army, is unanimously hated/disliked by everyone, including the instructors, who advice be done with it and never pick it up again in your life

And for good reason

that gun belongs in a musuem

 

[Simon Riley]

@marliii any comments on your experience firing Insas/ak

will you be taught to fire a SIG 716?

 

[Corvus Splendens]

yep, INSAS is quite chonky and mass-ey build of kalashnikov that helps a lot with recoil + muzzle climb mitigation,

for some basic comparison, for some ~18 inch of barrel length,
>Galil ARM, which is LMG-esque full length build of rifle with a folding bipod, and milled receiver construction at it
mass = 4.35 KG
>INSAS 1B, just full length assault rifle in stamped sheet metal construction (should be lighter),
mass = 4.018 KG



so it's a hunk-o-metal build that mostly keeps recoil and muzzle climb in control as an advantage, rest it's just...yeah you know better

I recall that old video of US army soldiers trying it out, and they found it smoother to shoot than their M4s. It has the right weight to keep the recoil down since the 62gr. round is as hot as an M855. Only if the production batches were consistent in quality. And even the propellant isn't consistent between batches

Otherwise the 2 rounds would be near identical in terminal ballistics, with the INSAS firing with slightly higher muzzle energy than an M855 out of an M16.​

 

[Tactical Doge]

will you be taught to fire a SIG 716?

Insas/Insas lmg/CMG/ak203/sig/Negev/carlgustav

 

[aspdeepak]

Bharat forging (Kalyani) is the largest forging company and has extensive knowledge in metallurgy. They also have extensive knowledge in large caliber fun barrels (ATAGS), so this is a great win-win situation.

Bharat Forge - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

For anybody who wants know what is metal injection moulding is:


View: https://youtu.be/Ys-RMVJ89dk?si=0KCV4B4Y5kiv3o3b

Industrial scale MIM:

View: https://youtu.be/3CJmdMHi5vU?si=H6R-Ktghlc-49gWa


View: https://youtu.be/adV0XowK8h0?si=AkZaEDXZ-YLY7og3

 

[johny_baba]

this carbine tender thing literally stemmed out from ARDE / OFB's failures of delivering an adoptable Carbine variant of INSAS around 90s when the rifle and G variants got inducted but carbine one got rejected over high noise and controllability issues - after that they forked Amogh and eventually MSMC/JVPC out of that line while also trying to woo the armed forces with some Kalantak "micro assault rifle" thing

so as i was saying,
THE ORIGINAL INSAS Carbine was a short barrel version of INSAS, looked something like this

yeah i know it's matchbox sized pic, but that's the only one i have from some late '80s era article on INSAS by Shekhar Gupta

it failed in trials over 'too much recoil, noise' reasons, but aside from this, there existed a...variant like this because...reasons



anyways, then DRDO ARDE folks made Amogh in 5.56x30mm MINSAS, original Amogh had wooden construction with AKS-47 style underfolding buttstock


some other small matchbox styled images suggest Amogh too had some other prototypes like,
-one with AK style build as shown above, a reciprocating charging handle on right side and AK side fire selector on right side, some had vertical front grip like above, some didn't,
-other was INSAS-esque build with a non-reciprocating SLR-esque charging handle on left side atop handguards and thumb operated fire selector on left side => THIS INSAS-esque build of Amogh became standard build of Amogh later on, with INSAS styled polymer translucent magazine, black coloured polymer furniture etc



but Amogh too didn't get adopted as Carbine, although plenty of police and paramilitary units are using it

then, DRDO ARDE folks tried to revive original INSAS Carbine line by making Kalantak '07 that later got name "Micro Assault Rifle", the earlier prototype was probably forked from OG failed INSAS carbine, while later prototype was probably forked from Excalibur rifle,

as you could clearly see there's...some thing sticking out of barrel of Kalantak here...what is it ? my best assumption is, it's some sort of 'expansion chamber' ported from barrel so excess gases can expand there and reduce muzzle blast and noise, the front end might be having release port for them to vent out after expanding in rearward bulged chamber
and also, in later Excalibur fork of Kalantak '07 with black things, you can also see a magwell extension ?! yes! that 'button' like thing seems like magazine release button,
and yes that Eotech Holographic sight is actually mounted atop a small piece of picatiny rail! perhaps Kalantak '07 was first ever desi weapon here with even a piece of picatiny rail!

nevertheless, even Kalantak '07 'Micro Assault Rifle' did not get adopted

then happened what?
most likely MSMC/JVPC
those too had two distinct variants,

original MSMC was like above, with giant open pistol grip for most likely using it with mittens in cold regions, this build was definitely forked from INSAS 1B, and it had single piece kalashnikov style receiver design, top cover was just held in place by locking recesses on trunnions and recoil spring tab at end, top cover was given full length of picatiny rail for reddot or holographic style optics, it also had a gas cut off lever in front, for some reasons?! and yes it did take bayonets too

later they further improved upon this fork of MSMC, the changes on it were minimal, probably they removed gas cut off lever, and provided more pistol-grip styled frame at bottom, rest it remained same,

then, they shifted to two-piece receiver design with final prototype of MSMC that eventually became JVPC

top - final variant of MSMC that became JVPC, bottom - current version of JVPC in that finish, notice changes in handguards and grip section, also i think very recent JVPCs also have newer design of muzzle device on barrel

So, JVPC is partially in service across various units but didn't become mainstream replacement of 9mm 'Sterling' Carbines

^a summary of how much we've gone through just to replace that janky ass 9mm Sterlings

 

[vampyrbladez]

 

[RDXChauhan]

SVDs need to be replaced though. Those are rather ancient at this point. I remember a few years back they were modernising those. How's the progress on that front?

Yes
Fab defence and SSSD mod kits were procured for a lot of them

But a significant number of unmodified ones are still present, intrestingly they show up more with Ghatak platoons than the Battalion Marksman or whatever way the Sniper/Marksmen are working