Indian Special Forces

IWIarad11 said:
And people will say "Oh, well we had big grps back then!" You literally had a fresh grp of 10 infiltrate out of which you could somehow kill 2 and lose 4 of your own + got 3-4 more injured.

It's a skill issue.
Click to expand...
Not as simple as that but I agree with you but consider this
- 9th Corps (WC) handling the ops [not CI/CT focused] and no proper armed VDGs in this area, also dont think RR is too active here

(Not CICT focused means not that strong of an intel grid as well, only JKP inputs)

- Hiranagar has been a known infiltration point, Still BSF can't stop these groups

- 1SF troops had some night gear (not that standardized among the whole team but still) and they were searching in the cordoned off area as well but reports suggest that terrorists escaped even before army units were deployed (JKP's cordon failed)

- Commanders often stick to that classic strat of 'lets just wait it out till we have lowest chances of casualties' so even if troops have night gear and the terrorist group is yet to be spotted again, they are hesitant to deploy troops even with proper night gear

Which I think is still a good call as you are the one searching and terrorists with thermal sights (recovered later from the group) can easily target you.

The 4 cops KIA during the ops reportedly had no protective gear and looks like weren't going after terrorists initially
- casual search but coincidently spotted the group and 3 were KIA in initial fire and 1 sometime later, one of them or maybe a 5th one managed to pass on info and that led to SOG's deployment
[NOT OFFICIAL, JUST CONNECTING DOTS WITH KNOWN INFO, I COULD BE REALLY WRONG]

I am just pointing out what went down in detail, not justifying the forces or supporting you, just adding more info which can be taken into consideration while judging
 
GhatiyaOperator said:
Not as simple as that but I agree with you but consider this
- 9th Corps (WC) handling the ops [not CI/CT focused] and no proper armed VDGs in this area, also dont think RR is too active here

(Not CICT focused means not that strong of an intel grid as well, only JKP inputs)

- Hiranagar has been a known infiltration point, Still BSF can't stop these groups

- 1SF troops had some night gear (not that standardized among the whole team but still) and they were searching in the cordoned off area as well but reports suggest that terrorists escaped even before army units were deployed (JKP's cordon failed)

- Commanders often stick to that classic strat of 'lets just wait it out till we have lowest chances of casualties' so even if troops have night gear and the terrorist group is yet to be spotted again, they are hesitant to deploy troops even with proper night gear

Which I think is still a good call as you are the one searching and terrorists with thermal sights (recovered later from the group) can easily target you.

The 4 cops KIA during the ops reportedly had no protective gear and looks like weren't going after terrorists initially
- casual search but coincidently spotted the group and 3 were KIA in initial fire and 1 sometime later, one of them or maybe a 5th one managed to pass on info and that led to SOG's deployment
[NOT OFFICIAL, JUST CONNECTING DOTS WITH KNOWN INFO, I COULD BE REALLY WRONG]

I am just pointing out what went down in detail, not justifying the forces or supporting you, just adding more info which can be taken into consideration while judging
Click to expand...
A lot can also be said on how the terrorists are evading, moving
I could give out stats but things could get ugly for me.
All 4 JKP personnel were in the older age group.
As you said they couldn't initiate and were killed by the terrorists.
Kathua doesn't have an RR grid, nor SOG.
Terrorists have been photocopying infiltrations every 2 months, the night fighting part is true ofc, but the onus to what's happening also lies on the IB and the force deployed on the IB/Kathua border belt
 
GhatiyaOperator said:
Not as simple as that but I agree with you but consider this
- 9th Corps (WC) handling the ops [not CI/CT focused] and no proper armed VDGs in this area, also dont think RR is too active here

(Not CICT focused means not that strong of an intel grid as well, only JKP inputs)

- Hiranagar has been a known infiltration point, Still BSF can't stop these groups

- 1SF troops had some night gear (not that standardized among the whole team but still) and they were searching in the cordoned off area as well but reports suggest that terrorists escaped even before army units were deployed (JKP's cordon failed)

- Commanders often stick to that classic strat of 'lets just wait it out till we have lowest chances of casualties' so even if troops have night gear and the terrorist group is yet to be spotted again, they are hesitant to deploy troops even with proper night gear

Which I think is still a good call as you are the one searching and terrorists with thermal sights (recovered later from the group) can easily target you.

The 4 cops KIA during the ops reportedly had no protective gear and looks like weren't going after terrorists initially
- casual search but coincidently spotted the group and 3 were KIA in initial fire and 1 sometime later, one of them or maybe a 5th one managed to pass on info and that led to SOG's deployment
[NOT OFFICIAL, JUST CONNECTING DOTS WITH KNOWN INFO, I COULD BE REALLY WRONG]

I am just pointing out what went down in detail, not justifying the forces or supporting you, just adding more info which can be taken into consideration while judging
Click to expand...
Also, these could be 3 different grps or 2 different grps

- Hiranagar (Civilians came in contact with infiltrating group)
- Dinga Amb Area (civilians spotted terrorists)
- Juthana (Cops spotted them, that 4 KIA op area)

If I am not wrong, these areas are atleast 20+ km apart, so them traveling from initial hiranagar location to these while search is on . . . UNLIKELY

Edit: But also 3 grps roaming around in 20-25 km radius also UNLIKELY

(NOT OFFICIAL, I COULD BE WRONG)
 
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More Info: Those 2 Terrorists were eventually smoked by Army Boys (1SF? But infantry was also deployed)

- Please don't move this and older posts to CI/CT as this adds details to that whole 'SF responding to this situation' discussion
 
GhatiyaOperator said:
Could be, Could be not
Reports later mentioned a SF ambush
Yes, RL was used in this op to clear off suspected parts of the area but not sure about this ambush

Considering state of the dead bodies, they were most likely killed by gunfire
Click to expand...
Are u by any chance talking about headshots?
 
9th corps seems to be at the front with drone tech in IA, but maybe only testing till now
Would like to see them use it in such ops when these hogs enter their area
 
GhatiyaOperator said:
Most of the head part of both terrorists is not that clearly visible in the pics hence, can't say
But overall body is still intact, Gunfire is most likely
Click to expand...
Head shots are confirmatory for a kill…many times they act like they are dead and injure or kill own troops..so head shots are taken in the end.
 
IndiaRising said:
We dont have the manpower to tackle them. Forces are not dominating the upper reaches where these chaps hide. They are taking advantage of it.
Click to expand...
Hate to say this but they are using better tactics and technology.

Like i said earlier if you want to use ww2 tactics then you can put a million troops but results wont come.
 
GhatiyaOperator said:
Could be, Could be not
Reports later mentioned a SF ambush
Yes, RL was used in this op to clear off suspected parts of the area but not sure about this ambush

Considering state of the dead bodies, they were most likely killed by gunfire
Click to expand...
1 Terrorist was killed by JKP in initial exchange of fire another killed by SF.
2 yerrorists (heavily injured) are on run towards Bilawar-machedi
 
RDXChauhan said:
3 dead bodies spotted from drone was our own guys JKP who were killed by terrorists.
Only 2 terrorists are killed till now.
The jkp guys as you might have seen were neither equipped nor trained for taking on terrorists.
One more thing, the new bunch is bent on surviving rather than dying.
A quote from The Dark Knight Rises would explain it better
"How can you move faster than possible, fight longer than possible, without the most powerful impulse of the spirit: the fear of death?"
Click to expand...
Sorry my bad karan dhar guy initially said 3 terrorist killed bodies spotted via drone
4 police Kia body spotted via drone
So i misunderstood
 
Actually the Dysp along with 6 other men were out on a search op (they were wearing t-shirts with no BPJ or helmet).
As they were approaching a cave up the mountain, terrorists spotted them first and opened bursts along with grenades
Dysp along with 4 others were down in the initial bursts (most of them had splinters in head due to no helmets), the remaining cops managed to return fire and kill one
Dysp and another less Injured soldier were carried down by the remaining guys.
SOG along with army ( Kumaon+ 1 SF) later cordoned off the area and started engaging the tangos
In this exchange more 2 JKP personnel received minor injuries and 1 SF guy received splinter on his hand + 1 Terrorist was shot dead
All this took place the same day upto 7pm.
No night fighting by remaining 2 terrorists, they left their rucksacks and ran away
 
Also dont think we will ever see PARAs actually getting kills at night in such petty encounters.
Commanders maintain that Wait it out till low chances of casualties thing which I think is justified
So, Night combat is only limited to Special Ops for them
Even if they spot them with night sights, they will be asked to only track their movement and most likely no engaging.

Don't judge them on 5-6 secs of news clips, They had night gear and also used it to actually search but as mentioned before army deployment was too late in Hiranagar

Irregular night gear seen on squads roaming around in areas where news reporters are stationed (1-2km away from actual site) might not be same for main squad on-site

YES, they need to improve but were not night blind here
Although justified that casualties should be low but Night Fights have to be initiated with these well trained groups with such quality of gear.

[ONLY REFERRING TO INITIAL CONTACT AT HIRANAGAR. NO NIGHT SEARCH OR FIGHT TOOK PLACE AT JUTHANA]
 
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