Indian Special Forces

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View: https://x.com/TacticalKafir/status/1906236038026334651/photo/1
 
hkdas said:

View: https://x.com/amanroutray7/status/1906231085274693853?t=TmTyINAuaA8Y0mFZZ1FVJA&s=19
Click to expand...

>last trigger pull gives noticeable dry fire click
i don't understand why they didn't put a bolt hold open-release on Asmi, like they are using glock pattern magazine here so putting a BHO would only require additional part inside with a release lever/paddle extension outside, and in CQB it's helpful...they're already using B&T MP9 a lot and that's gotten a BHO device in it
 
johny_baba said:
>last trigger pull gives noticeable dry fire click
i don't understand why they didn't put a bolt hold open-release on Asmi, like they are using glock pattern magazine here so putting a BHO would only require additional part inside with a release lever/paddle extension outside, and in CQB it's helpful...they're already using B&T MP9 a lot and that's gotten a BHO device in it
Click to expand...
Because it was not designed for CQB from the start.
It was designed as a replacement for sterling smg, and personal defense weapon.
And indian army used to ak style guns and insas are used to manually pulling back the handle then changing the bolt, so they didn't put up the requirements for a BHO.
They also wanted a cheap and simple gun, BHO will be an extra part that will add complexity( negligible) and cost( slightly).

Basically:- army didn't put forward requirement for BHO, plus wanted a simple and cheap gun.
So that army col. And drdo scientists developed it without bho.
 
GhatiyaOperator said:
Also dont think we will ever see PARAs actually getting kills at night in such petty encounters.
Commanders maintain that Wait it out till low chances of casualties thing which I think is justified
So, Night combat is only limited to Special Ops for them
Even if they spot them with night sights, they will be asked to only track their movement and most likely no engaging.

Don't judge them on 5-6 secs of news clips, They had night gear and also used it to actually search but as mentioned before army deployment was too late in Hiranagar

Irregular night gear seen on squads roaming around in areas where news reporters are stationed (1-2km away from actual site) might not be same for main squad on-site

YES, they need to improve but were not night blind here
Although justified that casualties should be low but Night Fights have to be initiated with these well trained groups with such quality of gear.

[ONLY REFERRING TO INITIAL CONTACT AT HIRANAGAR. NO NIGHT SEARCH OR FIGHT TOOK PLACE AT JUTHANA]
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Jnk p and army infantry should use captured chinease thermals on thier rifles
I have yet to see captured m4 and thermals
 
username unkown said:
Jnk p and army infantry should use captured chinease thermals on thier rifles
I have yet to see captured m4 and thermals
Click to expand...
When infantry units from jnk were deployed to chinease border it created void due to lack manpower and strong intel grid and at same time some minister were indicating to remove army from jnk
And crpf mostly deployed to fight comrades
It definitely created lack of manpower and strong intel
And then famous mirchi kand happened
Part of night fighting is also correct
Trts in 90s were hard core they fight till end they focused on creating max damage
Thease new trts have survival as first priority they do minimal damage and break the contact they have better coordination and communication between them
 
username unkown said:
When infantry units from jnk were deployed to chinease border it created void due to lack manpower and strong intel grid and at same time some minister were indicating to remove army from jnk
And crpf mostly deployed to fight comrades
It definitely created lack of manpower and strong intel
And then famous mirchi kand happened
Part of night fighting is also correct
Trts in 90s were hard core they fight till end they focused on creating max damage
Thease new trts have survival as first priority they do minimal damage and break the contact they have better coordination and communication between them
Click to expand...
Lot of issues in our own
jnk p should atleast have one ti btw 3 they should invest in helmet
They have funds for x 95 but not for basic helmet common sog deserve better
Bsf is complete outdated and refuses to evolve even after seeing trts have completly changed army is atleast trying to adapt and change accordingly even if at snails pace
 
randombully said:
Because it was not designed for CQB from the start.
It was designed as a replacement for sterling smg, and personal defense weapon.
And indian army used to ak style guns and insas are used to manually pulling back the handle then changing the bolt, so they didn't put up the requirements for a BHO.
They also wanted a cheap and simple gun, BHO will be an extra part that will add complexity( negligible) and cost( slightly).

Basically:- army didn't put forward requirement for BHO, plus wanted a simple and cheap gun.
So that army col. And drdo scientists developed it without bho.
Click to expand...
Nah man i see just short sightedness , a PDW should have a last round bolt hold open and release as PDWs are meant to be used to extreme defensive scenarios , if the man is incapacitated (one hand down ) and runs out , reloading a gun with bolt release is a lot easier and quicker compared to one with a charging handle . Same problem is with jvpc , what could have been another MP7 became just a mini AK .

we could have taken two steps forward but we chose to take one instead .
 
Baseplate said:
Nah man i see just short sightedness , a PDW should have a last round bolt hold open and release as PDWs are meant to be used to extreme defensive scenarios , if the man is incapacitated (one hand down ) and runs out , reloading a gun with bolt release is a lot easier and quicker compared to one with a charging handle . Same problem is with jvpc , what could have been another MP7 became just a mini AK .

we could have taken two steps forward but we chose to take one instead .
Click to expand...
I'm not against bho.
I just explained why they didn't go with bho in asmi, as army "didn't felt" the need to add bho.
I already wrote the extra complexity due to bho will be negligible and extra cost will only be slight.

Just like CQB fast reload where every sec. Matters, that point about about one hand being down is pretty legit.
 
GhatiyaOperator said:
Not as simple as that but I agree with you but consider this
- 9th Corps (WC) handling the ops [not CI/CT focused] and no proper armed VDGs in this area, also dont think RR is too active here

(Not CICT focused means not that strong of an intel grid as well, only JKP inputs)

- Hiranagar has been a known infiltration point, Still BSF can't stop these groups

- 1SF troops had some night gear (not that standardized among the whole team but still) and they were searching in the cordoned off area as well but reports suggest that terrorists escaped even before army units were deployed (JKP's cordon failed)

- Commanders often stick to that classic strat of 'lets just wait it out till we have lowest chances of casualties' so even if troops have night gear and the terrorist group is yet to be spotted again, they are hesitant to deploy troops even with proper night gear

Which I think is still a good call as you are the one searching and terrorists with thermal sights (recovered later from the group) can easily target you.

The 4 cops KIA during the ops reportedly had no protective gear and looks like weren't going after terrorists initially
- casual search but coincidently spotted the group and 3 were KIA in initial fire and 1 sometime later, one of them or maybe a 5th one managed to pass on info and that led to SOG's deployment
[NOT OFFICIAL, JUST CONNECTING DOTS WITH KNOWN INFO, I COULD BE REALLY WRONG]

I am just pointing out what went down in detail, not justifying the forces or supporting you, just adding more info which can be taken into consideration while judging
Click to expand...
No RR in Jammu
 
This operation as a strategic failure for the indian armed forces. The fact that Special Forces are being used for an operation in which Infantry should be more than capable of handling is proof of the fact that Indian Infantry (more namely RR) has been outmodernized by the militants.

In the 90s and early 00s 20 terrorists killed was a norm in an operation
 
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