Indian Special Forces


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50MQc6xPvUY

His point on pistols is such a Para SF mentality lol
"a pistol's short sight radius harder to hold harder to shoot the chances that you miss are pretty good low light situations"

Despite this, Delta had amazing pistol standards, McPhee was just not the kind of guy to accept it, also take the context of the video too and then see...we are comparing the skillset of our elite in the army to a vetran's take on civilian home defence
 
Trying to Understand Special Group (litterally 12 A.M thoughts)
Sources I am using are
- India's Special Forces by Lt Gen PC Katoch
- India's Wars: A Military history, 1947-1971 by Air Vice Marshal Arjun Subramaniam

Lt Col Nanavatty lead a committee to discuss special operations, based on what he saw of the SAS in UK. This was in very late 1970s. Apart from discussing how Para commando units must be mandated, it discussed the need for another tier of specialist forces which would handel strategic level operations.

One thing very clearly mentioned in the report was - 'Takeover the current responsibilities from the SFF'

That being said, it makes sense only to see what SFF was before SG was formed, today SFF is largly (not entirely) but largly - a paratrooper/airborne unit manned by Tibetans, if we can agree on this then you might want to read further.

What did SFF did in 1971 ?
In short, targeted enemy logistics and morale from behind the front lines, used Psy Ops, was given the autonomy to operate outside standard military chain of command, did helicopter-borne operations to disrupt logistics and enemy HQs and operated behind Pakistani lines in Chittagong as well as Burma...similar to MACV-SOG which also relied on close aerial support and was to sabotage Ho Chi Minh trail, and go far into Laos, Cambodia.

Though key differences are that MACV-SOG was far more globalized and tech-supported, with greater air mobility, and access to cutting-edge American war tech.......SFF did have access to Aviation Research Center etc..but America is america....
Also another key difference was that SFF was smaller and more regionally focused, but equally daring, especially given the terrain (jungles, hill tracts) and the political stakes of Indo-Pak-China dynamics

So SFF at the time was just India's own very limited SOG, and I am not comparing it with MACV, which was a much larger and focused, well supported element....just the SOG part kinda.

Now we can safley assume that SFF's these 'duties' would likely have been transferred to SG. By the way, SG did other operations as well like close protection and hostage rescues

So, Special Group was formed to do deep reconnaissance, covert action, high-value target neutralization and direct action in foreign or disputed territories

However, the books, especially the first one also defines, that the role of SG remains undefined in public doctrine, limiting broader military integration and strategic use.

Lt Gen Katoch mentions that a lack of deterrence capability has been noted despite RAW using SG, suggesting we underuses SG’s potential for bold strategic missions....this has been confirmed by an unamed ex SG guy in this article so I belive it to be true

Now my understanding is, that the so called 'misuse' of SG could largly be because it's used in counter insurgency operations in Kashmir, which RR and SF already handel. I could be wrong, maybe they know what they're doing but that's my take on it

I think the closest unit that comes with SG's mandate is UK's 14 Int or SRR in a peactime setting and America's SOG in a wartime setting.

The thing is we never know when they might be at a secret war, Check how CIA assisted Che Guvera's capture and possible killing later on. They did use the same SOG like tactics they did in Vietnam but with lesser resources and support...somewhat such that they do not want to discuss it either

That's all I have to say
 
Would compare SG to G Sqn, CAG or ISA more than SRR or SOG of CIA.
that also works.......if you read G Sqn's operations in Annaconda they go about environmental recce and stuff, climbing mountains, testing gear, driving snowmobiles, preparing larger force for combat...that's what Alpine SG would do I guess.

Also SRR does similar to what G Squadron does, Black Squadron does, ISA does infact....

Realizing how much overlap all of them had in JSOC, Lt Gen Stanley McChrystal formed the Joint Special Operations Command Intelligence Brigade which had all these units, be it G Squadron, Black, ISA (TF Orange) working together and that's what SRR is also doing

Any idea if SG has some maritime capability too ?
 

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50MQc6xPvUY

His point on pistols is such a Para SF mentality lol
"a pistol's short sight radius harder to hold harder to shoot the chances that you miss are pretty good low light situations"

Despite this, Delta had amazing pistol standards, McPhee was just not the kind of guy to accept it, also take the context of the video too and then see...we are comparing the skillset of our elite in the army to a vetran's take on civilian home defence

The thought process is that getting good with a pistol makes one better with a carbine automatically, even if the chances to use a pistol in actual combat might be lesser as compared to a rifle.
 

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8mED-hMfck

Around 46:13 he describes that SG is kinda same to how SF operates in valley but most troops do work in civies and is on need to know basis. So I think the SRR is a correct equivalent to it. But then again we may never know

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All SG units within SFF, apart from coin ops does what Americans call AFO, surveillance and close target reconnaissance ops mainly. Some troops are highly specialised eg - A specific troop within a team in SG is also responsible for Nabbing or offing HVTs in various scenarios. Alpine SG is mostly used as a replacement of SG mtn troop, they also provide Security detail to Amarnath yatra.
 
The thought process is that getting good with a pistol makes one better with a carbine automatically, even if the chances to use a pistol in actual combat might be lesser as compared to a rifle.
not his message in the video, he actually argues that for civilians a rifle would do better because they might not always have the luxory of night training and stuff....that being said yes pistols are harder so if you can master fundamentals on a pistol getting to a rifle would be easier. That is why american SOF train so much of pistol fundamentals
 
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All SG units within SFF, apart from coin ops does what Americans call AFO, surveillance and close target reconnaissance ops mainly. Some troops are highly specialised eg - A specific troop within a team in SG is also responsible for Nabbing or offing HVTs in various scenarios. Alpine SG is mostly used as a replacement of SG mtn troop, they also provide Security detail to Amarnath yatra.
yea that's what SRR does too
The only time SRR sees combat is usually when they were deployed for COIN ops in Northern ireland back as 14 Int where they'd operate simialr to SAS but with better intel.
SRR also has a specific team for snatch and grab which was asigned to Task Force Helmand in Afghanistan and with Task Force Black in Iraq...small but capable.
 
not his message in the video, he actually argues that for civilians a rifle would do better because they might not always have the luxory of night training and stuff....that being said yes pistols are harder so if you can master fundamentals on a pistol getting to a rifle would be easier. That is why american SOF train so much of pistol fundamentals
Not the video.. I meant the thought process in Delta
 

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