Indian Special Forces

[Arad Operator]

Marcos ????

68RR

 

[lexCommando]

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

View: https://x.com/newsiadn/status/1860360872134406325?s=46

 

[hkdas]

the way i see this..

hostage negotiation is not a core competency for Para SF, an individual CO would rarely be involved in a hostage situation in his tour or tenure, it happens but not that often. if the C.O in this case followed laid down SOPs for this operational area, he need not be accosted here.

and perhaps it is not a good idea to assume, the scope of core competency should be increased because of this incident(hostage situation), since this will dilute their core competency.

and no, if the para sf had taken casualties in that incident, many fanboys in this forum will not be so forgiving as you are.

HR is part of special forces mandate. Just because para SF aren't trained for it doesn't change the fact.

Its not the job of Para SF to do these operations.

They dont have the training,they dont have the equipment and its not the job of a Army SF to do Hostage rescue.

In US military even ranges do tactical HR operations if situation arises. Yes I agree, Training level of para SF is poor, training infrastructure is pathetic compared to other foreign special forces. Look at the casuality rate of para SF.. 3 to 4 trained terrorists are talking out whole SF squad.. multiple such insiders happened.. always casualties on para SF is far higher than their counterparts who are facing far better trained enemies. But Army is filled with ego which prevents them to consider improvement in training, instead they justify their failure with other excuses.

2) why it took them one month to inform army?? and girl had to inform army , father might being a "typical" kashmiri??
3) what made them return after already starting room intervention?
4) what if it were someone other than a kashmiri was a hostage , would they still have opted out of the room intervention?

Father had priority of saving his family. Why would he inform army which might harm his family?(Exactly what happened after army got involved).

Lack of confidence in their own capabilities made them return and opt for less dangerous (for para) way.

It doesn't matter if the the hostages were non Kashmiri or Kashmiris, para SF are still the same. Ya if the hostages were non Kashmiris and highly influential then NSG might have involved in the operation instead of para SF.

 

[Bleh]

The most important equipment a good soldier need to conduct hostage rescue during day time is a rifle with good optics.
Clearly para SF have it.
What they don't have is good training. What they have in abundance is... EGO.
If anyone questions them they will say "we ran 100km with 40kg weight, can you do it!?"

If any civilian question them about their rifles, they will counter it by asking a counter question of "have you ever fired a weapon!? If not don't talk about it".

Dude half of DFI talks like that!

These guys were supposed to be hunters & that's what they're trained for. Leave the hostage situation to NSG. Let Garud guard AF bases & train on retrieving downed pilots behind the line & let Marcos to naval/littoral ops.

Sabko sabkuchh chodna hy

As far as I could understand: it was an op with RR (mike and all woh hi karte hai) but yeah even I've heard 9 para guys used call out trts from caves to surrender.

One thing on their side I'll say to defend these actions, is that many of these losers do surrender. I have a friend who was in RR (punishment posting for punching a superior ) & he shared that much of these "revolutionaries" lose their appetite for jihad very quickly. They often join for the glory & girls but don't actually have stomach for it.
Telling them they're surrounded & getting their family to talk them out of it qre valid tactics, which commonly work.

Seeing a guy demanding to get some pussy must have made them interpret him as one of those Kashmiri incels. With another day another guy, this could have indeed been bloodlessly solved.

 

[Kilomike2]

From 18:10. This para SF officer talks about a hostage rescue operation...
Guys, this so called "tank" should have court martialed soon after the operation.
This idiot and his fucked up team doesn't even know how to deal with an active hostage situation.
This idiot waited for 1 hour asking pakis terrorists to leave the kid they had taken hostage, then he send kid's mother to those pervert terrorists to convince them to leave the kid alone. And in frustration of being surrounded and didn't get the chance to fuck that kid's sister, terrorist cut the throat of the kid, that unfortunate mother had to witness the blood and body of the boy with cut open throat..!!!


WTF!!?? He and his unit/battalion don't deserve to be in Indian army, but they are our SPECIAL FORCES...!!!!

The insident happened like this..
A family was taken hostage by terrorists for 1 month, their demand was to have sex with the elder girl in the family and they were having that till father saved the girl by somehow sending her away.
Army para SF got Intel(probably through the girl) and came there, start Mike announcement to let know terrorists about army's arrival.
Then terrorists send 4 younger girls and 2 boys out and took father and younger boy as hostage (they did that because less number of hostages are easier to handle).
Army conducted room intervention and came to know that terrorists were in top floor,
Father escaped from terrorists and ran towards soldiers, soldiers got the father and he informed about the boy held by terrorists, All withdraw and came out of the house, despite knowing that the boy is held by terrorists... Waited 1 hour outside the house, para SF continues the Mike announcement from outside.. Send the kid's mother inside as she volunteered for it(probably got frustrated by the inaction of para SF soldiers and she realises that to save the life of the boy she needs to do something), she goes inside the house and she saw her kid's blood along with the body with throat slit.

So let me tell you something which the officer did not clarify in the podcast.

This incident is from Mir Moholla, Hajin, 2019
Combined op of 13 and 31 RR

This family that was 'trapped' in the house was present with the terrorists for past two weeks. They were being fed and served well by that family. The locals even spotted that 11 year old boy playing football with those Paki tangos in their compound.

They were hardcore OGW's who were in contact with the Lashkar handlers in Pak.

While staying in that house one of the terrorist fell for the daughter (19) of the 60 year old father, so the father sent away his daughter to their relatives. So the tension builded up when the terrorists got to know about it.

So when the CASO started near the house the terrorists wanted the family to stay with them but they resisted.

When the forces tried to get the civies out from the house, the terrorists themselves sent away the mother and other ladies out but kept the father and son.

In the second room intervention attempt by 31 RR, they were fired upon being spotted and it failed.

In the 3rd attempt to rescue while the terr0rists engaged the army, the father escaped from the window like a coward leaving his son behind.

the terr0rists even shot a couple of rounds towards the father, but he ran away

Frustrated brave mujahids, ch0pped up the neck of the 11 yr old kid

The army teams probably thought that the father has escaped along with the kid so they backed off.

The mother of the kid repeatedly asked local SP and Coy cmdr to let her speak to the terrorists. As she knew the 'mujahids' well and they weren't bad people and that they will release the kid upon being requested.

So the army took her along with them inside the house and the terr0rists asked her to come and see her son. So she went near the room and saw the body of her son lying down. Upon seeing this she ran away and was taken down.

Using drones the army confirmed, the boy was dead.

and then the room was blew up using IED's

I think it was a completely logical decision by the officers to let her talk with them as the terrorists were the one's to let her go and she was happily staying with them for the past 2 weeks.

the 3rd rescue attempt was almost a complete success had the father not left behind his son.

The room layout was very simple, just a door for entry which connects it the staircase and a window (quite like the pic I have attached). One terrorist was probably guarding the door while one was guarding the window.

They had good stores of 7.62 ammo, grenades and even a fking Thuraya SAT phone.

We have seen operators risking their all to save civilians in Pampore, I don't know what makes you believe that they didn't do it here.

after the operation that mfking family did not even said a word against those Paki pigs. All they could do was accuse the army on indirectly killing their boy in interviews.

Seeing the family's loss, the local magistrate asked the police to drop off all charges against that family for helping terrorists with stay and food.

The police compensated them with money to build a new house and other freebies

 

[Jedi Operator]

Does that matter if the operation was with RR or CRPF or Police!!?? That operation was conducted by para SF.
Are they supposed to stop room intervention operation after knowing terrorists are holding up on top floor!!??
Are they supposed to exist the house when terrorist are confirmed to be hold up inside the house with a hostage (that too a young boy)!!??
Waiting for 1 hour after stopping room intervention midway in the hope that highly radicalised Pakistani terrorists may have a change of heart and leave the kid alone!!!????
Man, where is the logic in any of the action that para team took!!!??

if the CO had continued with the room intervention and had taken both civil and military casualties, what would the discussion here look like?

Why the heck are NSG not deployed permanently in Srinagar with a dedicated helicopter available?

Read this carefully:

As I mentioned in the post before Para SF lack modern CQB methods and their standard tactics seem more suited for law enforcement roles than hostage rescue or proper room clearance, even guys from NSG cant bring much change cause no one in the battalion is asking for it. They think their is little skill transfer from NSG to SF.

Search for Col Pratyush of 21 Para SF who later joined NSG and was sent with a 30 man NSG team in Kashmir for urban ops in 2016. He mentions that the authorities never allowed NSG to intervene even though in a lot of instances NSG could do a far better job than any unit present there of the army.

So it's a failiure of leadership as well. Then comes the lack of integration between different SF units. Atleast there should have been cross training between SF units at the SFTS, but there seems to be none. Here's an example -

I have read 10 Para SF's side of story from Parampore Op in 2016 in India's Most Fearless 2 and 9 Para SF's side of story from the book Balidaan.
Now in the recce of the structure and all was done perfectly by Capt Pawan's team but in the aftermath of his death, the 10 Para officers revealed that the op was ahead of the SOPs they've practiced - like they always did room intervention during day time (lack of night fighting capabilities I guess) and that the fallen captian had to stand in the way of the fatal funnel and rush in to stop the terrorist from gaining the advantage, that too could have been solved with the simple use of a stun grenade (I doubt Paras had one)
Then Capt Tushar's story tells us that he had written a mannual for room intervention for 9 after attending a course with US Navy SEALs regaurding the subject. His buddy was also ex SG (probably from an SCTU team Idk)
Capt Tushar used grenade launchers to make holes just beside the windows, so that his snipers had proper visibility for an accurate shot inside the building. He breifed his team to make their entry from both sides of the establishment and used charges to blast open doors. One of the guys from 9 tells the author of the book that no matter how much negotiation, equipment or drones you carry until each room is cleared and threat to hostages is first neutralized, no operation is complete.
The chapter discusses that Tushar put himself on point-man role, cause apparantly officers lead from the front, whereas here I disagre because in all accounts Ln Nk Om Prakash was considered a great point man, something happens, Tushar is not confident which is seen while his team is breaching a door earlier and later as room intervention goes smoothly, I guess they hear that the captain of a 10 Para team is hit, the 9 SF team does not repeat the mistake carried by 10 SF of not clearing rooms with grenades where they're sure (probably through sniper overwatch) that no civilian or friendly is there. However still Tushar's buddy Om Prakash is taking fire, Tushar goes to save him and gets mortally wounded too. They eliminate all terrorists however.

Now the thing is, that because of lack of shared SOPs, because of lack of equipment, because one team conducting the op is experienced in CQB other is not. All these factors - Para SF as a whole might not be as competent as the fanboys make it. Yes - individual acts of bravado are no less but their is a clear sign that across the establishment principles and tactics are not shared.

There is no standard selection, no standard equipment, no standard operating procedure, no cross training. It's as if each battalion is it's own special force and the whole regiment is like a command having all these different battalions that refuse to cooperate with each other

 

[username unkown]

So let me tell you something which the officer did not clarify in the podcast.

This incident is from Mir Moholla, Hajin, 2019
Combined op of 13 and 31 RR

This family that was 'trapped' in the house was present with the terrorists for past two weeks. They were being fed and served well by that family. The locals even spotted that 11 year old boy playing football with those Paki tangos in their compound.

They were hardcore OGW's who were in contact with the Lashkar handlers in Pak.

While staying in that house one of the terrorist fell for the daughter (19) of the 60 year old father, so the father sent away his daughter to their relatives. So the tension builded up when the terrorists got to know about it.

So when the CASO started near the house the terrorists wanted the family to stay with them but they resisted.

When the forces tried to get the civies out from the house, the terrorists themselves sent away the mother and other ladies out but kept the father and son.

In the second room intervention attempt by 31 RR, they were fired upon being spotted and it failed.

In the 3rd attempt to rescue while the terr0rists engaged the army, the father escaped from the window like a coward leaving his son behind.

the terr0rists even shot a couple of rounds towards the father, but he ran away

Frustrated brave mujahids, ch0pped up the neck of the 11 yr old kid

The army teams probably thought that the father has escaped along with the kid so they backed off.

The mother of the kid repeatedly asked local SP and Coy cmdr to let her speak to the terrorists. As she knew the 'mujahids' well and they weren't bad people and that they will release the kid upon being requested.

So the army took her along with them inside the house and the terr0rists asked her to come and see her son. So she went near the room and saw the body of her son lying down. Upon seeing this she ran away and was taken down.

Using drones the army confirmed, the boy was dead.

and then the room was blew up using IED's

I think it was a completely logical decision by the officers to let her talk with them as the terrorists were the one's to let her go and she was happily staying with them for the past 2 weeks.

the 3rd rescue attempt was almost a complete success had the father not left behind his son.

The room layout was very simple, just a door for entry which connects it the staircase and a window (quite like the pic I have attached). One terrorist was probably guarding the door while one was guarding the window.

They had good stores of 7.62 ammo, grenades and even a fking Thuraya SAT phone.

We have seen operators risking their all to save civilians in Pampore,View attachment 16405 I don't know what makes you believe that they didn't do it here.

after the operation that mfking family did not even said a word against those Paki pigs. All they could do was accuse the army on indirectly killing their boy in interviews.

Seeing the family's loss, the local magistrate asked the police to drop off all charges against that family for helping terrorists with stay and food.

The police compensated them with money to build a new house and other freebies

So family supported trts and got new house and freebies lol vishvaguru i can't imagine any other country doing same

 

[randombully]

So family supported trts and got new house and freebies lol vishvaguru i can't imagine any other country doing same

They are afraid lefties and west will cry about "Hoomen rights".
Sometimes I really admire chinks for their ability to not give a shit about it, now I wouldn't want Uigher like situation but these peices of shit taking advantage of it while shielding terrorists really pisses me off.

 

[marliii]

So let me tell you something which the officer did not clarify in the podcast.

This incident is from Mir Moholla, Hajin, 2019
Combined op of 13 and 31 RR

This family that was 'trapped' in the house was present with the terrorists for past two weeks. They were being fed and served well by that family. The locals even spotted that 11 year old boy playing football with those Paki tangos in their compound.

They were hardcore OGW's who were in contact with the Lashkar handlers in Pak.

While staying in that house one of the terrorist fell for the daughter (19) of the 60 year old father, so the father sent away his daughter to their relatives. So the tension builded up when the terrorists got to know about it.

So when the CASO started near the house the terrorists wanted the family to stay with them but they resisted.

When the forces tried to get the civies out from the house, the terrorists themselves sent away the mother and other ladies out but kept the father and son.

In the second room intervention attempt by 31 RR, they were fired upon being spotted and it failed.

In the 3rd attempt to rescue while the terr0rists engaged the army, the father escaped from the window like a coward leaving his son behind.

the terr0rists even shot a couple of rounds towards the father, but he ran away

Frustrated brave mujahids, ch0pped up the neck of the 11 yr old kid

The army teams probably thought that the father has escaped along with the kid so they backed off.

The mother of the kid repeatedly asked local SP and Coy cmdr to let her speak to the terrorists. As she knew the 'mujahids' well and they weren't bad people and that they will release the kid upon being requested.

So the army took her along with them inside the house and the terr0rists asked her to come and see her son. So she went near the room and saw the body of her son lying down. Upon seeing this she ran away and was taken down.

Using drones the army confirmed, the boy was dead.

and then the room was blew up using IED's

I think it was a completely logical decision by the officers to let her talk with them as the terrorists were the one's to let her go and she was happily staying with them for the past 2 weeks.

the 3rd rescue attempt was almost a complete success had the father not left behind his son.

The room layout was very simple, just a door for entry which connects it the staircase and a window (quite like the pic I have attached). One terrorist was probably guarding the door while one was guarding the window.

They had good stores of 7.62 ammo, grenades and even a fking Thuraya SAT phone.

We have seen operators risking their all to save civilians in Pampore,View attachment 16405 I don't know what makes you believe that they didn't do it here.

after the operation that mfking family did not even said a word against those Paki pigs. All they could do was accuse the army on indirectly killing their boy in interviews.

Seeing the family's loss, the local magistrate asked the police to drop off all charges against that family for helping terrorists with stay and food.

The police compensated them with money to build a new house and other freebies

Hajin Encounter: The Complete Story

by Saima Bhat Follow Us OnG-News | Whatsapp SRINAGAR: Late Friday evening heart-wrenching videos surfaced on social networking sites showing a mother, Shareefa Bano appealing militants on a loudspeaker to leave her minor son Atif Mir, 12, who was held hostage by them. Atif was killed in the...

kashmirlife.net

Looks like thats how it went.

 

[Airborne22]

So let me tell you something which the officer did not clarify in the podcast.

This incident is from Mir Moholla, Hajin, 2019
Combined op of 13 and 31 RR

This family that was 'trapped' in the house was present with the terrorists for past two weeks. They were being fed and served well by that family. The locals even spotted that 11 year old boy playing football with those Paki tangos in their compound.

They were hardcore OGW's who were in contact with the Lashkar handlers in Pak.

While staying in that house one of the terrorist fell for the daughter (19) of the 60 year old father, so the father sent away his daughter to their relatives. So the tension builded up when the terrorists got to know about it.

So when the CASO started near the house the terrorists wanted the family to stay with them but they resisted.

When the forces tried to get the civies out from the house, the terrorists themselves sent away the mother and other ladies out but kept the father and son.

In the second room intervention attempt by 31 RR, they were fired upon being spotted and it failed.

In the 3rd attempt to rescue while the terr0rists engaged the army, the father escaped from the window like a coward leaving his son behind.

the terr0rists even shot a couple of rounds towards the father, but he ran away

Frustrated brave mujahids, ch0pped up the neck of the 11 yr old kid

The army teams probably thought that the father has escaped along with the kid so they backed off.

The mother of the kid repeatedly asked local SP and Coy cmdr to let her speak to the terrorists. As she knew the 'mujahids' well and they weren't bad people and that they will release the kid upon being requested.

So the army took her along with them inside the house and the terr0rists asked her to come and see her son. So she went near the room and saw the body of her son lying down. Upon seeing this she ran away and was taken down.

Using drones the army confirmed, the boy was dead.

and then the room was blew up using IED's

I think it was a completely logical decision by the officers to let her talk with them as the terrorists were the one's to let her go and she was happily staying with them for the past 2 weeks.

the 3rd rescue attempt was almost a complete success had the father not left behind his son.

The room layout was very simple, just a door for entry which connects it the staircase and a window (quite like the pic I have attached). One terrorist was probably guarding the door while one was guarding the window.

They had good stores of 7.62 ammo, grenades and even a fking Thuraya SAT phone.

We have seen operators risking their all to save civilians in Pampore,View attachment 16405 I don't know what makes you believe that they didn't do it here.

after the operation that mfking family did not even said a word against those Paki pigs. All they could do was accuse the army on indirectly killing their boy in interviews.

Seeing the family's loss, the local magistrate asked the police to drop off all charges against that family for helping terrorists with stay and food.

The police compensated them with money to build a new house and other freebies

Thanks for the clarification man

 

[@elite_warriors26]

View: https://x.com/PranjalShi24150/status/1860604319105532107?t=QH1hvyJp21xg2goAVAJdcg&s=19