LCA TEJAS MK-I & MK-IA: News and Discussion

[dumdumdum]

So basically the delay was because our MoD couldn't order the engine orders on time. No strategic planning is there for the defence procurement.
View attachment 28564

Sorry don't agree. GE's statement is in bad faith. They agreed to the timeline, when they signed the contract. Why did they sign the contract when they knew they could not deliver first engine by 2025? If delay from GOI is the reason are we to believe all excuses about Korean supplier etc were bogus?

This is GE playing HAL's playbook, giving excuses after they missed the deadline that they committed to in contract(whatever might be the reasons), not expected from a global giant like GE

 

[Binayak95]

Sorry don't agree. GE's statement is in bad faith. They agreed to the timeline, when they signed the contract. Why did they sign the contract when they knew they could not deliver first engine by 2025? If delay from GOI is the reason are we to believe all excuses about Korean supplier etc were bogus?

This is GE playing HAL's playbook, giving excuses after they missed the deadline that they committed to in contract(whatever might be the reasons), not expected from a global giant like GE

The contract says quite clearly how the delivery would be. And they've kept the contract timelines. The whole issue was raised by several observers, most particularly by Angad Singh, back when the 1A deals were signed.




Its the chors of HAL who were shouting 12 LCA1A a year in bad faith when they knew (and probably counted on there being no engine).

Sad thing is no accountability on HAL because it is the sole provider to the sole customer.

Had it been a pvt company they'd have bought more engines to keep the supply open OR taken up GE's offer of license manufacturing engines here.

Btw the 414 deal is also bearing the same story. It's production is winding down.

 

[randombully]

taken up GE's offer of license manufacturing engines here.

They offered that really?
Is case me to Hal ko gaali Dena Banta Hai.
With 200+ tejas planned we can easily have 60-70% domestic manufacturing of the parts, or even 80%+ given f404 is it's not the latest tech for ge

 

[Virupaksha]

They offered that really?
Is case me to Hal ko gaali Dena Banta Hai.
With 200+ tejas planned we can easily have 60-70% domestic manufacturing of the parts, or even 80%+ given f404 is it's not the latest tech for ge

Well they did intend to locally manufacture the engine but the plan was scrapped during negotiations.

At $43 million each, the Tejas Mark 1A competes in export market

www.ajaishukla.com

"IAF sources indicate that HAL initially submitted a cost estimate of Rs 59,000 crore, which was brought down by the Cost Negotiation Committee by Rs 12,000 crore. In fact, the reason for HAL’s high initial estimate was the IAF’s demand that the Tejas fighter’s engine – the F-404IN engine, built by US firm General Electric (GE) – be manufactured in India with transfer of technology (ToT) from GE."

"Eventually, this plan was dropped due to the high cost demanded by GE for ToT and licence to build the F-404IN engine in India. Buying ready-built engines from GE brought down the project cost by Rs 12,000 crore."

The above source also has price breakdown of the 83 Tejas deal.

 

[dumdumdum]

The contract says quite clearly how the delivery would be. And they've kept the contract timelines. The whole issue was raised by several observers, most particularly by Angad Singh, back when the 1A deals were signed.




Its the chors of HAL who were shouting 12 LCA1A a year in bad faith when they knew (and probably counted on there being no engine).

Sad thing is no accountability on HAL because it is the sole provider to the sole customer.

Had it been a pvt company they'd have bought more engines to keep the supply open OR taken up GE's offer of license manufacturing engines here.

Btw the 414 deal is also bearing the same story. It's production is winding down.

"The contract says quite clearly how the delivery would be. And they've kept the contract timelines." <-- How? As per every source, first 404 was supposed to be delivered in August 2023. Thats what GE committed to. E.g. This is an article that goes as much back as Nov 2023, which talks about India escalating this delay at ministerial level with US.

At India-US 2+2 ministerial dialogue on Friday, India likely to take up F404 engines supply delay

GE Aerospace has already handed over 75 such engines to the manufacturer of the Tejas fighter jets, HAL, post 1986 and an additional 99 F404-GE-IN20 engines, having better thrust, are on order for which the delivery was to commence from August, this year, but has not happened so far, say...

www.thehindubusinessline.com

 

[Spitfire IX]

Had it been a pvt company they'd have bought more engines to keep the supply open OR taken up GE's offer of license manufacturing engines here.

Btw the 414 deal is also bearing the same story. It's production is winding down.

That is a thought - why not order 10 or 20 F414 to ensure that there are some available when Tejas Mk2 goes into production? In case there is a hold up in Indian F414 production.

F/A-18 production may not require more F414 but Gripen E and KF-21 production will require new engines for many years. I forget, is ROK making F414 under licence?

 

[Binayak95]

Well they did intend to locally manufacture the engine but the plan was scrapped during negotiations.

At $43 million each, the Tejas Mark 1A competes in export market

www.ajaishukla.com

"IAF sources indicate that HAL initially submitted a cost estimate of Rs 59,000 crore, which was brought down by the Cost Negotiation Committee by Rs 12,000 crore. In fact, the reason for HAL’s high initial estimate was the IAF’s demand that the Tejas fighter’s engine – the F-404IN engine, built by US firm General Electric (GE) – be manufactured in India with transfer of technology (ToT) from GE."

"Eventually, this plan was dropped due to the high cost demanded by GE for ToT and licence to build the F-404IN engine in India. Buying ready-built engines from GE brought down the project cost by Rs 12,000 crore."

The above source also has price breakdown of the 83 Tejas deal.

as much as i detest shuklaw, this is true. They should have taken that offer up. IAF was right in its assessment that it'd be crucial for Tejas program. imagine we could have had an entire engine line for Tejas, tejas 1a, MWF and who knows maybe a jet powered drone or two....

sigh.

 

[Binayak95]

"The contract says quite clearly how the delivery would be. And they've kept the contract timelines." <-- How? As per every source, first 404 was supposed to be delivered in August 2023. Thats what GE committed to. E.g. This is an article that goes as much back as Nov 2023, which talks about India escalating this delay at ministerial level with US.

At India-US 2+2 ministerial dialogue on Friday, India likely to take up F404 engines supply delay

GE Aerospace has already handed over 75 such engines to the manufacturer of the Tejas fighter jets, HAL, post 1986 and an additional 99 F404-GE-IN20 engines, having better thrust, are on order for which the delivery was to commence from August, this year, but has not happened so far, say...

www.thehindubusinessline.com

I'll try and find Angad Singh's commentary on this from way back when 1A was announced.

But think this too, we have a good 8-10 B series reserve engines, why arent those 1As in IAF service?

Like the ACM said, software and weapons integration is still pending.

 

[Vishnugupt]

UN Generals are biggest TopiBas

First they didn't sign 83 Tejas MK1A contract for 5 years because of high Price quoted by HAL.

Now UN Generals claiming they want to pay more for engine ToT but MoD stopped them.

Chit bhi meri , pat bhi meri...

Some members here portray UN Generals like small kid in a Diaper who knows nothing. Every wrong they do inadvertently.

Truth is, price decrease as IAF dropped logistic support.

Here, Ajay Shukla was saying absolutely different story in 2019.

Tejas production disrupted, as air force sits on proposals

www.ajaishukla.com

 

[dumdumdum]

After an engine is delivered to HAL, how long would it take them to deliver aircraft to IAF? 3-4 weeks? Months?

 

[Azaad]

View: https://youtu.be/xZ2Q2jJRHDw?si=SUFInU3dcszZ7m2s

 

[Spitfire IX]

After an engine is delivered to HAL, how long would it take them to deliver aircraft to IAF? 3-4 weeks? Months?

I don't know. When an engine is delivered, is it then tested before installation? If so, how long does that take? Engines are swapped in a few hours on fighters so I don't see why it should take long to install a new engine.

Main thing is that HAL should be receiving at least one engine a month in 2025 so HAL should be able to roll out one Mk1A a month. I wonder if all 3 assembly plants will be assembling airframes and storing some of them until an engine to complete the aircraft becomes available.

 

[Asmodeus]

Is the Uttam GaAs AESA final option for tejas mk1a??
Why aren't we devloping GaN AESA for next batch (from 41st) if the option is available( even mk2 Radar being smaller will be more powerful).. there are still 2 years before 41st mk1a rolls out..
ANY IDEA why we aren't doing it??? or at the least use mk2's Radar on mk1a...

 

[Satish Sharma Ji]

Is the Uttam GaAs AESA final option for tejas mk1a??
Why aren't we devloping GaN AESA for next batch (from 41st) if the option is available( even mk2 Radar being smaller will be more powerful).. there are still 2 years before 41st mk1a rolls out..
ANY IDEA why we aren't doing it??? or at the least use mk2's Radar on mk1a...

It takes alot of time for testing & certification. Also cost overrun and tbh even the GaAs wasn't ready to put in production until last year. There is no need to make another Gan aesa for Tejas mk1a the mk2s nose cone is smaller than mk1As it can accomodate same radar and ew system. Maybe next 97 might have them. Having mk2s avionics suits in mk1a makes most sense as by that time it would have been almost ready too.

Very high probability of 97mk1As having mk2s radar ew suit and maybe some other sub-systems

 

[Asmodeus]

It takes alot of time for testing & certification. Also cost overrun and tbh even the GaAs wasn't ready to put in production until last year. There is no need to make another Gan aesa for Tejas mk1a the mk2s nose cone is smaller than mk1As it can accomodate same radar and ew system. Maybe next 97 might have them. Having mk2s avionics suits in mk1a makes most sense as by that time it would have been almost ready too.

Very high probability of 97mk1As having mk2s radar ew suit and maybe some other sub-systems

Its the same effort either way.. because you have to re-do almost all the work like assigning proper electric power supply(F414 to F404), integration with EW, weapons, sensors and fusion with core of the aircraft even if its mk2 Radar.. Its better to do new one with more TR modules imo.
Yes, certification and testing takes time but we have 2 years and 4 vendors now... Its time we take ourselves seriously, keep heads down and work hard instead of looking up all the time and saying there is too much to do...

 

[Patriots]

View: https://x.com/SWAC_IAF/status/1900210144941629795
Tejas deployed in Af stn nalia gujarat, front line deployed, it's foc tejas
But cant see the weapon s