LCA TEJAS MK-I & MK-IA: News and Discussion

What a colossal ef up the management team has done with LCA. engine requirement was known since decades and they had decades of time to procure the engines in advance to mitigate the already delayed project. But they played a goggly here and now have nothing but to wait and watch while Squadron strangth is dwindling to ground.
HAL/GOI deserves the tagma of Hila-le-Pakistan.
@Ayan Barat Does anybody know what is the status of Mk1 project? and if it too along with Mk1A is being delayed due to engine issue?
There is no accountability of PSU nor the MoD procurement nor the procurement side of IAF. All want to just point fingers
IAF : HAL/ADA should get the engine part / engine order/delivery game right, then we will place orders
HAL : Let IAF first place orders, we will then think about placing ordersfor engines
And so on and on...
 
All want to just point fingers
Even though that is true. Here's my hypothesis, Someone higher at the IAF level got healthy amounts of Bejamin Franklin dose to de-link Kaveri from Tejas.
Now, Govt will not give funds because they see it as Academic project which has no practical use.
DRDO/GTRE see govt as technically illiterate as they are not familiar with problems faced during devlopement which take time to solve.
IAF will blame Govt for not taking timely decisions.. Its a very well laid out plan.
 
Even though that is true. Here's my hypothesis, Someone higher at the IAF level got healthy amounts of Bejamin Franklin dose to de-link Kaveri from Tejas.
Now, Govt will not give funds because they see it as Academic project which has no practical use.
DRDO/GTRE see govt as technically illiterate as they are not familiar with problems faced during devlopement which take time to solve.
IAF will blame Govt for not taking timely decisions.. Its a very well laid out plan.

Kaveri right now is the weight of F414 & produces the thrust of 300 kg lighter M88.

It's of no consequence right now. We should move on to the newer 110kN design
 
Kaveri right now is the weight of F414 & produces the thrust of 300 kg lighter M88.

It's of no consequence right now. We should move on to the newer 110kN design
That is same as saying petrol/diesel cars are of no consequences.. New upcoming companies should move on to electric cars! The problem with that is you have no proven design for car, whether the car turns properly, all safety and emergency procedures work properly or even you car can go top speed is not proven. Then you come with new electric car and it has shitload of problems from excessive air-drag to inconsistant breaking.

THe point is one cannot move on to next step when the technology needed for previous step is not mastered! Imagine asking jio if you cannot provide 5g to customers well forget it then lets provide them with 6g yeah?? who will wait for 6g to buy jio simcards?? most people will shift to airtel and upgrade when 6g comes. Same thing is happening with Kaveri.
 
Kaveri right now is the weight of F414 & produces the thrust of 300 kg lighter M88.

It's of no consequence right now. We should move on to the newer 110kN design
If scema or any foreign jet engine company can help us ....in reducing the weight and increasing the thrust ,we should go for it blindly .....without a second thought as this can be used by tejas .

China bought the j10 design from Israel ....now china builds different jet engines ....
 
That is same as saying petrol/diesel cars are of no consequences..

No. It's like considering a old inefficient & heavy engine design from Ambassador we're stuck to while the world has moved on.

THe point is one cannot move on to next step when the technology needed for previous step is not mastered!

Maybe yes. If M88 based engine is being developed with Snecma then it may hit the 1000kg-100kN goal, but it'll not be this Kaveri.
 
If scema or any foreign jet engine company can help us ....in reducing the weight and increasing the thrust ,we should go for it blindly .....without a second thought as this can be used by tejas .

China bought the j10 design from Israel ....now china builds different jet engines ....
No one will give you knowhow. Why would someone create a competitor to oneself?
 
No one will give you knowhow. Why would someone create a competitor to oneself?

Snecma actually has a motive. They have only 80kN class engines not 100kN class. It's one is being jointly developed by Indian money, they'll also stand to gain.

They have M88-3 of 80-93kN thrust & M88-4 of 95-105kN thrust variants under proposals. We're trying to get onboarded
 
From what I read above Kaveri is a non-starter because the design means the engine is much too heavy. Sounds like Mk1A is stuck with F404 unless a very different engine is designed, which would mean 10(?) more years before an Indian 85kN(?) turbofan went into production.
 
Snecma actually has a motive. They have only 80kN class engines not 100kN class. It's one is being jointly developed by Indian money, they'll also stand to gain.

They have M88-3 of 80-93kN thrust & M88-4 of 95-105kN thrust variants under proposals. We're trying to get onboarded
Snecma can get to M88-4 on its own with what research they have. Anyway they can get inspiration from across channel EJ200 to get M88 4

Rich (BB code):
<table>
  <tr>
    <th>Feature</th>
    <th>Eurojet EJ200</th>
    <th>Kaveri</th>
    <th>Snecma M88-2</th>
  </tr>
  <tr>
    <td>Type</td>
    <td>Low-bypass turbofan</td>
    <td>Afterburning turbofan</td>
    <td>Afterburning turbofan</td>
  </tr>
  <tr>
    <td>Thrust (with afterburner)</td>
    <td>20,000 lbf (90 kN)</td>
    <td>80 kN</td>
    <td>16,620 lbf (73 kN)</td>
  </tr>
  <tr>
    <td>Thrust (without afterburner)</td>
    <td>13,500 lbf (60 kN)</td>
    <td>48 kN</td>
    <td>10,971 lbf (49 kN)</td>
  </tr>
  <tr>
    <td>Manufacturer</td>
    <td>EuroJet Turbo GmbH</td>
    <td>Gas Turbine Research Establishment (GTRE)</td>
    <td>Safran Aircraft Engines</td>
  </tr>
  <tr>
    <td>Applications</td>
    <td>Eurofighter Typhoon</td>
    <td>HAL Tejas, DRDO Ghatak</td>
    <td>Dassault Rafale</td>
  </tr>
  <tr>
    <td>First Run</td>
    <td>1991</td>
    <td>1996</td>
    <td>1990</td>
  </tr>
  <tr>
    <td>Dimensions</td>
    <td>Length: 4 m, Diameter: 0.74 m</td>
    <td>Length: 3.51 m, Diameter: 0.89 m</td>
    <td>Length: 3.53 m, Diameter: 0.69 m</td>
  </tr>
  <tr>
    <td>Number of Stages</td>
    <td>LPC: 3, HPC: 5, HPT: 1, LPT: 1</td>
    <td>LPC: 3, HPC: 6, HPT: 1, LPT: 1</td>
    <td>LPC: 3, HPC: 5, HPT: 1, LPT: 1</td>
  </tr>
  <tr>
    <td>Thrust-to-Weight Ratio</td>
    <td>9:1</td>
    <td>~7.8:1</td>
    <td>7.3:1</td>
  </tr>
  <tr>
    <td>Inlet Temperature</td>
    <td>1,800°C</td>
    <td>1,482°C</td>
    <td>1,570°C</td>
  </tr>
  <tr>
    <td>Weight</td>
    <td>1,000 kg</td>
    <td>1,180 kg</td>
    <td>890 kg</td>
  </tr>
  <tr>
    <td>Modular Design</td>
    <td>Yes</td>
    <td>Yes</td>
    <td>Yes</td>
  </tr>
  <tr>
    <td>Advanced Technologies</td>
    <td>Single-crystal turbine blades, blisk design</td>
    <td>Twin spool, flat rated characteristics</td>
    <td>Blisk design, ceramic coatings, composite materials</td>
  </tr>
</table>
 
Snecma can get to M88-4 on its own with what research they have. Anyway they can get inspiration from across channel EJ200 to get M88 4

Rich (BB code):
<table>
  <tr>
    <th>Feature</th>
    <th>Eurojet EJ200</th>
    <th>Kaveri</th>
    <th>Snecma M88-2</th>
  </tr>
  <tr>
    <td>Type</td>
    <td>Low-bypass turbofan</td>
    <td>Afterburning turbofan</td>
    <td>Afterburning turbofan</td>
  </tr>
  <tr>
    <td>Thrust (with afterburner)</td>
    <td>20,000 lbf (90 kN)</td>
    <td>80 kN</td>
    <td>16,620 lbf (73 kN)</td>
  </tr>
  <tr>
    <td>Thrust (without afterburner)</td>
    <td>13,500 lbf (60 kN)</td>
    <td>48 kN</td>
    <td>10,971 lbf (49 kN)</td>
  </tr>
  <tr>
    <td>Manufacturer</td>
    <td>EuroJet Turbo GmbH</td>
    <td>Gas Turbine Research Establishment (GTRE)</td>
    <td>Safran Aircraft Engines</td>
  </tr>
  <tr>
    <td>Applications</td>
    <td>Eurofighter Typhoon</td>
    <td>HAL Tejas, DRDO Ghatak</td>
    <td>Dassault Rafale</td>
  </tr>
  <tr>
    <td>First Run</td>
    <td>1991</td>
    <td>1996</td>
    <td>1990</td>
  </tr>
  <tr>
    <td>Dimensions</td>
    <td>Length: 4 m, Diameter: 0.74 m</td>
    <td>Length: 3.51 m, Diameter: 0.89 m</td>
    <td>Length: 3.53 m, Diameter: 0.69 m</td>
  </tr>
  <tr>
    <td>Number of Stages</td>
    <td>LPC: 3, HPC: 5, HPT: 1, LPT: 1</td>
    <td>LPC: 3, HPC: 6, HPT: 1, LPT: 1</td>
    <td>LPC: 3, HPC: 5, HPT: 1, LPT: 1</td>
  </tr>
  <tr>
    <td>Thrust-to-Weight Ratio</td>
    <td>9:1</td>
    <td>~7.8:1</td>
    <td>7.3:1</td>
  </tr>
  <tr>
    <td>Inlet Temperature</td>
    <td>1,800°C</td>
    <td>1,482°C</td>
    <td>1,570°C</td>
  </tr>
  <tr>
    <td>Weight</td>
    <td>1,000 kg</td>
    <td>1,180 kg</td>
    <td>890 kg</td>
  </tr>
  <tr>
    <td>Modular Design</td>
    <td>Yes</td>
    <td>Yes</td>
    <td>Yes</td>
  </tr>
  <tr>
    <td>Advanced Technologies</td>
    <td>Single-crystal turbine blades, blisk design</td>
    <td>Twin spool, flat rated characteristics</td>
    <td>Blisk design, ceramic coatings, composite materials</td>
  </tr>
</table>

Can you fix the coding?It is not displaying correctly.
 
Snecma can get to M88-4 on its own with what research they have. Anyway they can get inspiration from across channel EJ200 to get M88 4
No need of EJ200 : M53 made the same job, with older tech, but same design.
It is more possible that Eurojet Gmbh had a look to M53 than the contrary....
 
Snecma actually has a motive. They have only 80kN class engines not 100kN class. It's one is being jointly developed by Indian money, they'll also stand to gain.

They have M88-3 of 80-93kN thrust & M88-4 of 95-105kN thrust variants under proposals. We're trying to get onboarded
No really.
M88 was studied from scratch with 3 thrust :
75KN, well known.
90KN : at least a prototyp was built and tested.
105KN : never built, but studied.

With the technology refresh, it is clear that the 75, 90 and 105KN can today be improved. So a range from 75 to... 115/120KN probably.

The SCAF prototyp (if built) will use a M88 derivative, so probably in the higher thrust of all.

For Rafale F5 a new engine, called T Rex, is on the agenda. With something betwwen 85 to 90KN. 85KN may use the actual air intakes of Rafale. 90KN ???
 
Last edited:
Snecma actually has a motive. They have only 80kN class engines not 100kN class. It's one is being jointly developed by Indian money, they'll also stand to gain.

They have M88-3 of 80-93kN thrust & M88-4 of 95-105kN thrust variants under proposals. We're trying to get onboarded

French will be needing GE aka american blessing and inputs to even stretch M88 series to 100+ region.
Their whole jet engine tech is based on GE turbo fan tech infusion in 70s & 80s.

Even chinese got some tech base for their engine from GE during thr love dove phase with Americans when US was propping China against Soviets ..

France although more independent in Military industry but keep this in mind they benefit from large Euro and American tech base to their own MIC..

India needs to build its:

1. Aerospace testing base (Infusion of atleast 20 billion in 5 years phases

2. Source machining tools by hook and crook and invest similar amount in 5 year plans as above

3. Build or enable own private players infusing technology knowhow support again in 5 year plans

4. most important dont build planes based on IAF wishlist but build planes around the engines you can manufacture
 
Last edited:

Latest Replies

Featured Content

Trending Threads

VPN-HSL-250-X250
Back
Top