LCA TEJAS MK-I & MK-IA: News and Discussion

[Spitfire IX]

How what about engine ??

Wasn't the latest info that 2 would be delivered in March?

 

[TopWatcher]

Wasn't the latest info that 2 would be delivered in March?

Wasn't the latest info that 2 would be delivered in March?

Nothing,

 

[Spitfire IX]

According to idrw, L&T has automated drilling of about two thirds of the 8000 holes required in Mk1A wing set construction, reducing the time required per hole from about 25m-35m to 1m. Nominally that drops the time needed to drill those 8000 holes by nearly two thirds - a massive improvement.

Being prepared to invest in that kind of production technology is just what is needed from the companies involved in manufacturing aircraft for the IAF.

L&T Automates LCA-Tejas Wing Drilling, Cuts Time by 95%+ – Indian Defence Research Wing

idrw.org

 

[Spitfire IX]

Nothing,

Here's the source for the March F404 x 2 delivery story

HAL to Receive First Two F-404 Engines from GE Aviation in March 2025 Amidst Further Delays – Indian Defence Research Wing

idrw.org

But with Trump in charge in the US, who knows what is going on. If he thinks he can gain some leverage over India by stalling F404 delivery, he will sure as hell do that, won't he?

 

[TopWatcher]

Here's the source for the March F404 x 2 delivery story

HAL to Receive First Two F-404 Engines from GE Aviation in March 2025 Amidst Further Delays – Indian Defence Research Wing

idrw.org

But with Trump in charge in the US, who knows what is going on. If he thinks he can gain some leverage over India by stalling F404 delivery, he will sure as hell do that, won't he?

Here said HAL is to receive, will any information that HAL actually got the engine!

 

[Migflug]

View: https://youtu.be/4d5VsbJHhaM

 

[Azaad]

Here's the source for the March F404 x 2 delivery story

HAL to Receive First Two F-404 Engines from GE Aviation in March 2025 Amidst Further Delays – Indian Defence Research Wing

idrw.org

But with Trump in charge in the US, who knows what is going on. If he thinks he can gain some leverage over India by stalling F404 delivery, he will sure as hell do that, won't he?

Here said HAL is to receive, will any information that HAL actually got the engine!

The Defence Secretary Mr Rajesh Kumar Singh in a recent interview with Shereen Bhan of CNBC clarified that all pending issues with GE pertaining to supplies of the F-404 TFs have been resolved , the deliveries of which will be thus -

FY 2025-26 -> 12 TFs
FY 2026-27 -> upto 18 TFs
FY 2027-28 -> > 20 TFs.

The order signed between HAL & GE in the first quarter of 2021 was expected to start deliveries from 2023 onwards ( which GE didn't comply with ) with the entire order executed by Mar 2029.

As per the current timelines , GE is expected to execute the entire order for 99 nos F-404 TFs by Mar'30.

Then there's the additional order for 97 nos Mk-1a due to be signed before the end of this financial year expected to be assembled by a FAL set up by the Pvt Sector in a JV with HAL (?) which is to say if this JV issues an order for 97 + x nos of spare TFs on GE by say Mar or Apr 2026 , will execution of this order impinge on the supply of 99 nos F-404 TFs to HAL ?

 

[Spitfire IX]

The Defence Secretary Mr Rajesh Kumar Singh in a recent interview with Shereen Bhan of CNBC clarified that all pending issues with GE pertaining to supplies of the F-404 TFs have been resolved , the deliveries of which will be thus -

FY 2025-26 -> 12 TFs
FY 2026-27 -> upto 18 TFs
FY 2027-28 -> > 20 TFs.

The order signed between HAL & GE in the first quarter of 2021 was expected to start deliveries from 2023 onwards ( which GE didn't comply with ) with the entire order executed by Mar 2029.

As per the current timelines , GE is expected to execute the entire order for 99 nos F-404 TFs by Mar'30.

Then there's the additional order for 97 nos Mk-1a due to be signed before the end of this financial year expected to be assembled by a FAL set up by the Pvt Sector in a JV with HAL (?) which is to say if this JV issues an order for 97 + x nos of spare TFs on GE by say Mar or Apr 2026 , will execution of this order impinge on the supply of 99 nos F-404 TFs to HAL ?

Unless a legal entity to receive an order exists, how can 97 be ordered this FY? I thought that the next FY started 1st April.

 

[vin pahadi (kumauni)]

we r quite sure about with in visual range fight of our aircrafts...thats why we choose 5 different WVR missiles:- derby, r73, mica (RF nd IR version), python 5 nd ASRAAM. yet we didnt include MAWS in any our aircrafts yet, which only present in rafale. these MAWS can give warning of infrared based enemy WVR missiles. how we will detect enemy WVR missiles or even SAMS (like spyder hv python missiles) who use infrared sensor like passive method. now i hv one qus:-
1:- can our su30 mki based infrared sensor detect enemy WVR missiles??? technically they should detect missiles heat, but i know they cant. thats why seprate MAWS present in aircrafts.

pakistan already included MAWS in their jf17 block 3, so light nd small tejas should hv also space to include it. i know we can use pod based MAWS, but it use harpoint. that is very few in light fighters. we didnt include MAWS even in our SU 30 MKI,,,meanwhile Malaysia included south africa based MAWS in their su 30.

why we didnt give importance to MAWS? do our airforce didnt acknowledge its importance? or they think our aircraft will only face beyond visual range fights. than why so many WVR missiles?

same case with towed decoys. which is best option to counter enemy radar frequency based BVR nd WVR missiles.

 

[Azaad]

Unless a legal entity to receive an order exists, how can 97 be ordered this FY? I thought that the next FY started 1st April.

I meant FY-26 i.e 1st Apr 2025 - 31st Mar 2026.

 

[Vishnugupt]

we r quite sure about with in visual range fight of our aircrafts...thats why we choose 5 different WVR missiles:- derby, r73, mica (RF nd IR version), python 5 nd ASRAAM. yet we didnt include MAWS in any our aircrafts yet, which only present in rafale. these MAWS can give warning of infrared based enemy WVR missiles. how we will detect enemy WVR missiles or even SAMS (like spyder hv python missiles) who use infrared sensor like passive method. now i hv one qus:-
1:- can our su30 mki based infrared sensor detect enemy WVR missiles??? technically they should detect missiles heat, but i know they cant. thats why seprate MAWS present in aircrafts.

pakistan already included MAWS in their jf17 block 3, so light nd small tejas should hv also space to include it. i know we can use pod based MAWS, but it use harpoint. that is very few in light fighters. we didnt include MAWS even in our SU 30 MKI,,,meanwhile Malaysia included south africa based MAWS in their su 30.

why we didnt give importance to MAWS? do our airforce didnt acknowledge its importance? or they think our aircraft will only face beyond visual range fights. than why so many WVR missiles?

same case with towed decoys. which is best option to counter enemy radar frequency based BVR nd WVR missiles.

Our giga intelligent UN Generals believe that MAWS have very high false alarm rate which make it almost useless.

Russia has lost many aircraft in Ukraine simply because not having MAWS.

So may be Russian generals has said above theory to UN Generals on dinner table.

 

[randombully]

Our giga intelligent UN Generals believe that MAWS have very high false alarm rate which make it almost useless.

Russia has lost many aircraft in Ukraine simply because not having MAWS.

So may be Russian generals has said above theory to UN Generals on dinner table.

Older maws did had relatively high false alarm rate.
"Older"
But even with those false alarm it's better than no maws.
The new ir sensors used in DAS/MAWS can accurately see the "image" and identify the types of objects it's obersving whether it's a missile, helicopter, fighter jet etc, put these new ir sensors all around aircraft and you get a 360° DAS.

 

[Vishnugupt]

Older maws did had relatively high false alarm rate.
"Older"
But even with those false alarm it's better than no maws.
The new ir sensors used in DAS/MAWS can accurately see the "image" and identify the types of objects it's obersving whether it's a missile, helicopter, fighter jet etc, put these new ir sensors all around aircraft and you get a 360° DAS.

You are talking sense which is strictly forbidden by UN Generals. They know only buy this, buy that.
Quality over quantity... Blah blah.

Now they have nothing. Neither quality not quantity.

I have heard India have to pay 8 billion for 26 Rafale M which is equal to 104 Tejas MK1A aircrafts.

 

[Hari Sud]

DRDO should be re-organized soon

Sick and tired to listening to positive and negative news about LCA and AMCA. All the positive news is press releases by DRDO and all negative news are from critics. Blame is purely Babu management of DRDO. They first mislead then blame others for mismanagement.

Why did Modi stop short of reorganizing DRDO last year. That was an error. It should have been done pronto. Critical projects should have non DRDO management. Force accountability, discipline and responsibility. Reward good work. Dump the seniority system. Use only competence to promote. Remove incompetent people.

 

[randombully]

You are talking sense which is strictly forbidden by UN Generals. They know only buy this, buy that.
Quality over quantity... Blah blah.

Now they have nothing. Neither quality not quantity.

I have heard India have to pay 8 billion for 26 Rafale M which is equal to 104 Tejas MK1A aircrafts.

Na, it's more like 80mk1a aircraft, but yeah that's the premium you have to pay if you don't have other options that can give you the same capability at cheaper price, along with cost of weapons, spares, training and additional infrastructure, dassult is already filled with orders, so no desperation for orders which gives them an advantage in negotiation, and if we want faster deliveries and don't want deliveries to start after 2030s( rafale production rate is full right now, need to increase it) we again have to pay premium, then again premium for our weapons and subsystems to be integrated with rafaleM.


You can't use tejasmk1a or even naval tejas from aircraft carrier as a fighter jet( too low payload and range)
Plus rafale's close coupled canards and large delta wing design gives it a very impressive lift to weight to compactness ratio, which is quite desirable for carrier fighters, specially "stobar" carriers like our.

The only other option we had was super hornet, Whose payload and range performance imo can be expected to be somewhat lower than rafale from our stobar carriers, plus it being larger in size means less no. Of fighters On our carriers, US Will also be very reluctant to integrate indian weapons and subsystems on it, and no guarantee that price will be cheaper, given new infra from ground up will need to be established.

That's another advantage of indigenous systems, we can aquire them at relatively lower cost than foreign systems, so higher value per unit of money spent.
And we can also use rupees for majority of their values, instead having to use dollars from forex.

 

[Vishnugupt]

Indian defence industry is suffering because of UN Generals shortsightedness.

When you plan aircraft carrier you also plan aircraft as well. One has to think 20 years ahead in planning.

Instead of planning UN Generals has wasted their time by saying buy this ( mirage), buy that (Rafale). Most of time public support UN Generals as well.

Once people see China start flying next generation machine/weapons then people wake up and says "what the fuck DRDO is doing?" Basically public also have UN Generals mentality.

Suddenly everyone has started talking about Engine and AMCA when they saw Chinese 6th generation fighter became airborne. Before that buy rafale with 100% TOT.

Today Indian produce all sorts of artillery guns but how many Army inducted?? Zero. Next time China will bring more sophisticated artillery then again people will say "what the fuck DRDO is doing??" Babu ka MB

 

[randombully]

DRDO should be re-organized soon

Sick and tired to listening to positive and negative news about LCA and AMCA. All the positive news is press releases by DRDO and all negative news are from critics. Blame is purely Babu management of DRDO. They first mislead then blame others for mismanagement.

Why did Modi stop short of reorganizing DRDO last year. That was an error. It should have been done pronto. Critical projects should have non DRDO management. Force accountability, discipline and responsibility. Reward good work. Dump the seniority system. Use only competence to promote. Remove incompetent people.

Sick and tired to listening to positive and negative news about LCA and AMCA

Aaye? All the negatives I heard are "outside the control" of drdo, so how will restructuring drdo it solve those?
Will it make the ge404 engine delivery faster?
Will it make the jv for amca engine faster?
Will it make private companies showing more interest in amca?
Will it make sure the ccs approval which is under pm and his council comes faster?
All these things are outside the scope of drdo.

They first mislead then blame others for mismanagement

Alright, can provide me one example?

Critical projects should have non DRDO management.

First, which other company/organisation has the capabilities to develop those systems except drdo? Private companies can't even develop a propeller aircraft by themselves forget fighter jet, it's only now that some aerospace "manufacturing"( not development) capabilities are being nurtured in private sector.

Force accountability, discipline and responsibility. Reward good work. Dump the seniority system. Use only competence to promote. Remove incompetent people.

DRDO employs the Flexible Complementing Scheme (FCS), under which promotions from Scientist ‘B’ through to Scientist ‘H’ (and beyond) are determined by performance evaluations, including annual performance reports and assessment boards. It allows even junior scientists to be promoted if they demonstrate exceptional competence, while those who do not meet performance benchmarks are not advanced.

There are only few orignizations(both private and gov.) As merit based as drdo and Isro.




None of the problems we are facing comes from structure of drdo.
Restructuring drdo will not magically create a 50k ton press that we are developing for amca.

 

[randombully]

Indian defence industry is suffering because of UN Generals shortsightedness.

When you plan aircraft carrier you also plan aircraft as well. One has to think 20 years ahead in planning.

Instead of planning UN Generals has wasted their time by saying buy this ( mirage), buy that (Rafale). Most of time public support UN Generals as well.

Once people see China start flying next generation machine/weapons then people wake up and says "what the fuck DRDO is doing?" Basically public also have UN Generals mentality.

Suddenly everyone has started talking about Engine and AMCA when they saw Chinese 6th generation fighter became airborne. Before that buy rafale with 100% TOT.

Today Indian produce all sorts of artillery guns but how many Army inducted?? Zero. Next time China will bring more sophisticated artillery then again people will say "what the fuck DRDO is doing??" Babu ka MB

Lots of that UN General thing you mentioned, have changed.
But the fruits of these changes will only start appearing 10-15 years later.
So 2035 and beyond.
Right now the least amount of changes are seen in army, but they are also seeing changes, albit lot more slower that desirable.

For example, current indian military operates the highest percentage of indigenous systems in its history, and that indigenous percentage Is increasing every year, we have lot more progress left to make in coming decades but we are making it slowly.

So Don't be too much blackpilled, these level of changes takes years to show even minor results.

 

[Vishnugupt]

Lots of that UN General thing you mentioned, have changed.
But the fruits of these changes will only start appearing 10-15 years later.
So 2035 and beyond.
Right now the least amount of changes are seen in army, but they are also seeing changes, albit lot more slower that desirable.

For example, current indian military operates the highest percentage of indigenous systems in its history, and that indigenous percentage Is increasing every year, we have lot more progress left to make in coming decades but we are making it slowly.

So Don't be too much blackpilled, these level of changes takes years to show even minor results.

Which next Generation Tank army is designing??
Which next generation BMP and amphibious vehicle army is designing??
Which Assault Rifles is army designing??
Which ATGM army is designing??

2035 will come in next 10 years. Meanwhile designing, prototype development and trials alone take 15 years.

It's not blackpilling, it is a state of our armed forces

 

[randombully]

Which next Generation Tank army is designing??
Which next generation BMP and amphibious vehicle army is designing??
Which Assault Rifles is army designing??
Which ATGM army is designing??

2035 will come in next 10 years. Meanwhile designing, prototype development and trials alone take 15 years.

It's not blackpilling, it is a state of our armed forces

Which next Generation Tank army is designing??

Ngmbt/FRCV has been in development for years already.
You can go through these threads to see the work done.
Or this video


View: https://youtu.be/-RkXKvUyLaQ?si=w5E86d8ihVVadW7V
This guy most likely lurked in this or similar forums to get these info.
Indigenous Datran 1500hp engine, also successfully fired and testing is continuing.

Which next generation BMP and amphibious vehicle army is designing??

FICV, is also in development for years, prototype will be seen in few years

View: https://x.com/wartrophy_414/status/1810266580783419444
The pics in that poster, are of actual prototype hull undergoing trails and testing.

Which Assault Rifles is army designing??

Now this area is where import happened most, but in this case i won't blame army seeing the state of quality of ofb's, these ofb's actually need major restructuring/closure/privatization.
But
Ak203 deal already happened, sig 716 already Bought.
So future rifle requirement is fulfilled

Which ATGM army is designing??

Drdo has developed 4 different types of atgms NAAg, Helina etc.

Meanwhile designing, prototype development and trials alone take 15 years.

We are already at early prototyping stage of these things, designing is done.