Modernisation of Indian Army Infantry

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR · Sunday at 2:56 PM

VictorDelta4 said:
The armour/Mech Inf boys look straight out of 1971.
View attachment 18023

The lower half in black and white will look like 1971 Dhaka victory.

Ayan Barat · Sunday at 7:50 PM

GodEmperorDoom said:
NLAW

First thing first I don't know from where you got this NLAW thing or who are these guys completely mesmerized by NLAWs but NLAW is definitely not for that sector. Weapons are never a do-all thing, they're designed for just one specific purpose and as you change roles, it's effectiveness starts to deviate. Submarines are excellent for second strike but try using one for air defence.

NLAW is not an "ATGM", was never meant to be one. NLAW is more like an improved RPG.
• Javelin is 22.5kg, ranged 4km and cost $600k per shot...proper ATGM
• LAW-80 was 9kg, ranged 0.5km and used to be $3.5 per shot (98)...unguided disposable rocket
• NLAW is 12.5kg, ranged 0.8km and cost $27k for one shot...see, how it's closer to an unguided rocket than an ATGM

The scenario where it's supposed to be used are forests of Europe or dense cities where the maximum LOS is around 1km, in Himalayas the LOS can go tens of kilometres...if you use an NLAW here then you'd just give a good laugh to PLA soldiers. Himalayas is where even long ranged ATGMs like Javelins start to suffer and you truly feel the need for NLOS weapons.

To get a rough idea about things you need in that sector and in what numbers we can look at PLA because sadly they seem to be tad bit more serious about a possible engagement than us.

• HJ-10, 10km
• HJ-16, 5km
• HJ-12, 4km
Compared to our
• Nag, 4km range
• Konkurs-M, 4km
• MP-ATGM, 2.5km

Even more important is the number of ATGMs expected in one Chinese CAB and one Indian IBG. There's no accurate way of guessing the exact numbers but based on things like the fact that Nag is carried only by NAMICA where as atleast four different platforms have sported HJ-10 so far and what we currently see in our BMP + dismount ORBAT, it's safe to assume they'd be bringing in lot more ATGMs with a good chunk of them being longer ranged. And all this is ignoring the fact that they have a significant headstart in terms of Anti-Tank drones which are both longer ranged and also more numerous.

As for what against PLA armour, I had this long discussion with Binayak Sir once...you can go through it for all the pros and cons of that one specific idea

A

Post in thread 'Indian Army Armored Vehicles'

Sep 20, 2024

The scenario is countering Chinese tanks in high altitude battlefields.

Convince me how a single Zorawar LT is better than having four Mahindra ALSV, each armed with 16 long range ATGMs.

GodEmperorDoom · Sunday at 8:08 PM

Ayan Barat said:
First thing first I don't know from where you got this NLAW thing or who are these guys completely mesmerized by NLAWs but NLAW is definitely not for that sector. Weapons are never a do-all thing, they're designed for just one specific purpose and as you change roles, it's effectiveness starts to deviate. Submarines are excellent for second strike but try using one for air defence.

NLAW is not an "ATGM", was never meant to be one. NLAW is more like an improved RPG.
• Javelin is 22.5kg, ranged 4km and cost $600k per shot...proper ATGM
• LAW-80 was 9kg, ranged 0.5km and used to be $3.5 per shot (98)...unguided disposable rocket
• NLAW is 12.5kg, ranged 0.8km and cost $27k for one shot...see, how it's closer to an unguided rocket than an ATGM

The scenario where it's supposed to be used are forests of Europe or dense cities where the maximum LOS is around 1km, in Himalayas the LOS can go tens of kilometres...if you use an NLAW here then you'd just give a good laugh to PLA soldiers. Himalayas is where even long ranged ATGMs like Javelins start to suffer and you truly feel the need for NLOS weapons.

To get a rough idea about things you need in that sector and in what numbers we can look at PLA because sadly they seem to be tad bit more serious about a possible engagement than us.

• HJ-10, 10km
• HJ-16, 5km
• HJ-12, 4km
Compared to our
• Nag, 4km range
• Konkurs-M, 4km
• MP-ATGM, 2.5km

Even more important is the number of ATGMs expected in one Chinese CAB and one Indian IBG. There's no accurate way of guessing the exact numbers but based on things like the fact that Nag is carried only by NAMICA where as atleast four different platforms have sported HJ-10 so far and what we currently see in our BMP + dismount ORBAT, it's safe to assume they'd be bringing in lot more ATGMs with a good chunk of them being longer ranged. And all this is ignoring the fact that they have a significant headstart in terms of Anti-Tank drones which are both longer ranged and also more numerous.

As for what against PLA armour, I had this long discussion with Binayak Sir once...you can go through it for all the pros and cons of that one specific idea

A

Post in thread 'Indian Army Armored Vehicles'

Sep 20, 2024

The scenario is countering Chinese tanks in high altitude battlefields.

Convince me how a single Zorawar LT is better than having four Mahindra ALSV, each armed with 16 long range ATGMs.

Ayan Barat

People should read entire message. I asked in Scenario dismounted troops carrying ATGM Capability. Do you think you can carry that 10-Km range missile? I specifically mentioned 2 Soldiers to make it understand. They can strap on a Agni on a Mahindra ASLV, that's not what my concern is. Can you provide ASLV to all Soldiers deployed? All my question is about what is better in Man Portable Scenario. SpikeER2/TOW/Kornet/HJ-10 with 10-Km range are not carried as like in Javelin/SpikeLR2/Akeron.

VictorDelta4 · Sunday at 8:13 PM

Ayan Barat said:
NLAW is not an "ATGM", was never meant to be one. NLAW is more like an improved RPG.

The only RPG I simp for

Ayan Barat · Sunday at 8:21 PM

GodEmperorDoom said:
People should read entire message.

Touché Monsieur

Ayan Barat said:
in Himalayas the LOS can go tens of kilometres

Ayan Barat said:
Himalayas is where even long ranged ATGMs like Javelins start to suffer and you truly feel the need for NLOS weapons.

Ayan Barat said:
• HJ-10, 10km

Ayan Barat said:
HJ-10

Ayan Barat said:
them being longer ranged

Ayan Barat said:
16 long range ATGMs

So TLDR

• No matter whether it's a single NLAW to each dismounted soldier or distributed Javelin CLU and tubes among them; they'll still struggle defeating the "overmatch" PLA would have on them. There's no cover in Himalayas and digging trenches in frozen ground can feel like the worst punishment from Garud Puran. A Soldier up there is already struggling with low oxygen, arctic gears and increase ammo weight (7.62 Vs 5.56) so no matter how light weight ATGM (like NLAW) you give to a soldier you'll just increase his burden without much advantage.

• Adding NLOS ATGMs on lightweight platform to engage enemy armour before you start to come inside their 10km HJ-10 envelope is the most viable solution.

Ayan Barat · Sunday at 8:27 PM

VictorDelta4 said:
The only RPG I simp for
View attachment 18037

Go home kid, let the grown-ups handle it

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wj9J6o0yaD0&pp=ygUnQWZnaGFuaXN0YW4gbXVqYWhpZGVlbiByb2NrZXQgbGF1bmNoaW5n