Operation Sindoor & Aftermath (257 Viewers)

[silentassassin265]

There aren't many places where you can hide your jets, once operation starts missiles will pound every corner of faujiland, plus even hitting and decimating airbase and it's facilities will deal great damage to paf's operational capacity, then there is the fact that bombing terror bases render lauch pads unusable and halt further recruitment. Keep in mind we can also hit radar stations and Hqs .

Ukraine is following similar strategy, they are not keeping large bases and keeping the army decentralised.
Russia is unable to bombard Ukraine army as they don't know where to hit.

 

[eastern_bhartiya]

Ukraine is following similar strategy, they are not keeping large bases and keeping the army decentralised.
Russia is unable to bombard Ukraine army as they don't know where to hit.

But where is Ukrainian airforce then, Ukraine airforce without (of even with) western support is a complete non-factor. Yes pakis can move thier jets to some location, but then they can't use them, which leaves other assets vulnerable.

Ukraine is also much wider than pakistan, Russian also lacks PGM. What you have said has been done by pad already, they went completely mute after 7th May night, we didn't see them do much in 8th,9th and then after attempting strike at Delhi/Sirsa, IAF decided to bomb their bases,
What was paf doing all this time ? A weapon that cannot be used, is not a weapon at all.

Moving their assets only makes sense,if they can somehow take them out hiding fast enough an scramble them to retaliate. UAF has done practically nothing in the those Russo-ukrainian war.

 

[Tumba]

View: https://x.com/hellfire_81/status/1941190291253559800

All kinds of scenarios are war gamed by military both manually and through usage of AIRAWAT and PARAM…

I am pretty sure everything from above to an alien attack also gamed multiple times with different variables.

Only problem with these war games are the more you start restraining the more chances of nuclear war becomes…

India was pretty much restraining in Op Sindoor, which provided pakis and chinis lots of PR to play with.

A 100 strike on taking down all 20 or so C4 stations of pakis and AWACS would have make them completely blinded to whatever chinis wants to feed them.

All of the 20 C4 are within 200 kms of Indian border, we fckinh took only the Nur Khan one rest of C4 are smaller and pretty easy to take out…

This would have solves the problem of any chini support or any further strikes by pakis on India. …

 

[Nibbler]

Having to decide on this in just 30 seconds created a dangerously rushed situation…people on this side could have misunderstood it, triggering the first nuclear weapon that could spark a global nuclear war

lol this is just nuclear fear-mongering/blackmail which they are trying to rebuff after we called it out.

Why is there no mention by livemint of our NFU policy?


View: https://x.com/derekjgrossman/status/1940823389800964173?s=46

What nuclear response does pakishite have that has a 30 second turn around time.

Determine after bramhos hits. That's the best you can do

 

[vampyrbladez]

Ukraine is following similar strategy, they are not keeping large bases and keeping the army decentralised.
Russia is unable to bombard Ukraine army as they don't know where to hit.

Pakistan's greatest weakness is it's geography. They don't have friendly neighbors who would supply them during a war unlike Ukraine (which has Poland as a hub to ship NATO weapons).

Iran was NOT providing Pakistan with Shahed drones during Operation Sindoor however we saw nearly 600+ Turkish Songar and YIHA-III drones being used. Iran and Pakistan also had their very own conflict in 2024.

As for Afghanistan, the less said the better. Afghan Taliban are using the Pakistan Taliban as proxies to rain havoc in KPK and making the region ungovernable by Punjabi Pakistanis.

During Operation Sindoor, Pakistanis were hit across the length and breadth of the country which has since been confirmed using high definition satellite imagery.



Meanwhile their ability to hit us back is laughable because of how integrated and functional our Air Defence (IACCS) was compared to their joke of a system.




If you can strike at will across the length and breadth of Pakistan where will they hide their planes which loitering munitions and BrahMos, SRBM, HAMMER, SCALP, LORA, etc can't find? If India had upped the ante, in next 2-3 days we would have wiped clean their entire air force's 'force in being' since they can't hide near Iran and Afghanistan.

In that case, PAF would likely have fled to Iraq and Turkey to seek protection from US.

Next you use the Indian Navy's INS Vikrant CBG to hit Karachi, Gwadar and Omara and it's game over for their military and civilian supplies. Their ability to fight back is gone.

Yes 1 EMB-145 and 1 saab2000

This is result from this scenario

- HQ9BE was not available so gave them HQ9B, which performed better than I expected and scored multiple MIG-29K and a UAV kill. MIG29K only had R77 in this simulation, it was subpar v/s AIM120C5 and P15E.
- MIG-29K tried to challenge first PAF counter attack but 2 of them were shot down (1 by PL-15E and 1 by AIM-120C5). Rest were shot down by HQ9B during initial defense and later Rampage attacks. I avoided defense by MIG-29K subsequently and let PAF launch their volleys.
- 12x Jaguar were used too and none were downed/damaged. Harpoon claimed 2x ships.
- SU30MKI were used for CAP and .
- Klubs (ship launched) and KH-35 were not that effective. But they were heavily used in the first volley. They got depleted and were not really available for later rounds.
- 1 block-2 IA SSM regiment (total 15 missiles) around Bhuj and it targeted Karachi port and refinery. It destroyed the refinery and there was 1 hit on pier/port.
- 1 Babur SSM regiment (total 16 missiles) SSM regiment was placed around Karachi. It launched all 16 missiles at Jamnagar refinery. Made it past S400 which didn't launch on it, all 16 missiles were intercepted (most of them close to Jamnagar) by AD guns & Spider SAM (python 5) placed next to refinery and Akash (from Jamnagar Airbase) to a limited extent.
- Both IAF and PAF used AAM missiles to shoot down subsonic missiles like Babur & KH35.
- IN opening volley was not as effective as I would have thought. There was no surprise as Pakistan MPAs and AEW&CS (also ELINT) detected launches pretty quickly. Quite a bit of interceptions happened in the first round and only 1 PN ship was sunk in this. It was the second round and later where more and more brahmos started leaking through and sinking ships.
- Submarine units were added but I wasn't able to make them launch anti-ship or land attack missiles.
- IN MH60R were performing ASW operations.
- KA31 AEW was effective

Conclusion
- PN surface fleet sunk
- Karachi port destroyed
- Ormara port hit and likely destroyed (I messed up by not setting medium/large pier size)
- Karachi refinery destroyed
- Karachi HQ9B regiment destroyed
- Hits on Karachi and Bholari airbases. Was not able to launch Rampages on Pasni as MIG29K didn't have enough fuel range.
- IN CBG and SAGs were able to intercept all threats. Still have around 40% of Barak8/MRSAM left.
- In terms of terminal velocity:
= 2.175 mach at tree top level
CM400 = 2.4 mach when diving down (not ideal flight profile for Ashm, it is more akin to KH22)



This was the setup
View attachment 42082
View attachment 42083

Once you factor in the abrogation of the IWT, their ability to farm and supply themselves is at critical risk. India has simply taken advantage of being the upper riparian neighbor to force compliance from Pakistan.

Pakistan's only remaining hope therefore is to make India bleed using a campaign of proacted attrition with it's military and canal system to turn any land incursion into a meatgrinder.




All India needs to do is simply maintain a naval and air blockade with the IWT held in abeyance while ignoring Western (US/ NATO) pressure and sanctions and Chinese pressure and military threats. As days turn into weeks into months into years, their ability to fight will degrade and they will lose control over parts of their territory due to internal strife.

India will simply bide it's time and when Pakistan's ability to wage war has been exhausted, simply move in and takeover POK and pretty much anything you like, even 'straighten out' the map.

All of this is highly reliant on neutralizing the Pakistani nuclear arsenal as quickly as possible while you have your BMD integrated and ready to takeout any stragglers and tactical nukes heading towards your cities.

There is a reason why Pakistan has suddenly become so quiet. Given the above reasoning, it would be fair to say that any 'action' could come from Bangladesh instead.

 

[Nibbler]

From sipri newest report

 

[RocketMan]

The only outcome of 120 F-35s will be kit & kin of some baboons and top vayu officers getting permanent positions in US think tanks along with media & social influencers getting foreign junkets in name of expos and conferences. At best, we will get some screw drivergiri and MAY get some satellite pics of Chinese movements if Chinese haven`t offered Amrika enough hafta to stay of it already.

We are neither Jews nor is China Iran for US to interfere like they do for their favorite child Israel or their bastard child, the Na-Pakis.

Folks on this forum forget China has 1000x industrial capacity of Iran, 10000x industrial capacity of Pakis, 10x our Industrial capacity and are ahead of us in cutting edge software like AI. In all out war, we`ll be pummelled with instrusions of drone swarms in six figures and missile salvos totaling 5 figures before their 3rd / 4th / 5th / 6th gen jets even make a appearance

F-35s will be as useful in such scenarios as rolls royce or current day range rovers would be off-road. Okay for few days outing, but wont survive prolonged exposure to wild

China's manufacturing capacity is 5x that of India , not 10x . India will be 3rd largest manufacturer by 2030 easily.

 

[eastern_bhartiya]

Redirect Notice

While we're discussing china's involvement, this is the news. FM would be visiting on from 13-15 for sco. Safe to say that things will probably remain quite till then.

 

[Tumba]

China's manufacturing capacity is 5x that of India , not 10x . India will be 3rd largest manufacturer by 2030 easily.

What matters is kind of manufacturing here, chinese has very high share of hi technology export items

 

[iNorthernerOn9]

Can't resist posting this.


View: https://x.com/hellfire_81/status/1941192790303703045?t=ZM6N-3SjVgHtDkThacy9ug&s=19

Is he also an astrologer? Bcoz the timing he is predicting is 'near' accurate in astrological sense... more accurate would be 18th to 23rd July.

 

[eastern_bhartiya]

Can't resist posting this.


View: https://x.com/hellfire_81/status/1941192790303703045?t=ZM6N-3SjVgHtDkThacy9ug&s=19

Is he also an astrologer? Bcoz the timing he is predicting is 'near' accurate in astrological sense... more accurate would be 18th to 23rd July.

View attachment 42260

I mean , I won't use astrology of all things to predict an military action, but jaishankar will be on China visit from 13-15 this month that could mean something

 

[randombully]

CEP is an issue with BMs. The best BMs we possess has 30m CEP at optimal angle.

30m CEP is more than enough.

We posses all the base to develop a highly accurate BM if required.

 

[silentassassin265]

30m CEP is more than enough.

We posses all the base to develop a highly accurate BM if required.

Cep of bm have improved dramatically as guidance system have become more cheaper and compact.
We are seeing lot more air launched mb now
Rudram
Rocks
Rampage
Lora

 

[randombully]

Cep of bm have improved dramatically as guidance system have become more cheaper and compact.
We are seeing lot more air launched mb now
Rudram
Rocks
Rampage
Lora

Indeed
But,Were talking about CEP of an possible agni5 based bunker buster, with a heavy 8 ton re-entry warhead.

 

[MasterChief]

based on what he is saying, there is equal chance that pakis were getting live inputs from pentagon as well during that particular phone call. based on what is in public so far, chini haven't shown any interest publicly in stopping this escalation, muricans did.

The deputy COAS coming out in the open , alleging chinese live intelligence inputs to Pakistan during Operation Sindoor.. maybe an effort by India to get clarity on how much live operational input was being provided by the Chinese, or whether US also provided these inputs to Pakistan.
Afterall Pakistan is still a major non NATO Ally of US. India is not..
He said 4 adversaries, then 3 .. was America left out ..

 

[Cereal Killer]

What's the point of this again? Is Rudram 2/3 not coming? Import lobby strikes or what?

View: https://x.com/Varun55484761/status/1941087708312703095?t=s83g0vPggak_4eEDH79VgA&s=19

 

[snakeeyes07]

What's the point of this again? Is Rudram 2/3 not coming? Import lobby strikes or what?

View: https://x.com/Varun55484761/status/1941087708312703095?t=s83g0vPggak_4eEDH79VgA&s=19

I think given the current security situation time is of essence. LORA can fill in immediate requirement till RUDRAM 2/3 are inducted. With 2 front conflict becoming more and more certain, there is ample space for both LORA and RUDRAM 2/3 (especially given their ARM role).

I had say additional Israeli munitions which were very successful in SEAD/DEAD against Iran should be procured off the shelf as well to fill up immediate requirements.

 

[snakeeyes07]

What's the point of this again? Is Rudram 2/3 not coming? Import lobby strikes or what?

View: https://x.com/Varun55484761/status/1941087708312703095?t=s83g0vPggak_4eEDH79VgA&s=19

Also what's the difference in capabilities between ROCKS and Air LORA? I believe ROCKS has already been inducted in IAF as Crystal Maze 2.

 

[randombully]

I think given the current security situation time is of essence. LORA can fill in immediate requirement till RUDRAM 2/3 are inducted. With 2 front conflict becoming more and more certain, there is ample space for both LORA and RUDRAM 2/3 (especially given their ARM role).


I had say additional Israeli munitions which were very successful in SEAD/DEAD against Iran should be procured off the shelf as well to fill up immediate requirements.

Lora's is bigger missile with bigger warhead.
570 kg warhead.
1.6 ton weight
~400km range, cep ~10m

Rudram 2 &3 are designed to have 200-250kg warhead. And more difficult to intercept flight path

 

[sunnyv]

Air Lora is being pursued because of range, functionality in an GPS denied environment and amount of warhead in a single vector. In addition ALBM is an excellent choice against an adversary which has AD structured with SRSAD and MRSAM instead of air-defence dominated by BMD/LRSAM and High Altitude SAM Interceptors. While Porkis may not have High altitude interceptors at this moment first strike with ALBM would be highly effective against them. But in case of adversary like Chongs with High altitude interceptors first strike with Terrain hugging CMs would be highly effective. Anyways all these are theoretical scenarios actual ground defence goes for a SIX once a proper SEAD / DEAD is done by an adversary. IAF would rely on mix of Loitering munition, CMs and BMs for a HVT. Perhaps Rawalpindi Command HQ is being shifted to an underground facility after OP Sindoor for this precise reason.