Operation Sindoor & Aftermath (295 Viewers)

theprint.in

Micro-blogging platform X withholds Reuters primary handle in India acting on legal demand

Musk-owned ‘X’ in a statement in May underlined its ‘disagreement’ with Indian government, saying ‘in most cases it has not specified which posts from an account have violated India’s local laws’.
theprint.in theprint.in

Looks like another Baboo scheme to prevent foreign propaganda outlets from being blocked during even wartime.

The way this would work is
> Reuters files case in SC
> Meelards give some freedom of speech ruling which sets a precedent
> In future foreign media handles cannot be blocked in country whatever the cause.
 
shade2 said:
It's also pointless dalali

What do they want instead?
AGM-88 HARM?
KH-31?
Click to expand...
They like systems that are already tested.
Completeled captive trails, and user trails simulating wartime scenarios, even better if tested in war itself.
It's not about Capability, it's about the weapon performing as promised and not having malfunction etc.

With domestic systems, they have go through Years long process of testing the weapons themselves, as

In Phoren systems another airforce already done the extensive work, and they can just buy it.
But again, integration with our diverse fleet is a problem with phoren systems, as seen in many recent examples.
But Israelis already went through extensive efforts to make their systems easy to integrate in our fleet( except rafale).
So in case of phoren, especially israeli systems, IAF doesn't need to be part of developmental process, Don't have to do the hard work, can just buy an already "proven" system.
 
randombully said:
If further delay in user trails **doesn't** happen, then user trails can be concluded in late 2025-early 2026.
With "limited series production" starting in late 2026-early 2027.

Due to delays in user trail, rudram 1 and 2 will have their production start at similar time.


In "User trails" IAF tests the missiles in "realistic wartime scenarios".
So it's not just attaching a missile, flying and firing it, as done in validation trails.

The modified su30mki testbed for user trails was delayed until late 2024.
The modified testbed is modified for all three rudram 1,2,3 missiles.
Su30 mki was given for modifications in late 2023.
So IAF delayed in providing testbed to be modified for a year when captive trails for rudram 1 were completed in 2022, and it took approx an entire year to modify a su30 just to become compatible with another missile.
So user trails began in late 2024.

So that's basically the saga of rudram 1 induction delay by 2-3 years than expected.
Further delays are further possible🙃.
Click to expand...
Looks like DAC clearance is all hogwash then :ghelyon:

View: https://x.com/AjayshreeSamby3/status/1941762175011287059?t=8moc-QYfd82yCUY0RrHVfA&s=19
 
randombully said:
They like systems that are already tested.
Completeled captive trails, and user trails simulating wartime scenarios, even better if tested in war itself.
It's not about Capability, it's about the weapon performing as promised and not having malfunction etc.

With domestic systems, they have go through Years long process of testing the weapons themselves, as

In Phoren systems another airforce already done the extensive work, and they can just buy it.
But again, integration with our diverse fleet is a problem with phoren systems, as seen in many recent examples.
But Israelis already went through extensive efforts to make their systems easy to integrate in our fleet( except rafale).
So in case of phoren, especially israeli systems, IAF doesn't need to be part of developmental process, Don't have to do the hard work, can just buy an already "proven" system.
Click to expand...

Thanks for explaining the "Buy from 5 places" mindset saar

btw one such proven SCALP missile was on it's way to Sargodha, had a malfunction and fell in a field.
 
shade2 said:
theprint.in

Micro-blogging platform X withholds Reuters primary handle in India acting on legal demand

Musk-owned ‘X’ in a statement in May underlined its ‘disagreement’ with Indian government, saying ‘in most cases it has not specified which posts from an account have violated India’s local laws’.
theprint.in theprint.in

Looks like another Baboo scheme to prevent foreign propaganda outlets from being blocked during even wartime.

The way this would work is
> Reuters files case in SC
> Meelards give some freedom of speech ruling which sets a precedent
> In future foreign media handles cannot be blocked in country whatever the cause.
Click to expand...

WE DINDU NUFFIN SAAAR

www.indiatoday.in

No directive from us: Government on blocking Reuters X account in India

The Centre clarified that no such request to block Reuters's X account was made and said it is working with the microblogging site to resolve the issue.
www.indiatoday.in www.indiatoday.in

:facepalm4:
 
snakeeyes07 said:
I am going to run a IAF-PAF simulation across Punjab, Jammu and some part of Rajasthan area.
PAF
20x J-10C
25x JF-17 blk3 with PL15E loadout
18x JF-17 blk3 with PL12 loadout
12x JF-17 blk3 with CM400AKG loadout
8x F16 blk52
2x HQ16 [Lahore & Sialkot]
2x Spada 2000 [Mianwali, Murid]
1x HQ9B [Nur Khan] - Does anybody know the location of other HQ9B from open source, maybe Sargodha?
1x Babur SSM regiment
1x DF11 SSM regiment
2x Saab 2000 AEW&C
1x JY27A radar

IAF
40x SU30MKI Astra mk1 loadout
10x SU30MKI Brahmos loadout
30x MIG29UPG
12x Rafale Meteor loadout
12x Tejas MK1 DCA
12x Mirage 2000 MICA loadout DCA
4x Rafale Scalp loadout
1x Brahmos SSM regiment
1x Agni 1 SSM regiment (roleplaying as Pralay)
1x EMB-145
1x Phalcon
1x S400 [Adampur]
1x IAF Akash [Adampur, Halwara]
1x MRSAM [Bathinda, Sirsa]
2x SA-3 [Bathinda, Sirsa]
1x IA Akash [Jalandhar]
4x Spyder [Amritsar, Jammu, Pathankot, Halwara]
1x P8I

Will give 8 airbases to India (no fighter ops from Amritsar, Jammu, Pathankot). Will give 6 airbases to Pakistan, Rafiqui, Sargodha, Nur Khan, Mianwali (no fighter ops from Lahore and Murid)

In this scenarios air-to-air and air-to-surface engagements will happen simultaneously. In later round, cruise missile (SSM regmts) will open up and followed by BM if losses are very skewed on one side.

Any suggestions?
@randombully
@mist_consecutive
@vampyrbladez
Click to expand...
Setting up IAF right now - I might lower fighter numbers on both both sides proportionately as it is getting chaotic. Still need to add more SU30MKI and MIG29UPG for AA. Also few of LCA FOC (I can add mk1a as well) and Mirage 2000 for DCA.

Currently, I have 8x SU30MKI protecting AEW&CS and LAC. 12 Rafale with 4x meteor each in 6 flights of 2 each

The scenario is that IAF is starting the campaign by conducting strikes on Nur Khan, Sargodha, Shorkot airbases and GHQ. IAF Bases are all on alert with AD network established and active.

PAF J-10s, JF17s and F-16s will be in the air in significant numbers to try and deter Indian strike packages and score kills.

In subsequent simulations, I can see how addition of R-37M and LORA (roleplaying as Rudram) changes things.


IAF Strike package is:
6x Rafale with 2x Scalp EG each
12x SU30MKI with 1x Brahmos each

There are 2 IA Brahmos regiments, one in Punjab and other in Udhampur, but they will not open in the first round.
Click to expand...
Ran this IAF vs PAF scenario.
I gave veteran capability/level to both IAF and PAF same as the naval simulation.

- Both sides were very effective in kinematically defeating most BVRs. Both sides lost 3 fighters each in BVR engagement. No SAMs scored fighter kills on both sides.
- Quite a bit of Indian and most of Pakistan tactical missile attacks were intercepted.
- IAF scored some kills with brahmos, LORA and Scalp EG:
=> destroyed JY-27 in Pakistani Punjab
=> destroyed TPS-77 radar in Nur Khan and Sargodha
=> destroyed HQ-9B unit in Sargodha
=> destroyed GHQ Rawalpindi
=> Hits on Sargodha, Rafiqui and Nur Khan airbase infra with no loss of aircraft on ground
- For Pakistan side, M-7 (DF-7) roleplayed as CM-400 attacks (similar flight profile and terminal speed) because CM400 is only ship attack in CMO. 33 M-7 missiles were fired at Adampur & Halwara, targets were the infra, SAM systems (S400, Barak-8) and Radars (like THD-1955 and ELM-2084 MPR) on these bases. 3 missiles made it through and struck Adampur infra causing 5.5% damage and no aircraft loss on ground. Babur missile were all intercepted with AAM, Akash & Barak-8.
- In this simulation, re IAF AA capability Rafale [Meteor] > SU30MKI [Astra mk1] > Mig29UPG [R77]

I am going to run this again later, one thing I will change for sure is to put only Meteor loadout on all 18x Rafales instead of putting Scalp EG on 6x Rafales (especially for the initial/inception stage). These missiles are pretty slow do not have the saturation effect as Brahmos and LORA as these arrive on target much faster.

SIDE: IAF
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------
1x Rafale C
2x Su-30MKI Flanker H


EXPENDITURES:
------------------
7x AA-12 Adder A [R-77, RVV-AE]
24x Akash
44x Astra Mk1
54x Barak 8
12x Generic Chaff Salvo [4x Cartridges]
8x I-Derby ER
10x LORA
48x Meteor
2x MICA EM
2x MICA IR
30x PJ-10 BrahMos Blk II [Land-Attack]
16x PJ-10 BrahMos-A
2x Python 5
1x Python 5 [SPYDER-SR]
48x SA-21a Growler [48N6DM]
8x SCALP EG



SIDE: PAF
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------
2x 30mm China LD-2000 [Type 730]
1x Building (Very Large Leadership Compound)
10x HQ-9B TEL
1x J-10CE Firebird
2x JF-17C Thunder Blk 3 [FC-1]
2x Radar (AN/TPS-77)
1x Radar (China JY-27A)
2x Vehicle (China HT-233)
1x Vehicle (China YLC-2V)


EXPENDITURES:
------------------
16x 30mm China H/PJ-12 [Type 730, 240 rnds]
23x AIM-120C-5 AMRAAM P3I.2
18x Aspide 2000
107x CH-AA-10 Abaddon [PL-15E]
8x CH-AA-9 [PL-10]
33x CSS-8 [M-7]
2x Generic Chaff Salvo [4x Cartridges]
32x Hatf 7 [700kg HE Conventional, Babur]
32x HQ-16A [SA-17 Semi-Copy]
32x HQ-9A
64x HQ-9B

1751792018196.webp
1751792038965.webp
 
Last edited:
What's the practical solution to prevent military grade satellites from snooping on our bases?
 
Cheepek said:
What's the practical solution to prevent military grade satellites from snooping on our bases?
Click to expand...
In the CMO simulation, I gave Pakistan access to all Chinese satellites, their IR satellites detected IAF missile over India and provided approximate location/telemetry of it.
 
Cheepek said:
What's the practical solution to prevent military grade satellites from snooping on our bases?
Click to expand...
Asat missiles for hardkill. Also Laser dazzlers for blinding satellites. We can also try to take down their C2 center as soon as possible.
 
randombully said:
They like systems that are already tested.
Completeled captive trails, and user trails simulating wartime scenarios, even better if tested in war itself.
It's not about Capability, it's about the weapon performing as promised and not having malfunction etc.

With domestic systems, they have go through Years long process of testing the weapons themselves, as

In Phoren systems another airforce already done the extensive work, and they can just buy it.
But again, integration with our diverse fleet is a problem with phoren systems, as seen in many recent examples.
But Israelis already went through extensive efforts to make their systems easy to integrate in our fleet( except rafale).
So in case of phoren, especially israeli systems, IAF doesn't need to be part of developmental process, Don't have to do the hard work, can just buy an already "proven" system.
Click to expand...

Let's say I am running a firm supplying defense equipment to our forces. I built a product and expect our forces to buy it and use it in combat. Now I am a newbie so my weapon may not be 100% upto the standard required by our forces. If they reject me outright, all the money I have put into R & D has gone to waste. This is not a product I can sell it to civilians or even other countries without approval from MEA. So I have to close shop. If they give a opportunity and place limited orders, during the course of time I can take feedback from them and improve my product gradually.

This way jobs are created, money stays within the country, capacities and capability is built within the country. No need to run to other countries and beg for weapon sells. But IAF and IA assholes expect your technology to be top notch right from the get go. They keep changing requirements intentionally to reject it. This can only happen not because foreign product is better but mainly to get kickback in their foreign accounts from arms dealers. If you don't even give opportunity to private players how do you expect to build indigenous military industrial complex within the country? If I were defense minister I would shove the indigenous weapons down the throat of our forces and if they reject it I would ask them to go home. If not for Parikkar there would be no Tejas today. He saw through the BS of IAF right away.
 
redpanda said:
Asat missiles for hardkill. Also Laser dazzlers for blinding satellites. We can also try to take down their C2 center as soon as possible.
Click to expand...
Hard kill measures are escalatory, idk how feasible but can we inform the Chinese beforehand that we will shoot down their satellites if they try to snoop during war
It will be a double-edged sword; they will shoot our satellites as well when they want to deny us
 
snakeeyes07 said:
In the CMO simulation, I gave Pakistan access to all Chinese satellites, their IR satellites detected IAF missile over India and provided approximate location/telemetry of it.
Click to expand...
Something like this
7/4/2025 5:19:11 AM - [PAF] New contact! Designated VAMPIRE #365 - Detected by Wenchang-1 02 [Sensors: Generic Satellite IR Camera] at 344deg - 1338.2nm

7/4/2025 5:19:11 AM - [PAF] New contact! Designated VAMPIRE #366 - Detected by Wenchang-1 02 [Sensors: Generic Satellite IR Camera] at 344deg - 1340nm

7/4/2025 5:19:11 AM - [PAF] New contact! Designated VAMPIRE #367 - Detected by Wenchang-1 02 [Sensors: Generic Satellite IR Camera] at 344deg - 1345nm

7/4/2025 5:19:11 AM - [PAF] New contact! Designated VAMPIRE #368 - Detected by Wenchang-1 02 [Sensors: Generic Satellite IR Camera] at 344deg - 1343.7nm
Click to expand...
7/4/2025 5:19:16 AM - [PAF] Contact: VAMPIRE #367 has been positively identified as: SCALP EG #605 - Determined as: Hostile (ID by: Wenchang-1 01 [Sensor: Generic Satellite IR Camera] at 1401.9 nm)
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Cheepek said:
Hard kill measures are escalatory, idk how feasible but can we inform the Chinese beforehand that we will shoot down their satellites if they try to snoop during war
It will be a double-edged sword; they will shoot our satellites as well when they want to deny us
Click to expand...
They certainly will do that in case of a direct war with them.
 
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