Operation Sindoor & Aftermath (481 Viewers)

[redpanda]

WE DINDU NUFFIN SAAAR

No directive from us: Government on blocking Reuters X account in India

The Centre clarified that no such request to block Reuters's X account was made and said it is working with the microblogging site to resolve the issue.

www.indiatoday.in

They gave the order on 7th may and X implemented yesterday after 2 whole month passed. X behaving like sarkari office.

 

[snakeeyes07]

I am going to run a IAF-PAF simulation across Punjab, Jammu and some part of Rajasthan area.
PAF
20x J-10C
25x JF-17 blk3 with PL15E loadout
18x JF-17 blk3 with PL12 loadout
12x JF-17 blk3 with CM400AKG loadout
8x F16 blk52
2x HQ16 [Lahore & Sialkot]
2x Spada 2000 [Mianwali, Murid]
1x HQ9B [Nur Khan] - Does anybody know the location of other HQ9B from open source, maybe Sargodha?
1x Babur SSM regiment
1x DF11 SSM regiment
2x Saab 2000 AEW&C
1x JY27A radar

IAF
40x SU30MKI Astra mk1 loadout
10x SU30MKI loadout
30x MIG29UPG
12x Rafale Meteor loadout
12x Tejas MK1 DCA
12x Mirage 2000 MICA loadout DCA
4x Rafale Scalp loadout
1x SSM regiment
1x Agni 1 SSM regiment (roleplaying as Pralay)
1x EMB-145
1x Phalcon
1x S400 [Adampur]
1x IAF Akash [Adampur, Halwara]
1x MRSAM [Bathinda, Sirsa]
2x SA-3 [Bathinda, Sirsa]
1x IA Akash [Jalandhar]
4x Spyder [Amritsar, Jammu, Pathankot, Halwara]
1x P8I

Will give 8 airbases to India (no fighter ops from Amritsar, Jammu, Pathankot). Will give 6 airbases to Pakistan, Rafiqui, Sargodha, Nur Khan, Mianwali (no fighter ops from Lahore and Murid)

In this scenarios air-to-air and air-to-surface engagements will happen simultaneously. In later round, cruise missile (SSM regmts) will open up and followed by BM if losses are very skewed on one side.

Any suggestions?
@randombully
@mist_consecutive
@vampyrbladez

Setting up IAF right now - I might lower fighter numbers on both both sides proportionately as it is getting chaotic. Still need to add more SU30MKI and MIG29UPG for AA. Also few of LCA FOC (I can add mk1a as well) and Mirage 2000 for DCA.

Currently, I have 8x SU30MKI protecting AEW&CS and LAC. 12 Rafale with 4x meteor each in 6 flights of 2 each

The scenario is that IAF is starting the campaign by conducting strikes on Nur Khan, Sargodha, Shorkot airbases and GHQ. IAF Bases are all on alert with AD network established and active.

PAF J-10s, JF17s and F-16s will be in the air in significant numbers to try and deter Indian strike packages and score kills.

In subsequent simulations, I can see how addition of R-37M and LORA (roleplaying as Rudram) changes things.


IAF Strike package is:
6x Rafale with 2x Scalp EG each
12x SU30MKI with 1x each

There are 2 IA regiments, one in Punjab and other in Udhampur, but they will not open in the first round.

Ran this IAF vs PAF scenario.
I gave veteran capability/level to both IAF and PAF same as the naval simulation.

- Both sides were very effective in kinematically defeating most BVRs. Both sides lost 3 fighters each in BVR engagement. No SAMs scored fighter kills on both sides.
- Quite a bit of Indian and most of Pakistan tactical missile attacks were intercepted.
- IAF scored some kills with brahmos, LORA and Scalp EG:
=> destroyed JY-27 in Pakistani Punjab
=> destroyed TPS-77 radar in Nur Khan and Sargodha
=> destroyed HQ-9B unit in Sargodha
=> destroyed GHQ Rawalpindi
=> Hits on Sargodha, Rafiqui and Nur Khan airbase infra with no loss of aircraft on ground
- For Pakistan side, M-7 (DF-7) roleplayed as CM-400 attacks (similar flight profile and terminal speed) because CM400 is only ship attack in CMO. 33 M-7 missiles were fired at Adampur & Halwara, targets were the infra, SAM systems (S400, Barak-8) and Radars (like THD-1955 and ELM-2084 MPR) on these bases. 3 missiles made it through and struck Adampur infra causing 5.5% damage and no aircraft loss on ground. Babur missile were all intercepted with AAM, Akash & Barak-8.
- In this simulation, re IAF AA capability Rafale [Meteor] > SU30MKI [Astra mk1] > Mig29UPG [R77]

I am going to run this again later, one thing I will change for sure is to put only Meteor loadout on all 18x Rafales instead of putting Scalp EG on 6x Rafales (especially for the initial/inception stage). These missiles are pretty slow do not have the saturation effect as and LORA as these arrive on target much faster.

SIDE: IAF
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------
1x Rafale C
2x Su-30MKI Flanker H


EXPENDITURES:
------------------
7x AA-12 Adder A [R-77, RVV-AE]
24x Akash
44x Astra Mk1
54x Barak 8
12x Generic Chaff Salvo [4x Cartridges]
8x I-Derby ER
10x LORA
48x Meteor
2x MICA EM
2x MICA IR
30x PJ-10 BrahMos Blk II [Land-Attack]
16x PJ-10 BrahMos-A
2x Python 5
1x Python 5 [SPYDER-SR]
48x SA-21a Growler [48N6DM]
8x SCALP EG



SIDE: PAF
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------
2x 30mm China LD-2000 [Type 730]
1x Building (Very Large Leadership Compound)
10x HQ-9B TEL
1x J-10CE Firebird
2x JF-17C Thunder Blk 3 [FC-1]
2x Radar (AN/TPS-77)
1x Radar (China JY-27A)
2x Vehicle (China HT-233)
1x Vehicle (China YLC-2V)


EXPENDITURES:
------------------
16x 30mm China H/PJ-12 [Type 730, 240 rnds]
23x AIM-120C-5 AMRAAM P3I.2
18x Aspide 2000
107x CH-AA-10 Abaddon [PL-15E]
8x CH-AA-9 [PL-10]
33x CSS-8 [M-7]
2x Generic Chaff Salvo [4x Cartridges]
32x Hatf 7 [700kg HE Conventional, Babur]
32x HQ-16A [SA-17 Semi-Copy]
32x HQ-9A
64x HQ-9B

 

[snakeeyes07]

What's the practical solution to prevent military grade satellites from snooping on our bases?

In the CMO simulation, I gave Pakistan access to all Chinese satellites, their IR satellites detected IAF missile over India and provided approximate location/telemetry of it.

 

[redpanda]

What's the practical solution to prevent military grade satellites from snooping on our bases?

Asat missiles for hardkill. Also Laser dazzlers for blinding satellites. We can also try to take down their C2 center as soon as possible.

 

[concard]

They like systems that are already tested.
Completeled captive trails, and user trails simulating wartime scenarios, even better if tested in war itself.
It's not about Capability, it's about the weapon performing as promised and not having malfunction etc.

With domestic systems, they have go through Years long process of testing the weapons themselves, as

In Phoren systems another airforce already done the extensive work, and they can just buy it.
But again, integration with our diverse fleet is a problem with phoren systems, as seen in many recent examples.
But Israelis already went through extensive efforts to make their systems easy to integrate in our fleet( except rafale).
So in case of phoren, especially israeli systems, IAF doesn't need to be part of developmental process, Don't have to do the hard work, can just buy an already "proven" system.

Let's say I am running a firm supplying defense equipment to our forces. I built a product and expect our forces to buy it and use it in combat. Now I am a newbie so my weapon may not be 100% upto the standard required by our forces. If they reject me outright, all the money I have put into R & D has gone to waste. This is not a product I can sell it to civilians or even other countries without approval from MEA. So I have to close shop. If they give a opportunity and place limited orders, during the course of time I can take feedback from them and improve my product gradually.

This way jobs are created, money stays within the country, capacities and capability is built within the country. No need to run to other countries and beg for weapon sells. But IAF and IA assholes expect your technology to be top notch right from the get go. They keep changing requirements intentionally to reject it. This can only happen not because foreign product is better but mainly to get kickback in their foreign accounts from arms dealers. If you don't even give opportunity to private players how do you expect to build indigenous military industrial complex within the country? If I were defense minister I would shove the indigenous weapons down the throat of our forces and if they reject it I would ask them to go home. If not for Parikkar there would be no Tejas today. He saw through the BS of IAF right away.

 

[Cheepek]

Asat missiles for hardkill. Also Laser dazzlers for blinding satellites. We can also try to take down their C2 center as soon as possible.

Hard kill measures are escalatory, idk how feasible but can we inform the Chinese beforehand that we will shoot down their satellites if they try to snoop during war
It will be a double-edged sword; they will shoot our satellites as well when they want to deny us

 

[snakeeyes07]

In the CMO simulation, I gave Pakistan access to all Chinese satellites, their IR satellites detected IAF missile over India and provided approximate location/telemetry of it.

Something like this

7/4/2025 5:19:11 AM - [PAF] New contact! Designated VAMPIRE #365 - Detected by Wenchang-1 02 [Sensors: Generic Satellite IR Camera] at 344deg - 1338.2nm

7/4/2025 5:19:11 AM - [PAF] New contact! Designated VAMPIRE #366 - Detected by Wenchang-1 02 [Sensors: Generic Satellite IR Camera] at 344deg - 1340nm

7/4/2025 5:19:11 AM - [PAF] New contact! Designated VAMPIRE #367 - Detected by Wenchang-1 02 [Sensors: Generic Satellite IR Camera] at 344deg - 1345nm

7/4/2025 5:19:11 AM - [PAF] New contact! Designated VAMPIRE #368 - Detected by Wenchang-1 02 [Sensors: Generic Satellite IR Camera] at 344deg - 1343.7nm

7/4/2025 5:19:16 AM - [PAF] Contact: VAMPIRE #367 has been positively identified as: SCALP EG #605 - Determined as: Hostile (ID by: Wenchang-1 01 [Sensor: Generic Satellite IR Camera] at 1401.9 nm)

 

[fire starter]

Contribution of rectum state in nation building - 0%

Contribution rectum state in anti national activities - 100%

Full literacy saar.

View: https://x.com/jaypanicker/status/1941743709013332040?t=HW9_hh1EjHfL5FNekIgCww&s=19

 

[fire starter]

View: https://x.com/Ray70409890/status/1941765804607013251?t=Inj5eaIcH_Iw_FitGgWW-w&s=19

 

[shade2]

Let's say I am running a firm supplying defense equipment to our forces. I built a product and expect our forces to buy it and use it in combat. Now I am a newbie so my weapon may not be 100% upto the standard required by our forces. If they reject me outright, all the money I have put into R & D has gone to waste. This is not a product I can sell it to civilians or even other countries without approval from MEA. So I have to close shop. If they give a opportunity and place limited orders, during the course of time I can take feedback from them and improve my product gradually.

This way jobs are created, money stays within the country, capacities and capability is built within the country. No need to run to other countries and beg for weapon sells. But IAF and IA assholes expect your technology to be top notch right from the get go. They keep changing requirements intentionally to reject it. This can only happen not because foreign product is better but mainly to get kickback in their foreign accounts from arms dealers. If you don't even give opportunity to private players how do you expect to build indigenous military industrial complex within the country? If I were defense minister I would shove the indigenous weapons down the throat of our forces and if they reject it I would ask them to go home. If not for Parikkar there would be no Tejas today. He saw through the BS of IAF right away.

Supposedly in 70s and 80s some Admiral also discovered this
Check the last portion of the highlighted which says MIG21



This is from one of the now late VAdm GM Hiranandani books

I am still in favor of Govt based push for indegnization tho rather than Service based push like Navy does.

The major bottleneck with the Navy model is your DRDO guys have some type of clout in MoD, so basically till they develop something, or they give up developing, you can't import certain subsystems for a while.

 

[ezsasa]

View: https://x.com/Ray70409890/status/1941765804607013251?t=Inj5eaIcH_Iw_FitGgWW-w&s=19

must be an colourful interpretation or lost in translation, all this while everyone was saying borders were not crossed, and now this.

both can't be true at the same time. better put this statement under "yet to be confirmed" category.

 

[Ajatshatru]

must be an colourful interpretation or lost in translation, all this while everyone was saying borders were not crossed, and now this.

both can't be true at the same time. better put this statement under "yet to be confirmed" category.

Indian drones were flying all over Pakistan — big, small, armed, and unarmed. people mistook them for fighter jets.

 

[randombully]

all this while everyone was saying borders were not crossed

Borders were not crossed on the first Day( few exceptions, aasm hammer of rafale has low range) when ROE was only to target terror hubs.

Subsequent days, it continued to escalate.
We even targeted and hit noorkhan, and Kirana hill near rawalpindi.
As I said before, IAF was legit pissed after day one.

 

[shade2]

must be an colourful interpretation or lost in translation, all this while everyone was saying borders were not crossed, and now this.

both can't be true at the same time. better put this statement under "yet to be confirmed" category.

Jets going into their airspace seems only valid for say Bahawalpur's terrorist sites.

Baaki ka IAF could launch from our airspace onlee.

 

[Ajatshatru]

Borders were not crossed on the first Day( few exceptions, aasm hammer of rafale has low range) when ROE was only to target terror hubs.

Subsequent days, it continued to escalate.
We even targeted and hit noorkhan, and Kirana hill near rawalpindi.
As I said before, IAF was legit pissed after day one.

I think Indian Air Force has a drone we don’t know about — one that’s large enough to deliver bunker buster bombs. Remember, they had the MiG-25 Foxbat in service for years, and nobody knew about it.

 

[redpanda]

View: https://x.com/Parthu_Potluri/status/1941771607111819440

 

[liberalredditor]

View: https://www.reddit.com/r/IndianDefense/comments/1lsxe20/next_match_batting_order_announcement/

 

[shade2]

View: https://x.com/FinestYew/status/1941759921160430048

 

[shade2]

View: https://x.com/Parthu_Potluri/status/1941771607111819440

We can't use Meteor to it's "fullest potential" because Rafale isn't integrated with IACCS as per Gessler here.

So why did they want to buy more all these years?

Did French say they will allow integration if we buy 100 more planes?

 

[shade2]

https://www.telegraphindia.com/world/french-intelligence-china-used-embassies-to-undermine-sales-of-frances-flagship-rafale-fighter-jet/cid/2111715#goog_rewarded

French intelligence China used embassies to undermine sales of France's flagship Rafale fighter jet​

. French air force chief Gen Jerome Bellanger said that he's seen evidence pointing to just 3 Indian losses — a Rafale, a Russian-made Sukhoi and a Mirage 2000, which is an earlier generation French-made jet. It was the first known combat loss of a Rafale, which France has sold to eight countries.

“Of course, all those, the nations that bought Rafales, asked themselves questions,” Bellanger said.

The French equivalent of CAS says Rafale, Su30 and Mirage 2000 shot down

This article is originally by AP.

@BON PLAN your Generol actually said this? what does your local media say?