Operation Sindoor and Aftermath

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Kapil said:
Factually wrong on both counts.

Modi inherited a fatigued economy - one which survived the greatest recession I can remember.
But it was still growing at robust pace.
See chart attached.
View attachment 36336
He did harakiri by doing demonetisation which had a -ve effect on GDP growth rate( chart dips after 2016) and then a messed up GST rollout which further aggravated the MSME sector.

But for COVID, Nirmala tayi had no place to hide. Now she can say act of God sank the economy in 2020. See the curve above, it was already sinking.

So no, I am not giving him a walkover with sweeping generalizations like he inherited bad economy. He inherited a robust economy which was emerging from the recession and he created the economy which he inherited in the 2nd term.


i don't want to go into why 36 Rafales etc, but this is exactly the same mistake which was done by George Fernandez in converting a simple Mirage2000 buy into a MMRCA circus.

If Pakistan can say they will eat grass but fight India, why can't our Govt. take stern measures and do the same. What is the need of feeding 80 crore people grains with his photo on the packet when our AF is short on fighter jets to protect the country, and foot soldiers don't have BPJs and helmets?
Click to expand...
UPA administration was unable to purchase Rafale citing lack of money reason. Modi solved the lack of money problem by immediately implementing demonetization; this is how Rafale purchase was financed initially. Demonetization was good except for those who were engaged in money laundering and other illegal financial activities.
 
Nicky said:
Every US jet will come with stipulations on how it can be used. It would be worse than burning the money. The US has clearly shown it's not reliable. They will use maintenance and parts as leverage for strategic control.

We only have one viable option that is Su57, no matter it's flaws.
Click to expand...
If Russia agrees to ToT, and can expedite, then indigenous manufacturing of Su57 would be the best interim solution until our LCA, AMCA, ORCA, etc are ready.

If Su57 production cannot be expedited then we need to stockpile Pakistan specific SRBMs and China specific IRBMs. Air war with China is going to be very different than air war with Pakistan; our aircrafts will need to enter Chinese airspace and travel long distances before offloading AAMs and ASMs. This will increase the attrition rate.

This is why we need to find an immediate solution to this problem.
 
crazywithmath said:
Pre 2014 lolbert global economic boom cannot be repeated again. It was a period when even the pakroaches were enjoying decent growth. All things concerned, Modi did NOT inherit a 'robust economy'.




This is pure unadulterated BS - a cope that congressis started with but have gone mainsteam since it seems. Demo had negligible impact on Indian economy and became practically irrelevant after 2 quarters - Gita Gopinath even did a paper on this.



Lol, what? GST is not without its own issues but it was and still is a notable improvement over the VAT BS we had before.




The economy was slowing down before the Wuhan virus saga cuz of a banking sector blowup (UPA legacy). You can argue that the incumbent could have handled the situation with more finesse but again, it is nonsensical to blame it on Tai - she was barely into the office and did a commendable job cleaning up the mess and I say this as an ardent critic of Tai.


Again, copium. Economic policies are not instant noodles, they work with time lags. If anything, the robust economic growth in the post Wuhan virus era is the result of all the cleanup and reforms Ji undertook with great political risks in his first term.
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Why showing Govt published figures are suddenly 'congressi'?

Dude, My first vote was for ABV and he became PM of India that year. That's how old a BJP supporter I am. But I am also not blind. Will give credit when due.
Now sine you have used strong words like BS etc:

1. You mention that pre-2014 economic boom cannot be repeated. How and why?

2. In the same breadth, you mentioned that Modiji did not inherit good economy. This directly contradicts your own statement that economy was booming before 2014.

3. Do you have a counter point here on why GDP growth rate sank post 2016? Why was it still dipping before COVID hit us? Just to quote the exact number, Indian economy grew at 3.87% in 2019.

4. Exactly which reforms which reduced the growth rate by 2.5%? Do you know what 2.5% growth rate looks like on the base of a 2T economy?

5. Happy to know that you think GST was a reform. Who opposed "reforms" in 2009? Can you give me names of 2 chief ministers who did this?

6. Do you know Govt stopped publishing NSSO Jobs data in 2019? Do you also know that Govt also stopped its own Jobs surveys for 2016-17 to be published? If this was indeed a problem created by UPA2, Govt. should have published it and blamed on UPA2? Do you even know what this data is used for by researchers, economists and companies?

7. The robust economic growth post COVID was bouyed by excessive demand. That has tapered down now. So 2020 to 2023 was an aberration. Economy has come back to normal growth rate (~6.3%) now.
So what is contributing to this 6.3% growth rate(hint: look at the formula for GDP and see where the money is coming from)?

8. Also, exactly what reforms led to this "stellar" 6.3% growth? Let's take a focus area which is being talked about the most - Mfg. is lowest as a % of economy in 40-50 years. Big reason - industrialist are not doing Capex. Why? What do they know which you don't know?


All data points.

Now if you tell me GDP is not a number and like Bhutan we should be looking at GNH, I am perfectly fine.
 
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Kapil said:
Why showing Govt published figures are suddenly 'congressi'?

Dude, My first vote was for ABV and he became PM of India that year. That's how old a BJP supporter I am. But I am also not blind. Will give credit when due.
Now sine you have used strong words like BS etc:

1. You mention that pre-2014 economic boom cannot be repeated. How and why?

2. In the same breadth, you mentioned that Modiji did not inherit good economy. This directly contradicts your own statement that economy was booming before 2014.

3. Do you have a counter point here on why GDP growth rate sank post 2016? Why was it still dipping before COVID hit us? Just to quote the exact number, Indian economy grew at 3.87% in 2019.

4. Exactly which reforms which reduced the growth rate by 2.5%? Do you know what 2.5% growth rate looks like on the base of a 2T economy?

5. Happy to know that you think GST was a reform. Who opposed "reforms" in 2009? Can you give me names of 2 chief ministers who did this?

6. Do you know Govt stopped publishing NSSO Jobs data in 2019? Do you also know that Govt also stopped its own Jobs surveys for 2016-17 to be published? If this was indeed a problem created by UPA2, Govt. should have published it and blamed on UPA2? Do you even know what this data is used for by researchers, economists and companies?

7. The robust economic growth post COVID was bouyed by excessive demand. That has tapered down now. So 2020 to 2023 was an aberration. Economy has come back to normal growth rate (~6.3%) now.
So what is contributing to this 6.3% growth rate(hint: look at the formula for GDP and see where the money is coming from)?

8. Also, exactly what reforms led to this "stellar" 6.3% growth? Let's take a focus area which is being talked about the most - Mfg. is lowest as a % of economy in 40-50 years. Big reason - industrialist are not doing Capex. Why? What do they know which you don't know?


All data points.

Now if you tell me GDP is not a number and like Bhutan we should be looking at GNH, I am perfectly fine.
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If you need an explainer why the post housing crisis economic boom is going to be hard to replicate you need to stop commenting on economic matters.
Also the whole "I was actually a gorillion year old bjp phull sapporter saar! But now I am bhosadpilled!" stratergy is getting old don't you think? There is plenty of reason to criticize modi, I dont think you need to adopt this whole backstory to get your point across.
You are also divorcing a lot of information from required bureaucratic and global context required to make sense of the decisions.
I doubt you are going to be changing you mind about anything but the least you can do is keep the discussion on topic.
 
LastMythin said:
If you need an explainer why the post housing crisis economic boom is going to be hard to replicate you need to stop commenting on economic matters.
Also the whole "I was actually a gorillion year old bjp phull sapporter saar! But now I am bhosadpilled!" stratergy is getting old don't you think? There is plenty of reason to criticize modi, I dont think you need to adopt this whole backstory to get your point across.
You are also divorcing a lot of information from required bureaucratic and global context required to make sense of the decisions.
I doubt you are going to be changing you mind about anything but the least you can do is keep the discussion on topic.
Click to expand...
Please educate me how exactly the housing boom in US contributed to growth in India and how it cannot be replicated now.
We can take this discussion to economy thread to prevent derailment.
 
A once prolific poster on another forum perceptively remarked that the reason many Indians attack Hindus, the BJP or the Indian government, is that this action makes them feel strong and principled. Instead of admitting the real and major danger from Islamic terror and Pakistan, they resort to the safer tactic of denouncing the Hindu nationalists. By adopting this approach, they don't feel like helpless onlookers to Islamic/Pakistani terrorism, they are on the contrary the big, tough guys or gals standing up to the Hindu groups, who are the ultimate cause of the problem! It's a neat psychological trick in a way, really it's a kind of cowardice masquerading as a tough, uncompromising 'secular' stance.

There are other reasons too, why some Indians are sympathetic to Pakistan and the Islamists. Stockholm syndrome, romanticisation of the enemy( this is usually a sentiment of women, though not exclusively) plus disillusionment or dissatisfaction with the overall state of things in India. Indians need to be watchful of this behaviour in other Indians, and of course in themselves. Be critical of a variety of conditions and tendencies in Indian society, but don't let that blind you into supporting or excusing dangerous external forces.
 
Kapil said:
Why showing Govt published figures are suddenly 'congressi'?
Click to expand...

Did I call you a 'congressi' tho?

Kapil said:
Dude, My first vote was for ABV and he became PM of India that year. That's how old a BJP supporter I am. But I am also not blind. Will give credit when due.
Click to expand...

None of my business, really.

Kapil said:
Now sine you have used strong words like BS etc:

1. You mention that pre-2014 economic boom cannot be repeated. How and why?
Click to expand...

Because the world has turned more protectionist? Because global growth has tanked? Because global trade is declining?

How many emerging nations are growing at 6%+ right now? How many of them were growing at 6% back then?

Kapil said:
2. In the same breadth, you mentioned that Modiji did not inherit good economy. This directly contradicts your own statement that economy was booming before 2014.
Click to expand...

An economy can experience 'mild boom' even with deep structural issues. Also, growth largeley plateaued in UPA 2, they did not have that kind of macro anymore.

What I meant was that UPA gormints had a favorable goobal econ/trade/investment outlook - the sheer inertia, coupled with the reforms undertaken by their predecessors (desipte the UPA gormint staging u-turns on a number of those reforms), alone could propel the economy on autopilot mode. Not the case anymore.

Kapil said:
3. Do you have a counter point here on why GDP growth rate sank post 2016? Why was it still dipping before COVID hit us? Just to quote the exact number, Indian economy grew at 3.87% in 2019.
Click to expand...

That 3.8% figure has been revisioned upward since.

Either way, I did mention the reason, no? The banking sector/bad debt meltdown? Also, the economy did okayish till 2017-18, the fallout became too severe after that only.

Kapil said:
4. Exactly which reforms which reduced the growth rate by 2.5%? Do you know what 2.5% growth rate looks like on the base of a 2T economy?
Click to expand...

Umm, what? When exactly was our growth rate reduced to '2.5%' (barring maybe the covid year)? Kuch bhi?

Kapil said:
5. Happy to know that you think GST was a reform. Who opposed "reforms" in 2009? Can you give me names of 2 chief ministers who did this?
Click to expand...

Lol, this is your counter? That the then opposition party opposed the policy of the then incumbent?

They should not have opposed it btw, braindead move.

Kapil said:
6. Do you know Govt stopped publishing NSSO Jobs data in 2019? Do you also know that Govt also stopped its own Jobs surveys for 2016-17 to be published? If this was indeed a problem created by UPA2, Govt. should have published it and blamed on UPA2? Do you even know what this data is used for by researchers, economists and companies?
Click to expand...

I do not get you. The PLFS data is public even now. Heck, they have even introduced better (and larger) samples and switched to calender year based quarterly updates since. What is the issue?

Kapil said:
7. The robust economic growth post COVID was bouyed by excessive demand. That has tapered down now. So 2020 to 2023 was an aberration. Economy has come back to normal growth rate (~6.3%) now.
So what is contributing to this 6.3% growth rate(hint: look at the formula for GDP and see where the money is coming from)?
Click to expand...

I am sorry, but this is copium again. 'Muh excess demands' cannot explain three years of sustained 7%+ real growth, the base effects are not there anymore.

FY 2024-25 'slowdown' is because of tight fiscpol + tight monpol. The subsequent easing up of monpol, the income tax mela and improvement in high frequency indicators (2w/4w sales, GST figures etc) indicate a broad based recovery since.

And even that 'slowdown' is a result of a high upward revision (revised to 9.2% from 8.2%) in FY 2023-24 figures - else, FY 2024-25 would still edge past 7%.
Kapil said:
8. Also, exactly what reforms led to this "stellar" 6.3% growth? Let's take a focus area which is being talked about the most - Mfg. is lowest as a % of economy in 40-50 years. Big reason - industrialist are not doing Capex. Why? What do they know which you don't know?
Click to expand...

Look, I refrain from commenting on the nitty gritty of defense tech cuz I do not understand mech/electronics/hardware but 50%+ of my posts are on economy on this forum. You will not get anywhere by hiding behind numbers.

The 'manufacturing as a % of the GDP' figure has declined because other sectors have surged faster; not because manufacturing has lost steam etc. In fact, our non petroleum merchandise exports are on steroids right now, literally! In April 2025, some sectors are even witnessing double digit growth. And all this at a time when global trade is undergoing serious stress test and projected to shrink.

So I ask you now, why do you care if services grow faster than manufacturing (and corner a larger % of the GDP) as long as manufacturing keeps growing at a very decent pace?

Kapil said:
All data points.

Now if you tell me GDP is not a number and like Bhutan we should be looking at GNH, I am perfectly fine.
Click to expand...

Cool snarky remark, mate. Too bad it does not work on me. As the resident armchair expert of DFB, I remain obsessed with macro, fisc and monpol.
 
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Couple of things vis a vis India and Pakistan conflict
1. As touted by Pakistani military and journalists alike , there is no parity between India and Pakistan in conventional warfare . We can hit them anytime anywhere we want .
2. Western sector do not require 5th Gen aircrafts . Pakistan geography permits us to hit there infrastructure deep inside their territory so we dont have to cross border , if our air launched missiles can target 500 km inside Pakistan we wouldn't need cross border , maturing our A2A and A2G missiles should be priority wrt western sector , also good will be to have bunker buster which can damaged hardened shelters..
3. Invest on more robust Air defence and BMD .. this will be very crucial in future wars
4. Instead of spending dearly on 5th Aircrafts invest in drone swarms and MALES and HALES.

PS ..these are only for western sector . we would need 5th Gen and other crucial techs for northern sectors..
 
So breaking news coming... just when Pakis were masturbating in full swing about 6-0 fake victory jokes as helped by some IDIOT Binkov (sponsored by the US to put down Rafale and push F-35)... India puts cold water on their dreams. :pound:

Remember how their Defense Minister said they didn't want their locations revealed and let banged by Indian missiles. Now you know why IAF confirmed a bit late that all REAL assets and pilots are safe.

In short... India used LAKSHAY/Banshee Pilotless planes to FOOL JAHIL Pakis and Chinese HQ by the signals similar to Rafales/SU. Later Indian missiles got the targets and destroyed HQ9 and 11 Paki air bases at will. Full details.... below.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8hHnJDnW2w


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jtf7waCI5rM

1747515066374.webp

Meanwhile Pakis below.......... :roflb::roflb: :roflb:

1747515597528.webp
 
Last edited:
Brood Father said:
Couple of things vis a vis India and Pakistan conflict
1. As touted by Pakistani military and journalists alike , there is no parity between India and Pakistan in conventional warfare . We can hit them anytime anywhere we want .
2. Western sector do not require 5th Gen aircrafts . Pakistan geography permits us to hit there infrastructure deep inside their territory so we dont have to cross border , if our air launched missiles can target 500 km inside Pakistan we wouldn't need cross border , maturing our A2A and A2G missiles should be priority wrt western sector , also good will be to have bunker buster which can damaged hardened shelters..
3. Invest on more robust Air defence and BMD .. this will be very crucial in future wars
4. Instead of spending dearly on 5th Aircrafts invest in drone swarms and MALES and HALES.

PS ..these are only for western sector . we would need 5th Gen and other crucial techs for northern sectors..
Click to expand...
Also, it is very important that we stockpile a very large number of compact SRBMs, MRBMs, SRCMs and MRCMs. They will come in handy if we need to raid enemy installations, especially if we do not have desired number of squadrons.
 
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