Operation Sindoor and Aftermath (36 Viewers)

[Gandaberunda]

We could spend the same money to make a lower varient of amca, with tejas mk2 avionics, testing for 2-3 years and production in 2031-2032.

Su57 with indian avionics and other enchantment ain't coming before 2030 into service of iaf.
Though if we're going for it, I hope it's twin seater varient.
And we also sign engine deal for 177s for super sukhoi.

From 270 su30mki to (~100 super sukhoi&~100su57)
Rest 170 su30, be used as standoff platform and other secondary roles until their retirement start around 2035+.

This is for MRFA i guess. Rafale we can’t integrate our weapons French are not willing to integrate ASTRA and delaying despite quoting exorbitant amount because they want to sell meteor.
This is the situation with western fighters and with Russia this issue doesn’t arise and we can integrate our weapons.
Su 57 isn’t replacement of Su30 we are going to upgrade all our Su 30 eventually. Also Putin offered Su57 with super 30 upgrade to India

 

[snakeeyes07]

so many drones in Pakistani airspace—what’s going on? Are they panicking, or are they expecting another Indian strike?

Maybe they got their control center at PAF Murid back up running and are now validating that everything is working.

 

[Varoon4]

Which posters?
It differs from subreddit to subreddit.

I see. The one I saw last fall was totally supportive of Hindus in Bangladesh, and some were ( justifiably) vicious against that country.

 

[shade2]

People here are short sighted. Just because trump and Modi hugged they forgot yankees are friend of none. Russians with all the shortcomings they do offer real deal not backstab once deal is done or threaten us. Glad back then we didn’t cave in to pressure and bought S-400 and now used as per our will in the conflict. Many were saying no need of S400 will attract caatsa sanctions blah blah same now saying no need of Su-57 yankees will sanction us. AMCA is too far and IAF desperately needs a fighter which can stand up to Wumaos J20 or J35 whatever they field and Su57 is the best bet as stop gap and we can keep modifying it as per our needs.

This is for MRFA i guess. Rafale we can’t integrate our weapons French are not willing to integrate ASTRA and delaying despite quoting exorbitant amount because they want to sell meteor.
This is the situation with western fighters and with Russia this issue doesn’t arise and we can integrate our weapons.
Su 57 isn’t replacement of Su30 we are going to upgrade all our Su 30 eventually. Also Putin offered Su57 with super 30 upgrade to India

Aayega to Rafale hi my guy .

The French chindis didn't give TASL the Rafale fuselage contract for a measly 26 planes, more are to come.

Su-57 only khayali pulao for now, the news itself is based on Anonymouse Sources of some CNBCTV18 reporter.

 

[randombully]

upgrade all our Su 30 eventually

No, airframe life matters too.

The ones going for super sukhoi are relatively new airframe.

 

[Gandaberunda]

Aayega to Rafale hi my guy .

The French chindis didn't give TASL the Rafale fuselage contract for a measly 26 planes, more are to come.

Su-57 only khayali pulao for now, the news itself is based on Anonymouse Sources of some CNBCTV18 reporter.

May be. It can be virtue signaling for orange orangutan shenanigans of trade deal before G7.
TASL order for Rafale fuselage is not for Indian Rafales but for global ones as well because of huge backlog Dassault has already. I wish we get more Rafales and take the numbers to 72/96 in IAF inventory.
Also Su57 is the best bet for now for stop gap till AMCA arrives.(induction time line may be same but AMCA is still on paper)

 

[snakeeyes07]

No, airframe life matters too.

The ones going for super sukhoi are relatively new airframe.

I agree that we don't need to upgrade all SU30MKIs, but I am not in favor of retiring them and life extension overhauls should be done on them.

Original SU30MKI comes in handy with it's standoff missile launch (heavy payload) capability:
- Rudram 2
- Rudram 3
- Rudram 4 (I think it got confirmed recently)
- NG
- ROCKS
- Rampage
- Icebreaker

These are only the missiles, they can carry glide and boosted glide bombs too.

 

[Noob_Saibot]

The Su 57 is sounding better and better as we are able to see through the options and the American shenanigans.

Make no mistake, they are not our friends. They consider India and Napakistan similar, which is the biggest insult for India.

The French are no friends either, it's purely a business relationship for them.

Buy 70-80 more Rafale and spend billions begging them for source codes to integrate our weapons. They want to suck us dry, nothing else.

The Russians will sell us the real deal, source codes, local manufacturing, ToT, all of it.

The Su 57 may not be as stealthy or cutting edge as the F35, but we will have full control over it and deploy it when we want.

It will come with goodies such as the most powerful radar in our inventory, peak BVR capabilities (R37m, stop that Pakis)and best in class maneuverability by default and then we make it even more capable like we did with the MKI.

If the US want to pursue sanctions, they will do so at their own peril.

 

[randombully]

I agree that we don't need to upgrade all SU30MKIs, but I am not in favor of retiring them and life extension overhauls should be done on them.

Original SU30MKI comes in handy with it's standoff missile launch (heavy payload) capability:
- Rudram 2
- Rudram 3
- Rudram 4 (I think it got confirmed recently)
- NG
- ROCKS
- Rampage
- Icebreaker

These are only the missiles, they can carry glide and boosted glide bombs too.

Looks like there's a misunderstanding here.

Let's see by 2035 if we have
~100 su57
~100 super sukhoi
~170 su30mki.
Then from 2035+ start retirining the oldest ~80 su30mki slowly like till 2042-2043,
From 2045+ Start retiring rest 80-90 su30mki till 2050+.
From 2060+ start retiring super duper whooper sukhoi 30mki.

At the same time we will be inducting amca, in ahca ~ 2045.

So su30mki will remain standoff platform for decades.

 

[Ajatshatru]

I still don’t understand — Rafales are 4th-generation fighter jets that cost around $280 million each, while the J-35 is a 5th-generation fighter jet costing only $70–80 million. Yet, the world chooses to buy Rafales instead of the J-35. Why is that?

If the era of 4th-generation fighter jets is over, why is Pakistan still buying JF-17? Why not buy J-35 and start phasing out JF-17?

 

[Gandaberunda]

I still don’t understand — Rafales are 4th-generation fighter jets that cost around $280 million each, while the J-35 is a 5th-generation fighter jet costing only $70–80 million. Yet, the world chooses to buy Rafales instead of the J-35. Why is that?

No body trusts Chinese expect those poor countries who can’t afford quality. Also J35 isn’t in production and nobody knows its capabilities except Wumous. Rafale is already in market from over a decade and demonstrated its capabilities kept improving with new version

 

[randombully]

I still don’t understand — Rafales are 4th-generation fighter jets that cost around $280 million each, while the J-35 is a 5th-generation fighter jet costing only $70–80 million. Yet, the world chooses to buy Rafales instead of the J-35. Why is that?

Rafale as a jet cost about ~100-120 million( can be lower If a massive order is given)
Rest all of depends on what package(, weapons, spares etc) is bought, how much country specific enhancements were demanded, how much local production and tot is demanded, in our case we also demanded sophisticated supply chain to maintain good readiness level of rafale.


As for j35, don't go quoting any no. You find on internet.

 

[Noob_Saibot]

I still don’t understand — Rafales are 4th-generation fighter jets that cost around $280 million each, while the J-35 is a 5th-generation fighter jet costing only $70–80 million. Yet, the world chooses to buy Rafales instead of the J-35. Why is that?

Simple, availability.

The Rafale is available now, with all the goodies.

Also the J35 is an unknown quantity.

You can bet there will be orders for the J35 in the next 3-4 orders.

Investing billions in 4th gen platforms while 5th gen ones are available is shortsighted.

 

[shade2]

I still don’t understand — Rafales are 4th-generation fighter jets that cost around $280 million each, while the J-35 is a 5th-generation fighter jet costing only $70–80 million. Yet, the world chooses to buy Rafales instead of the J-35. Why is that?

Chong maal has a reputation of low quality garbage

Mirage -> Rafale and whatever Su-27 derivative Russkies pop out have the reputation of "It just works!"

Fun fact, some Thai official was saying openly that they bought a single Chinese submarine( which hasn't been delivered, sem2sem model as what Pakis are buying ) only for diplomatic purposes, i.e bribing the Chongs.
They also have a Chinese LPD purchased for ofc similar reasons.

 

[snakeeyes07]

Looks like there's a misunderstanding here.

Let's see by 2035 if we have
~100 su57
~100 super sukhoi
~170 su30mki.
Then from 2035+ start retirining the oldest ~80 su30mki slowly like till 2042-2043,
From 2045+ Start retiring rest 80-90 su30mki till 2050+.
From 2060+ start retiring super duper whooper sukhoi 30mki.

At the same time we will be inducting amca, in ahca ~ 2045.

So su30mki will remain standoff platform for decades.

If no SU57, it could be something like ~100 Rafale ~160 Super Sukhoi. Considering the Jaguar experience of Darin upgrades, these many numbers of Super Sukhoi should be achievable.

 

[snakeeyes07]

I still don’t understand — Rafales are 4th-generation fighter jets that cost around $280 million each, while the J-35 is a 5th-generation fighter jet costing only $70–80 million. Yet, the world chooses to buy Rafales instead of the J-35. Why is that?

If the era of 4th-generation fighter jets is over, why is Pakistan still buying JF-17? Why not buy J-35 and start phasing out JF-17?

There is no way J35 costs $70-80 millions.

Just recently, JF17 Blk3 based on Azerbaijan deal has unit price of $115 million.

 

[randombully]

If no SU57, it could be something like ~100 Rafale ~160 Super Sukhoi. Considering the Jaguar experience of Darin upgrades, these many numbers of Super Sukhoi should be achievable.

Knowing fre*ch it's hard to beleive those 100 rafales will be cheaper than 100 su57.
So for extra ~60 will be a problem.

Though if we can achieve( which i highly beleive we can) su35 level rcs reduction( less than 2m2 frontal rcs) then I say fuck rafale "create" 100 super sukhoi from scratch and use russian 177s engine( super cruise), total ~200 super sukhoi, will be the finest non stealth jet in the world.

 

[Ajatshatru]

Simple, availability.

The Rafale is available now, with all the goodies.

Also the J35 is an unknown quantity.

You can bet there will be orders for the J35 in the next 3-4 orders.

Investing billions in 4th gen platforms while 5th gen ones are available is shortsighted.

The biggest reason no wealthy or advanced country buys Chinese military hardware is because it’s low-quality junk. The only ones who buy it are the Pakistanis, because they’re trying to stay in the good books of their Chinese overlords — plus, they usually get it on loans.

 

[Brimstone]

If it were me, i would say finish PNS first. Expensive assets and will take a very long time to recoup losses and build back again. Pakis will become poora nanga from the sea.

No
Finish PAF first. PA and PN won't even dream to launch an offensive without air support.

Removing PAF from the equation early in the war will give you a lot of options. You can stop the conflict there or take your time to finish off PA and PN. If you go after PN first, PAF and PA will cause damage.

SEAD/DEAD > C4I nodes > Air assets

 

[Sanglamorre]

I still don’t understand — Rafales are 4th-generation fighter jets that cost around $280 million each, while the J-35 is a 5th-generation fighter jet costing only $70–80 million. Yet, the world chooses to buy Rafales instead of the J-35. Why is that?

If the era of 4th-generation fighter jets is over, why is Pakistan still buying JF-17? Why not buy J-35 and start phasing out JF-17?

A proven, true 5th gen comparable fighter like F35 cannot cost so much more than the claimed J35. So, first doubt should creep in at that point.